LumRaiderFan

Nothing to be done about Grace...it's a gift...no works required. What you're not getting is that if you are truly saved, the works and following of the Commandments will follow, but they are not a requirement to be saved...that is a free gift through Grace. Your sins are washed away by the Blood of Christ...not water. Baptism is a symbol of you dying to yourself and rising in Christ...doesn't save you. I will ask again...do you believe, like many Church of Christs believe, that you must be Saved and Baptized within the Church of Christ to go to Heaven? Simple question...yes or no. I was actually told this so I need some clarification.

Romans 10:9 9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. Nothing about Baptism requirements. Wonder why it doesn't say whoever does not believe and get baptized will be condemned in Mark 16:16? So answer the question...are Baptists, Methodists Saved or must they be Saved and Baptized in the Church of Christ...is that your belief.

So is it your belief that someone must be Saved and Baptized within the Church of Christ to go to Heaven?

I already have. Romans 10:9 C1, you are Church of Christ, correct?

The moment you accept Christ into you heart, you are saved. You should follow with Baptism as a public display of your acceptance of Christ, but that won't keep you out of Heaven. That would make a deathbed confession null and void.

Like I told C1, if what you are doing is working...carry on. Question...are you Church of Christ?

What are you talking about...that is not what I said.

The ignorance lies with folks like you that refuse to believe the GOP is it's own worst enemy. Did the Tea party pick John McCain or Mitt Romney...no. And Silver was blindsided and completely wrong about Trump...thought he would be a flash in the pan and go away.

We hold each other accountable as Christians...I'm talking about how we talk to non-believers. Point out all the things you see wrong with someone as a non-believer and see how long they keep listening.

My argument isn't with you or God...all I am saying is I have seen how you have talked to what seems to be non-believers... "try again, though....I love sharpening my skills in debates with you atheists and agnostics..... " and if I were them it would make me want to have no part in any Church you were involved in. Remember, you have to get them in the door first...you have a good day, if these tactics are working for you and folks are flocking to your Church, carry on.

lol...no, I'm not calling you drama queenish...I'm saying the "end of the world / party over" scenarios you threw out if either Clinton or Trump are elected are. I don't need to wait until November to see the damage the establishment has done to the party...I been watching it for a while. By the way, whether you take my opinion over anyone else's makes no difference to me. But I'm curious, how accurate was Silver about Trump's success?

I am not going to argue this with you on a forum (you do know we are not to do that either, right?) I will just point out the Scripture I put up, Roman 10:9 is very clear, people are the ones that pile on extra stuff and become legalistic. The "believe in your heart" is where it starts and if you truly believe, you will follow along with the rest. Do I believe you should be baptized...absolutely...if you aren't baptized, will that keep you from going to Heaven if you are saved...nope. Pretty sure the thief on the Cross never got baptized.

Clinton over Trump...wow...and all the reasons you give are kinda drama queenish...and 2016 is the end on the Republican party if Clinton is elected...OK I have been seeing polls for many years that were wrong by the so called experts, so that sure doesn't sell me on Rubio's success, especially when he has done so poorly, so no way Rubio. And don't blame the Tea Party for what the establishment has done to itself.

Didn't leave them out...they are WORKS that will follow. Romans 10:9 is very clear...and I will add that Christians berating folks about this is a major turn off to non-believers.

Being saved is as simple as this: Romans 10:9 9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. The problem is we (people) come along and mess it up...thank God for Grace.

We'll never know but no way Rubio would have ever won the general. As far as the Tea party and the GOP, the long time establishment leaders in the GOP for the most part have never been fans of the Tea Party...it is a threat to them because they sure can't have any rabble rousers in there that won't compromise (give the Dems 90% of what they want) There is no way I can ever prove this (or you disprove it) but the establishment GOP would rather have Clinton win than Trump or Cruz...at least if Clinton wins, the good old boy system stays in place and they simply have to have a smaller piece of the pie for a while, and if they keep pushing out guys like McCain and Romney, it may be a good while.

Lol...good luck with that on here.

Agree...I don't agree with what many Presidents have done, but unlike Obama, they were doing it because they loved their country and were doing what they thought was the right thing.

So bamatex, how should this election have gone, in your opinion, and who should be the nominee. If this person were popular enough to win the nominee, you would think they could beat someone like Trump within their own party while most couldn't get out of single digits in votes. Why won't the establishment back Cruz and why did they dislike the Tea Party so much when it was gaining so much popularity. I'll give my opinion...the establishment is threatened with losing their power and influence because if Trump or the Tea Party succeeds, they are afraid too much power will be taken from them and returned to the people...God forbid. Trump is gathering support from many of the same folks that supported the Tea Party, those that are ticked off by the poor handling and candidate choices the GOP have backed (and gotten thumped with)...however, I do realize he is getting much support from the reality TV crowd. Am I a Trump fan…heck no. He sounds like a fifth grader when he starts talking about folks in his speeches and there is nothing Presidential about him. But the bottom line is the GOP should realize they are the cause of Trump’s (and the Tea Party's) success and it is their fault that we are in this mess. So back to my original question…who, in your opinion, can beat Trump and why AND why have they been so unsuccessful within their own nominee process? Please keep answers as short as possible, and no illustrations required...lol.

You mean like the right wingers McCain and Romney...lol.

Agree...the GOP, however, doesn't.

You addressed y'all (plural) so I jumped in...and it is a public forum. You and I probably have a close opinion of Trump as the nominee...neither would like to see him there. My main point is that Trump's success is directly related to the GOP's failure to back/produce a decent candidate and folks are tired of it. I have actually worked on a campaign (phones) many years ago...talking Texans into coming out to vote for a conservative back then was pretty boring.

Don't kid yourself...the establishment you seem to be so fond of is digging this grave....I haven't contributed to any of it, I didn't vote for Trump. Trump is only taking advantage or their poor management of the party. You do know you can "study" and understand the political environment without a classroom, right?

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The establishment hasn't been behind a winner in quite a while...now they can't even pick one that can get the Republican nomination.