what changed?

[Stattrax]

You need to take a look at the scores in the championship games the last few years. Not many state champions keeping their opponents under 20 points.

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I never once said they where holding opponents under 20. I said that they where playing defense.............................................................................

[SFA85]

The elephant in the room is the advent of the Spread O.  Since 2000, there are a handful of programs which run it properly while all others do a piss poor job of it.  The spread has made defenses soft and drug store cotton.  Also, the child has change to which many stay inside or play sports year around to the point of burnout.  It's sad to me but there it is.  BTW, Thompson and Owens were past their prime.  Stop putting old TJ crap on PAM.  They were good around here but for the exception of TJ 80, couldn't get passed the 1st round......

[Uncle Pig]

So, spending dollars equals more wins?

absolutely!!

[CougarCal]

absolutely!!

if anyone read the Splendora article, one ift he things the coach said was there needed to be an upgrade in the facilities.  They gotta spend more money to upgrade things so when people are moving in to the area, they want to go there.  Location is also a key factor with the job market.  What people fail to realize though, when you get that community because you have the seats in the stadium, the program makes more money so you can hire or keep good coaches because you're bringing in more $$$.  So upgrading, spending money in the facilities especially at the 5-6A level is necessary. 

[robanadana]

 

 

Beg to differ.  Any team that was coached by Doug Ethridge would beat anything going on in this district.  Heck, PN-G couldn't beat Nederland this year.  Even with what was going on with Nederland's poorly coached defense.

Slaughtered. I was alive and well at that time...all 150 lbs. of me. BTW, does that include that MONSTER who plays right tackle for Nederland?Nothing PNG had in 1980 could handle him, nothing. Same as collegiate or pro teams from today vs. the 1970s/80s. Doug Ethridge was a great coach but those kids weren't any bigger or faster than me; I know I competed against them. Our biggest guy was 250 lbs. on offense line and got a full ride to LSU. This was the year that PNG won state, 1975/76. Y'all beat us 26 - 22 and we were down to your 8 yard line when time ran out. No comparison; 2015 Lumberton would run up the score on that team. I'm the one who lives in the real world.

Edited November 24, 2015 by robanadana

[Uncle Pig]

Slaughtered. I was alive and well at that time...all 150 lbs. of me. BTW, does that include that MONSTER who plays right tackle for Nederland?Nothing PNG had in 1980 could handle him, nothing. Same as collegiate or pro teams from today vs. the 1970s/80s. Doug Ethridge was a great coach but those kids weren't any bigger or faster than me; I know I competed against them. Our biggest guy was 250 lbs. on offense line and got a full ride to LSU. This was the year that PNG won state, 1975/76. Y'all beat us 26 - 22 and we were down to your 8 yard line when time ran out. No comparison; 2015 Lumberton would run up the score on that team. I'm the one who lives in the real world.

Absolutely! The speed of the game is on completely different level than it was 20-30 years ago.

[smitty]

absolutely!!

You are joking, right?   How has that fine expensive stadium helped the Beaumont schools?

Edited November 24, 2015 by smitty

[smitty]

Slaughtered. I was alive and well at that time...all 150 lbs. of me. BTW, does that include that MONSTER who plays right tackle for Nederland?Nothing PNG had in 1980 could handle him, nothing. Same as collegiate or pro teams from today vs. the 1970s/80s. Doug Ethridge was a great coach but those kids weren't any bigger or faster than me; I know I competed against them. Our biggest guy was 250 lbs. on offense line and got a full ride to LSU. This was the year that PNG won state, 1975/76. Y'all beat us 26 - 22 and we were down to your 8 yard line when time ran out. No comparison; 2015 Lumberton would run up the score on that team. I'm the one who lives in the real world.

You are correct.  The difference was the coach! 

[Mr. Buddy Garrity]

if anyone read the Splendora article, one ift he things the coach said was there needed to be an upgrade in the facilities.  They gotta spend more money to upgrade things so when people are moving in to the area, they want to go there.  Location is also a key factor with the job market.  What people fail to realize though, when you get that community because you have the seats in the stadium, the program makes more money so you can hire or keep good coaches because you're bringing in more $$$.  So upgrading, spending money in the facilities especially at the 5-6A level is necessary. 

+1000

[Uncle Pig]

You are joking, right?   How has that fine expensive stadium helped the Beaumont schools?

The same way that all those dfw schools with indoors and apparel deals with nike and underarmour are all winning state titles. I can think of many examples of schools building super nice stadiums that struggle. its what you do about your facilities on campus...what kind of weight room do you have, do you have an indoor, how much $ do you pay your head coach, what kind of home life do the kids parents have, etc. 

[Uncle Pig]

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[Goblin]

A team like png won state championships at the highest level. Other golden triangle teams were in the mix year after year in the 70s and 80s.

 

what has happened to change that dynamic?

are the other teams just better than they used to be? Did the setx towns lose their population? Athletes not what they used to be? Coaching?

anyone want to weigh in?

From my perspective watching it all happen over the past 35 years I've seen several things occur.  First of all, both Port Arthur and Beaumont used to be in the Top 10 in population of all cities in Texas, meaning the schools were relatively much bigger and had greater depth compared to the rest of the state. Now neither is anywhere close to having the number of kids to pull from to have the relative depth they used to have.  Secondly, the economy in SE Texas has gone down the drain in addition to having two major hurricanes devastate the area.  Thirdly, from about 1974 through 1988 the area was just lucky enough to have multiple teams peak at the same time in regards to the talent they had.  PNG, West Brook, Hebert, French, WOS all won titles with TJ making it to the finals. If you look before that pretty much once every 10 years a school would have a good run.  TJ had a good run about once per decade dating back to the 1920's,  PNG and Nederland both had a run there in the 1950's.  Bridge City had their run in the '60s. I don't see any reason why an area team couldn't get back there again soon.  A lot of it just has to do with luck of the draw.  Since 1998 we've had PNG and WOS both make the state finals in the largest two classifications, just no-one has been able to bring it home.  I don't think there's any one innate thing to blame and I see no reason why the area couldn't have another great run like we did 40-30 years ago.

Edited November 25, 2015 by Goblin

[Mr. Buddy Garrity]

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@dallasnews: Perot’s Hillwood Communities plans $500 million project in town of Celina

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Get ready for more growth in Celina 

[RaiderRed30]

@dallasnews: Perot’s Hillwood Communities plans $500 million project in town of Celina

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Get ready for more growth in Celina 

That won't be Celina. The community is zoned to Prosper. It would be a new school. I would hold my breath until they actually start building it.

[Mr. Buddy Garrity]

That won't be Celina. The community is zoned to Prosper. It would be a new school. I would hold my breath until they actually start building it.

growing like crazy up there, I remember when all that area was open land. 

[RaiderRed30]

growing like crazy up there, I remember when all that area was open land. 

Frisco opened up its 2nd school in 03 and now they are planning #11. All have around 1800-2000. Prosper is booming. McKinney. Lovejoy. I just don't trust these communities because in between Aledo and Fort Worth they were planning a huge development on Walsh Ranch since the early 2000s and they just last year started to build the first overpass for the main road.

[Uncle Pig]

PS -- How about that fine stadium that Beaumont has.  How has that worked out for the Beaumont teams?  Wasted tax dollars on fine stadiums do not educate one chil

Facts will lead some to drink!   

The teams of today are just so much bigger, faster, and stronger than any team from the 70's-80's, from high school all the way to the pros. There's no way possible that 1980 PNG is beating today's PNG. As a matter of fact, 2015 PNG would beat 1980 PNG by several scores.

[NHSBulldogFan]

A team like png won state championships at the highest level. Other golden triangle teams were in the mix year after year in the 70s and 80s.

 

what has happened to change that dynamic?

are the other teams just better than they used to be? Did the setx towns lose their population? Athletes not what they used to be? Coaching?

anyone want to weigh in?

I think its a mix between coaching and talent...For example Doug Ethridge was a winning head coach before he was at PNG, He was at Dalhart from 1960-1963 leading them to the Quarterfinals in 1961 and the Semi-Finals in 1963, He then lead Monahans to the State Semi-Finals in 1966. He later won a state title in Hobbs New Mexico before he was at PNG, Ethridge got the best out of his players.Then there's Alex Durley and Dan Hooks they were good coaches with talent who also got the best out of their players. I was once told by a state championship winning coach many years ago that in order to win state not only do you have to have talent you have to have the ability to dig deep into the playbook to beat teams at that point in the playoffs. I don't think facilities have anything to do with winning at the state level, if that were the case Newton and Burkeville would have never won state titles.

[Goblin]

I think its a mix between coaching and talent...For example Doug Ethridge was a winning head coach before he was at PNG, He was at Dalhart from 1960-1963 leading them to the Quarterfinals in 1961 and the Semi-Finals in 1963, He then lead Monahans to the State Semi-Finals in 1966. He later won a state title in Hobbs New Mexico before he was at PNG, Ethridge got the best out of his players.Then there's Alex Durley and Dan Hooks they were good coaches with talent who also got the best out of their players. I was once told by a state championship winning coach many years ago that in order to win state not only do you have to have talent you have to have the ability to dig deep into the playbook to beat teams at that point in the playoffs. I don't think facilities have anything to do with winning at the state level, if that were the case Newton and Burkeville would have never won state titles.

Lower classification schools are completely different.  Once you get to smaller 4A and lower you start getting players playing both ways. Depth disappears, and defense STILL wins championships.  Look over all the scores from 2A through 4A and see how many shutouts there were.  The major factor at that point is keeping everyone healthy and of course good coaching and luck of the draw with the players you happen to have.  WOS is right on that cusp where they don't have to worry about a shootout with any team other than bigger schools i.e. Silsbee and can pretty much shut down any school their size or smaller.  For the larger schools they can keep their cards in their vest and pull a surprise out that no one has ever seen.  WOS ran into that with Ennis and the spread in 2000.

Edited November 25, 2015 by Goblin

[Uncle Pig]

I think its a mix between coaching and talent...For example Doug Ethridge was a winning head coach before he was at PNG, He was at Dalhart from 1960-1963 leading them to the Quarterfinals in 1961 and the Semi-Finals in 1963, He then lead Monahans to the State Semi-Finals in 1966. He later won a state title in Hobbs New Mexico before he was at PNG, Ethridge got the best out of his players.Then there's Alex Durley and Dan Hooks they were good coaches with talent who also got the best out of their players. I was once told by a state championship winning coach many years ago that in order to win state not only do you have to have talent you have to have the ability to dig deep into the playbook to beat teams at that point in the playoffs. I don't think facilities have anything to do with winning at the state level, if that were the case Newton and Burkeville would have never won state titles.

it's been a long time since Newton or Burkeville have won a state title. As a matter of fact, it's been just as long since a team from setx has won a state title. That to me is a prime example of setx not keeping up with the rest of the state when it comes to facilities and what not. I mean what's another explanation for setx not winning a state title in over 10 years? the game of football has changed tremendously over the past 10-20 years 

Edited November 25, 2015 by Uncle Pig

[smitty]

The teams of today are just so much bigger, faster, and stronger than any team from the 70's-80's, from high school all the way to the pros. There's no way possible that 1980 PNG is beating today's PNG. As a matter of fact, 2015 PNG would beat 1980 PNG by several scores.

Again -- beg to differ.  The difference would be the coaching.  How many State Championships has this coach won?  Heck, I'll make it easy for you:  How many has he participated in as head coach?

Edited November 25, 2015 by smitty

[Uncle Pig]

Again -- beg to differ.  The difference would be the coaching.  How many State Championships has this coach won?  Heck, I'll make it easy for you:  How many has he participated in as head coach?

Who cares???? Look at the players on the roster of a 1980 team, any team. Lots of undersized, slow, weak guys all over the field. Fast forward to 2015...Big, fast, strong players everywhere. So you're going to sit there and tell me that a bunch of 150 pound weak as 3 day old piss players are going to beat a bunch of 200 pound well fed, well conditioned, strong as hell/fast as hell players that have had the best in strength training over the duration of their career??? You obviously don't have a clue

[Uncle Pig]

As as a matter of fact, find out who the 1985 5A state champ was. I don't know like Plano or someone like that. Hell it doesn't matter...2015 West Orange Stark would beat them by 4 scores. That's how far the training and conditioning of football players has come in the past 25-30 years. 

[smitty]

Who cares???? Look at the players on the roster of a 1980 team, any team. Lots of undersized, slow, weak guys all over the field. Fast forward to 2015...Big, fast, strong players everywhere. So you're going to sit there and tell me that a bunch of 150 pound weak as 3 day old piss players are going to beat a bunch of 200 pound well fed, well conditioned, strong as hell/fast as hell players that have had the best in strength training over the duration of their career??? You obviously don't have a clue

Good answer!  LOL!!

[NHSBulldogFan]

As as a matter of fact, find out who the 1985 5A state champ was. I don't know like Plano or someone like that. Hell it doesn't matter...2015 West Orange Stark would beat them by 4 scores. That's how far the training and conditioning of football players has come in the past 25-30 years. 

i think 1985 yates would do just fine against 2015 wos they were really good

Edited November 25, 2015 by NHSBulldogFan