The Cook

[quote name="FanintheStands" post="962830" timestamp="1297185976"] [quote author=Riding Solo link=topic=79841.msg962824#msg962824 date=1297184960] Yes, the Orangefield girls lost to Navasota in OT. Don't remember about the boys. I believe they also lost to Navasota but don't think it was in OT. I know the boys beat Coldspring in bi-district. My point is Orangefield boys basketball program has gotten better but they are not close to the level hardin jefferson is. [/quote]I seem to recall coming back from a game up the country and dropping off to see the last quarter of the OF - Navasota game.  I remember being surprised at how close it was.  It was like I was wondering if I was watching the same Orangefield team that we played in district. P.S.  And it sure wasn't the same Orangefield team that I grew up hating in the early 80's!  ;) [/quote] Peveto Nation was alive & well in the late 70's to early 80's. They had unbelieveably tough teams in those years with Coach Peveto @ the helm.

[quote name="BLUEDOVE3" post="962487" timestamp="1297118948"] I think teams should take out their starters with a 30 point lead and put in the reserves. But that doesn't mean you don't stop coaching to get your reserves the game experience. If we're a trapping team I don't think its wise to sit back and play zone. You still work on your trap defense and try and steal the ball. And I'm sure the bench players wanted to show what they could do in a game situation to earn more playing time. Hopefully the PNG team kept playing best in a losing situation. [/quote] I'm with you, Dove. But when you start subbing & your 2nd or 3rd teamers can still score & advance the lead.....then so be it. You can't tell kids that only play a couple of minutes a game or week or season for that matter to " just play zone".

[quote name="WOSgrad" post="962727" timestamp="1297176591"] EC wins 65-47 [/quote] What has happened @ Buna? Don't know if they are getting in the playoffs but if they do, don't think they will make it far.

[quote name="BLUEDOVE3" post="962739" timestamp="1297177605"] [quote author=uknowit2 link=topic=79925.msg962728#msg962728 date=1297176651] Got out the calculator and it's closer to 10 points...but who's counting. [/quote]Worse than it really was  :D [/quote] Tomato...Tomatoe

[quote name="nuthinbutnet" post="962726" timestamp="1297176554"] True Blue, they will not let you sit behind the bench. The visitors must sit in the bleachers on the opposite side, while the home fans get the seats behind the benches. You will notice the people that stand directly behind the visitor bench and say all kinds of foul mess. I assure you, you have not seen anything like it before. Keep an eye on the Leggett coach as he is as bad or worse than the fans. My suggestion is that Evadale trys to rise above it and keep cool as this is what they live for. [/quote] Doesn't Evadale travel with a police officer? Have them sit in the bench area like all other schools....just sayin'

[quote name="FanintheStands" post="962642" timestamp="1297141258"] [quote author=Riding Solo link=topic=79841.msg962632#msg962632 date=1297140110] Let me rephase what I said, the team from Orangefield I mentioned before had more talent but the team from 2005 who made the playoffs, set the record for most wins in a season, had less talent then the teams in the past, played as a "TEAM" and that is why they won. By the way the team from 2005 did not win many games in junior high or subvarsity. They key was they kept working hard and proved all the non believers wrong.   [/quote]What about the 2008 team that lost to Navasota in the play-offs... in overtime I think.  Navasota ended up losing to HJ only by a last second put in (think Nederland's K Smith against PNG).  HJ made it to the Regional Finals and lost to Silsbee. That OF team had good fundamentals, great discipline and patience as well.  [/quote] OF girls

[quote name="whsalum" post="957164" timestamp="1296311677"] These two groups need to set down and hash out their differences ,elect a qualified board and put all this mess behind them.One thing is evident and that is this split is hurting both chapters but more importantly is hurting the game.Come on guys there are far too many good officials around here to put folks on the floor who aren't ready to call varsity games. [/quote] There is no doubt that both chapters know what (who) needs to be done (gone). Its called Zero Integrity. He is a JOKE!!!!!!!

[quote name="trueblue75" post="958095" timestamp="1296504536"] [quote author=Wildcatter link=topic=79473.msg957038#msg957038 date=1296277294] Please do us all a favor and figure out a way to put people on the floor that at least have a clue as to how to call a game.  Thus far this season you have been a JOKE with the majority of your chapter.  I have kids in the chapter who are doing a better job than the majority of your varsity officials.  I will personally send you the game tonight from the OF/WOS game so that you can see what a pathetic excuse of a crew that you had tonight.  Beginning with the opening minute where the short white official blew a call up until the call where he called a charge on the wrong kid he is a disgrace.  I have watched him call at least 6 times this season for various schools and he has yet to have a clue what the heck he is doing.  If this is the best that youu can offer then you should not be a cease as a chapter and we should try another source for refs.  You are not there to take a over a game, your job is to officiate it.  I hope to find the name of that crew so that all might see the level of incompetence.    [/quote] Oh my gosh...AGREE AGREE AGREE!!! It's a total joke...on ALL levels!! Maybe Kelly Basketball needs to read this so he realizes I'm not the only one calling out the awful so called officiating!! He just thinks I'm a whiny parent but as we all have witnessed, there is definite cause for concern!!! Thank you!!! [/quote] Uh...that would be the Beaumont UIL chapter not TASO. You know....the chapter that Wildcatter is a member of.

[quote name="Wildcatter" post="957306" timestamp="1296329273"] My son just called with part of the crew from last night at a little dribbler game.  BTW, probably a good place for him.  He even commented that they just were not on there game last night.  How can a crew not be on their game?  You watch the game and officiate, just incredible.  Don't they evaluate in football after each game?  Should do in basketball, even if it means 2 man crew, better that than a guy who feels obligated to blow his whistle.  Get the best officials back on the floor.  Make them attend the training during the year, there is no requirement to even have to attend just so long as you pay the dues.  We have good talent in the chapter maybe we the leadership needs to do better job of developing the rest.  it is not gonna happen until the coaches decide that they have had enough. [/quote] Which chapter are referring to?

[quote name="SB" post="939678" timestamp="1293682823"] Marquis Saveat [/quote]  ::)

[quote name="BMTSoulja1" post="956925" timestamp="1296271697"] Wow!  That's the same way the Indians lost to my Jags... On a last second tip in with the game tied. IMO, I think it was a great idea to let Ned hold for the last shot.  You let your defense determin the outome of the game.  It sound like it worked just as the PN-G coach planned...  Except sounds like the Indian team got caught with their mouths open and forgot to box out, which cost them the game.  How could you not find one of the star players at this time?  You knew they would crash the boardds.. [/quote] Sums it up pretty well. Great Post!!!!!!!

[quote name="Cat22" post="957473" timestamp="1296354220"] If a player on defense call for a time out while play is going, is that a technical foul? [/quote] This should be ignored by the game officials, however if the game is stopped erroneously for this purpose by any official then the time-out is granted as this is not a correctable error.

Why wouldn't any good coach try to arouse the interest of scouts for his players sake? What better way to say " I'm the greatest coach ever" than to have your players leave your program for a scholarship @ the next level.

[quote name="TEARDROP" post="956450" timestamp="1296236464"] [quote author=Lt. Dangle link=topic=79210.msg956438#msg956438 date=1296235675] [quote author=TEARDROP link=topic=79210.msg956409#msg956409 date=1296233391] [quote author=Lt. Dangle link=topic=79210.msg956408#msg956408 date=1296233260] [quote author=TEARDROP link=topic=79210.msg956403#msg956403 date=1296233127] [quote author=Lt. Dangle link=topic=79210.msg956396#msg956396 date=1296232561] [quote author=TEARDROP link=topic=79210.msg955913#msg955913 date=1296160150] once again point proven...its not attitude... its heart!!! some girls are out there just to be out there. but, when you see a player who can play and play hard, and people, such as yourself discouraging her by saying bad things. it makes a difference.  its comes from opposing players, opposing fans, and opposing refs.  you sound like a parent or coach that she has come up against... and smoked your team or player.  you probably wish she was on your team!!!!  get a grip!! :o [/quote] TEARDROP, didn't you & your daughter get ejected from a game this year? If so, then it kinda tears down the house you are building. [/quote] i dont know where you are getting your info from...she got a technical... i have never been ejected from a game.  get your information correct!!! [/quote] I got it straight from Miss Linton ( the horse's mouth) [/quote] well you tell that horse she is wrong!!! [/quote] Sorry, but that "horse" also had the UIL incident report!!!! I would now change the subject probably [/quote] well when you see that UIL incident report and see where i was put out of a game. any game period,  you let me see that!! and tell that horse that i will get with the ad for showing that information to you. now if my daughter did, i was not there!!! and once again, you are off the subject!!! [/quote] So its all coming back to you now with the mention of a certain Athletic Director. Hmmmmmm!!!

[quote name="TEARDROP" post="956409" timestamp="1296233391"] [quote author=Lt. Dangle link=topic=79210.msg956408#msg956408 date=1296233260] [quote author=TEARDROP link=topic=79210.msg956403#msg956403 date=1296233127] [quote author=Lt. Dangle link=topic=79210.msg956396#msg956396 date=1296232561] [quote author=TEARDROP link=topic=79210.msg955913#msg955913 date=1296160150] once again point proven...its not attitude... its heart!!! some girls are out there just to be out there. but, when you see a player who can play and play hard, and people, such as yourself discouraging her by saying bad things. it makes a difference.  its comes from opposing players, opposing fans, and opposing refs.  you sound like a parent or coach that she has come up against... and smoked your team or player.  you probably wish she was on your team!!!!  get a grip!! :o [/quote] TEARDROP, didn't you & your daughter get ejected from a game this year? If so, then it kinda tears down the house you are building. [/quote] i dont know where you are getting your info from...she got a technical... i have never been ejected from a game.  get your information correct!!! [/quote] I got it straight from Miss Linton ( the horse's mouth) [/quote] well you tell that horse she is wrong!!! [/quote] Sorry, but that "horse" also had the UIL incident report!!!! I would now change the subject probably

[quote name="TEARDROP" post="956403" timestamp="1296233127"] [quote author=Lt. Dangle link=topic=79210.msg956396#msg956396 date=1296232561] [quote author=TEARDROP link=topic=79210.msg955913#msg955913 date=1296160150] once again point proven...its not attitude... its heart!!! some girls are out there just to be out there. but, when you see a player who can play and play hard, and people, such as yourself discouraging her by saying bad things. it makes a difference.  its comes from opposing players, opposing fans, and opposing refs.  you sound like a parent or coach that she has come up against... and smoked your team or player.  you probably wish she was on your team!!!!  get a grip!! :o [/quote] TEARDROP, didn't you & your daughter get ejected from a game this year? If so, then it kinda tears down the house you are building. [/quote] i dont know where you are getting your info from...she got a technical... i have never been ejected from a game.  get your information correct!!! [/quote] I got it straight from Miss Linton ( the horse's mouth)

[quote name="TEARDROP" post="955913" timestamp="1296160150"] once again point proven...its not attitude... its heart!!! some girls are out there just to be out there. but, when you see a player who can play and play hard, and people, such as yourself discouraging her by saying bad things. it makes a difference.  its comes from opposing players, opposing fans, and opposing refs.  you sound like a parent or coach that she has come up against... and smoked your team or player.  you probably wish she was on your team!!!!  get a grip!! :o [/quote] TEARDROP, didn't you & your daughter get ejected from a game this year? If so, then it kinda tears down the house you are building.

[quote name="MoFo" post="955649" timestamp="1296137788"] here is a link that will explain the call. This discussion invokes Men’s NCAA Rules and CCA Mechanics. [Hidden Content] [/quote] That's the NCAA rule!!!!!!

[quote name="DVILLE-GORILLA" post="955768" timestamp="1296148100"] [quote author=Lt. Dangle link=topic=78978.msg954251#msg954251 date=1295979275] [quote author=48newyorker link=topic=78978.msg954219#msg954219 date=1295977286] Much that has been said is NOT true. However, everthing that has been said is NOT UNTRUE. All of you have hit on some issues we as referees are concerned about. First, We do not have an abundance of seasoned officials ready to step in and call "big" games. A "big" game could be a 1A game with the right ingredients. We do have less seasoned refs in 1A games generally because of the lack of good, experienced refs along with all the other classes we serve. Calling ballgames is actually easier than you give us credit for. In fact, as you continue to referee the game "slows" down a bit as you become more aware of what all is going on around you. The big key is for us to keep refs around long enough for them to mature as officials. When we send 1st thru 3rd year refs to do Jr. High and sub varsity games it is not easy to here from fans, coaches and players (and commentors on web sites ;)) what an idiot you are for not calling everything YOU see from the stands. I have never met a basketball referee who wasn't a fan of the game before they became a referee. You are correct that fans see things from the stands that we can't see. However, for the most part, it is better for the guy on the floor to have the whistle. We will NEVER get ALL calls right in any game. We strive to "manage" a game by interupting the flow as rarely as we can. That sometimes means if a player shuffles their feet a little but did NOT gain an ADVANTAGE by doing so we may not call a traveling violation. The hardest thing for a fan to understand is the concept of ADVANTAGE - DISADVANTAGE. The next time you see a play you think should have been called but was not: Ask yourself this question: Did the player gain an ILLEGAL advantage by their action? If there was an illegal advantange then the ref should have called a violation. Lastly, After each of our games (varsity & sub vastiy) the caoches have the opportunity to grade each of their officails in several key catagories. We do have accountability from the ones that matter most! The coach! If you're interested in joining us please contact our local chapter...409-840-6914 [/quote] Is this the chapter that wears grey jerseys? [/quote]LT, you had me won over until your statement concerning Advantage!  If a player travels according to the rule book, then it's sure ADVANTAGEOUS for the other team to get the ball hence stoping the player guilty of traveling (shuffle) from scoring or assisting in a score that trip down the court.  Why not forget the 3 second lane violation, if no ones paying him any attention then theres no advatage, he's just standing there.  (until the guy that got away with traveling hits him with a pass and he scores) [/quote] Thanks, Gorilla

[quote name="TEARDROP" post="955227" timestamp="1296074601"] for your information... she is not the only one who shoots the ball.  it is a team effort.  one player can not guard five.  and when you are a senior you should shine, not sit the bench like probably your daughter's do!!!   plus, you have the scouts out looking also!!! get a grip you two stop hating.  that's why our girls are hardly ever recognized in southeast texas because no one wants to give the acknowledgement.  its all about the boys down here in southeast texas.  and when someone reads about how another person downs a girl basketball player, they form a damaging opinion.  spread love not hate!!! [/quote] Well TEARDROP, my daughter is a starter on a 3A team (that is state-ranked) so not much bench time for her. On the other hand I have scoured the TAPPS poll all year long & have yet to see your daughter's team....maybe that's why your girls are hardly ever recognized in SE Texas. Hope I didn't make the TEARDROPS hit the floor!!!

[quote name="TEARDROP" post="954347" timestamp="1295987483"] central's (thomas) and kelly's (arion) are first cousin's...runs in the family.  just wanted know how many seniors are out there. all everyone talks about is underclassmen.  [/quote] That does it!!!!! I'mvoting for my daughter, too.

[quote name="48newyorker" post="954403" timestamp="1295992738"] I appreciate all your input and will put it in my memory bank. You are all correct: a walk is a walk and a foul is a foul. I could probably have used a better example than shuffling feet. Remeber this: a referee is there to apply the rules, when necessary, to prevent one team from gaining an illegal advantage over an opponent. [b]This is a statement in the Rules of Basketball (NFHS) just above where Rule number 1 begins:[/b] "[b]The Intent and Purpose of the Rules"[/b] The restrictions which the rules place upon the players are intended to create a balance of play; to provide equal opportunity between the offense and the defense; to provide equal opportunity between the small player and the tall player; to provide reasonable safety and protection; to create an atmosphere of sporting behavior and fair play; and to emphisize cleverness and skill without unduly limiting freedom of action of individual or team play on either offense or defense. Therefore, it is important to know the [b]intent and purpose [/b] of a rule so that it may be intelligently applied in each play situation. A player or team should not be permitted an advantage which is NOT intended by a rule. Neither should play be permitted to develop which may lead to placing a player at a disadvantage NOT intended by a rule. It is the policy of the NFHS Basketball Rule Committee that there be no deviation from the rules unless experimental approval has been granted by the NFHS. (This is word-for-word from the 2010-2011 rule book). If you read that carefully you now understand that EVERYTHING is about not letting one individual or team gain an advantage NOT intended in the rule. Even in my bad example---if the kid shuffles his feet a little, 60 feet from the rim and it doesn't put the other team at a disadvantage (intent of the rule) no call. However, if same kid is being closely guarded even 1 ft inside the opponents baseline and shuffles his feet in an effort to fake out their guy to get by them then you would have a player gaining advantage by walking and it is a violation (he gained advantage). Younger officials and fans often want to call or have called every little thing that happens but the committee has tried to make it clear the intent is far greater than the action. I don't ecpect to have all you in agreeement with every call you see an official make. I don't even agree with all the ones I make...yes I know when I blow a call I'm just greatful to have the fans and coaches to keep me from doing it too often :D To answer another ? that came through...I'm a gray shirt. [/quote]   I'm sorry to hear that.

[quote name="TEARDROP" post="954254" timestamp="1295979473"] i vote for the senior player #20 at kelly high school. plays every position on the team.  average this year is 30pts a game with 15 rebounds to add on [/quote] Also known as "your daughter". Good one!!!!!

[quote name="48newyorker" post="954219" timestamp="1295977286"] Much that has been said is NOT true. However, everthing that has been said is NOT UNTRUE. All of you have hit on some issues we as referees are concerned about. First, We do not have an abundance of seasoned officials ready to step in and call "big" games. A "big" game could be a 1A game with the right ingredients. We do have less seasoned refs in 1A games generally because of the lack of good, experienced refs along with all the other classes we serve. Calling ballgames is actually easier than you give us credit for. In fact, as you continue to referee the game "slows" down a bit as you become more aware of what all is going on around you. The big key is for us to keep refs around long enough for them to mature as officials. When we send 1st thru 3rd year refs to do Jr. High and sub varsity games it is not easy to here from fans, coaches and players (and commentors on web sites ;)) what an idiot you are for not calling everything YOU see from the stands. I have never met a basketball referee who wasn't a fan of the game before they became a referee. You are correct that fans see things from the stands that we can't see. However, for the most part, it is better for the guy on the floor to have the whistle. We will NEVER get ALL calls right in any game. We strive to "manage" a game by interupting the flow as rarely as we can. That sometimes means if a player shuffles their feet a little but did NOT gain an ADVANTAGE by doing so we may not call a traveling violation. The hardest thing for a fan to understand is the concept of ADVANTAGE - DISADVANTAGE. The next time you see a play you think should have been called but was not: Ask yourself this question: Did the player gain an ILLEGAL advantage by their action? If there was an illegal advantange then the ref should have called a violation. Lastly, After each of our games (varsity & sub vastiy) the caoches have the opportunity to grade each of their officails in several key catagories. We do have accountability from the ones that matter most! The coach! If you're interested in joining us please contact our local chapter...409-840-6914 [/quote] Is this the chapter that wears grey jerseys?

[quote name="blah123" post="954214" timestamp="1295976797"] "I witnessed one of our girls simply rip the ball away from a[b] Hardin [/b] girl the other night because she was stronger - I am sure lifting had nothing to do with that. " and this happened when? [/quote] Need I remind you of the Lionel Richie hit single," All Night Long"