MIF04

I, too, agree that whether you are 1A or 5A, that doesn't answer the question.  For example, one in my 'top' list is 2A -- Braeden Riley from Woodville.  Also, look at the debate on another thread about best CF...2 of the top 3 are 3A players.  A good player is a good player no matter the school size.

With that being said, I do agree with who wg88pitcher thinks are the top 2...I'm just not sure I agree with the reasoning.  They're the tops because...well, they're the tops.

Why do you think that Schooling, Calhoun and Hargrave have not recieved any offers from anyone???

That is a good question and has (probably) several answers.

One may have something to do with exposure.  In today's world, you have to go to them, not the other way around, unless you are 'off the charts' special.  Throw a 95 mph fastball and they'll find you.

Second, it is a hard time of the year to be recruited.  Most colleges are in the middle of their conference season and their time is more limited.  You will see a fair number of people signed as the HS and college season winds down and after the draft (college loses a junior to the draft and, all of the sudden, that school has more money to offer).

Third, you have to look at the player.  Schooling, for example, is an extremely productive HS pitcher but may not have the velocity that draws a lot of interest from D-1 programs.  A very productive HS player may be just that...but not project out at the next or higher level.  I think Schooling and Calhoun will play somewhere after HS, I just don't know at what level.  I really don't know enough about Hargrave to comment beyond he is a good high school catcher.  That's not a knock...its just evidence of my lack of information.

First to adress the '5 tool player' you are correct the minors do have some '5 tool players' BUT not many TRUE 5 tool players, the one that comes to mind is Josh Hamilton (1st pk) who was a pitcher in HS with a + fastball and the other tools not many others have. From what I have been told by both MLB scouts and their crosscheckers, it depends on whos doing the rating. As far as signing with a major JUCO, I know for a fact if a highly rated player signs with a D1 only, it more or less says he's not signable and therefore most MLB clubs won't waste a pick on someone they think is not signable. Clubs have been burnt on this several times, another that comes to mind here is Beau Hale, he was drafted by the Yankees early and had signed with Texas but not a JUCO, there are others, I know for a FACT he was offered 100K and elected to hold out for more. I also know that the Yankee's boss told the scout doing the negot he wasn't getting a penny more and let him go to school, it worked out for Beau. There have been several players that have 'broke out' (my son) after there first yr in college, if at a D1 he's trapped till a Jr and lots can happen (and has) till he can go Pro. I get most of my info from being there. Most players and parents don't know a player can sign with both D1 and JUCO and that too is a fact as my son did in 98. As far as saying Dishon is better at LSU>>now what if he got drafted say in the first 5,6 rnds how many JUCO will have scholarships left in June, just because he signs with a JUCO dont mean he has to go, but its very good insurance. BTW if he's lucky enough to be drafted and elects to go to school and God forbid 'falls on his face', he can tell his kids he was a drafted player.  

Given the low % of kids who actually make the majors, I don't see how a kid is 'trapped' at a prominent 4 year school.  If Dishon (or anyone else) decides in the summer to go JUCO because their pro shot is so 'good', I think he'll find a JUCO to take him.  Finally, I don't think NOT signing with a JUCO hurt Bruce...he signed with Tulane, did not sign with a JUCO and then signed for nearly $2,000,000.  'Nuff said.

I'd take Ferguson and Murphy first.  That appears to be a general consensus.  After that, I like Riley (Woodville) then probably Bunner from Vidor.  Hearn (LCM) is having a productive year as is Bolton at BC.  Barnett at PNG is also very productive for the Indians.  A kid to watch for next year as a middle infielder is Lycan (WB).  He primarily plays 3B but will move into the middle next year when Ferguson and Murphy graduate.

Again, proves the point...lotta good players here at home.

I think this thread confirms that we have a lot of really good HS baseball players here in SE Texas.  With that said, I'll throw my '2 cents' in on the "Best CF in SETX" with the caveat that, by ranking them, I'm not knocking any of them.  I'll add the further 'warning' that I judge them not just by how they do in high school but trying to look at them beyond that.

1.  Johnny Dishon (Bridge City)-- already has MLB speed (6.5 60) and arm (92).  Hits and hits for power (at or near area HR lead).  Tracks the ball as well as any on this list.  Plays faster than he runs (which is pretty #@%$ fast).  LSU signee for a reason.

2.  Bobby Armstrong (West Brook) -- not as fast (6.9) but has demonstrated ability to throw (90).  Has hit for average again this year with 'gap to gap' (but not HR) power.  Does not track it as well as Dishon or Calhoun but sill at top notch OF.  Look for him to be top JUCO or late Spring D-1 sign.

3.  Rocky Calhoun (Silsbee) -- ranks behind Dishon and Armstrong in speed (7.0) and arm (78) but throws better in game than arm strength rates.  Also plays faster than his clocked time.  Very good tracker of balls back and into gaps.  Falls behind both Dishon and Armstrong as a hitter (both current and projection).  His stature hurts him with both recruiters and scouts.  Not sure what his recruiting status is.  Like Dishon, also a standout football player.

I think you could take any one of these kids...put him in your OF and you'd be okay.  I do remember the time when all three of them did play in the OF together...

I have not seen Taylor Hart play CF (I have only seen him at SS).  I would think he has all the makings of being a very good CF in terms of speed and instincts.  Do not know what his OF arm strength is/is not.  Is only a junior.  Have not seen the kids from either Kirbyville or Central enough to form an opinion.

I'll also mention another kid who is (technically) out of SETX:  Ralphael Thomas from Lufkin.  While he does not have a lot of power, he hits for average as well or better than any of the above.  He is also 'plus plus' fast (I've seen him run a 6.3).  His arm is slightly better than Calhoun's but not near Dishon's but...talk about game-changing speed...

I doubt any of this changes anyone else's opinions.  They're just mine anyway...

Have to disagree on a '5 tool player' if he was a 5 tool player he would go first rnd.Not many '5 tool players' in the minors much less HS and college. BTW unless things have changed since my son played JUCO they have 16 scholarships a yr.

Although I havn't seen Dishon play but once this yr. and hearing he has signed with LSU, it would be in his best intrest to also sign with a major JUCO and make his mind up in the off season. 

I'm not sure why it would be in Johnny's (or anyone else's) best interest to sign with a Junior College.  If the intent is to somehow preserve his draft status, then I think that it serves him no benefit to sign with a JUCO ('major' or not).  When the 'draft and follow' rule went out the window, he (assuming he is drafted) has to decide by Aug. 15th anyway.  This year's draft will be very different from prior years.  Although it'll still go 50 rounds, I think you'll see a lot of teams dropping out after 30-40 rounds since the Draft and Follow is gone.

If it is to stay 'available' for the draft every year, that puts a lot of eggs in the proverbial "I'll get drafted during/after my juco career is over".  That is probably a better option for pitchers than it is position players (e.g. Clay Bucholtz).  Leaving aside early round High Schoolers, I personally think your strongest negotiating position is after your 3rd year in college.

As far as Johnny Dishon goes, signing with LSU is his best option.  If the draft changes that, he can re-evaluate in June.

No sport has a bigger facsination with numbers and stats than does baseball.  The lore of baseball is cloaked with numbers and stats, etc...OBP and OPS are relatively new stats that come out of the 'Money Ball' era that is known as performance scouting.  They are valuable in determing a player's productivity in some sense.

On the other hand, the 'old reliable' (batting average) still tells you who your better hitters are (although I recognize the argument about OPS).  With 2 outs and the tying run on 2nd, do you want a guy up at the plate who gets a lot of walks or a guy who gets a lot of hits?  Overlooked in the debate is another 'old' number -- RBIs.  Who scores the most runners, etc.?

Just food for thought...

Humble jumped out to 5-1 lead early off Dempsay but couldn't hold on.  Sterling wins 7-5 to maintain 1 game lead over West Brook in District 21-5A.

Last report was 6-5 Sterling over Humble in 7th.  Looked everywhere for an update but haven't found it yet.

Tuesday night provided the 'usual' amount of suspense and surprises with the leaders including (1) Jasper's come-from-behind 3-2 win over Bridge City and (2) Vidor welcoming back injured SS VJ Bunner with a 6-3 upset of LCM.  Our roundup begins...

In 5A, West Brook closed out the first half with a 10-0 'run rule' win over Channelview.  Todd Wallace continued his hot hitting with yet another HR and an RBI double.  The Bruins face Atascocita at home tonight in an effort to avenge an earlier 1-0 loss.  Props to the Titans from Memorial...they defeated Humble 6-5 for only their 2nd district win in school history.  Nice job.

In 21-4A, #1 Barbers  Hill continued its domination with a 16-0 romp over Galena Park.  Huffman prepared for tonight's big clash with New Caney by thrashing CE King 13-1.  The New Caney game is the Falcons 'last chance' to make a run at 2nd place.

Vidor upset the apple cart in 22-4A when they defeated LCM 6-3.  It was a huge win for the Pirates.  At the halfway point, PNG stands alone at 7-0 with LCM and Vidor at 5-2.  A game out of the playoff hunt is Dayton (4-3) while Nederland lurks 2 games behind at 3-4.  The big game tonight will be Vidor at Nederland in what can only be called a 'must win' for the Bulldogs.

The big news in 21-3A isn't who's winning...its who lost.  Bridge City.  Two in a row, including a loss at home.  Silsbee and Jasper are atop 21-3A at 7-1 with the Cards a game back at 6-2.  HJ is hanging tough (and need to deliver an upset or two) at 5-3.  Tonight, its topsy turvey as the 'top 4' play the 'bottom 4' including OF @ BC and Jasper @ HF.

In the smaller schools, Buna ran their record to 7-0 in district play when the Cougars outlasted last place Kountze Lions 9-8.  1A Evadale won their 9th in a row (and went to 5-0 in district) with a 14-1 blistering of West Hardin.  The duo of Landis and Drake have been dominant of late for the Rebs.

With Wednesday's rains, some of the fields are damp (playable?).  Be sure to check here at www.setxsports.com for the latest info on tonight's games.

Touche...

In my experience, the most heavily watched HS player in recent years was Jay Bruce (granted, I wasn't here when Patterson came through).  That is not even close.

Last year, the kid who was probably watched most by prof scouts was Kevin Angelle (BC).  The kid who drew the most collegiate attention (until he signed at A&M) was Clayton Ehlert.

As far as this year, those players were Dishon, Ferguson and Murphy (although, from a college standpoint, these isn't much watching now since they've all signed).  I know there has been some scout interest in Dishon and Ferguson (and assume they same to be true with Murphy).  I also know the scouts have gone over to watch Stringer at BC because 'he's a lefthander with a little bit of a live arm'.  One scout also went to Cathedral to watch Nick Christopher however that was 'a very short trip'. 

The unsigned kids in the 2007 class that will probably get the most looks include guys like Mark Serna and Bobby Armstrong (WB) along with Rocky Calhoun (Silsbee).  Its just a hard time for recruiters since they're all in the middle of their conference schedules right now.

Cervenka has become Sterling's #3 in district.  Dempsay is their #1 and Pitkin is their #2.  While I may not agree with Tadlock's decision, that is still the way it is working.  Also, Cervenka did start on the hill last Tuesday for Sterling, throwing very well in a 9-2 win.

This seems to be an 'annual' thread...and should be more appropriately entitled "Why is Lumberton so bad...again..."  For what its worth:

1.  Lumberton is not very talented right now.  That's no one's fault, just the way it is.  When you play baseball in SE Texas, there is a lot of talent and a lot of talented teams.  The Raiders are not so blessed.  GET BETTER.

2.  There always seems to be a faction of parents and (perhaps) players who blame the coach.  Doesn't matter who it is.  Doesn't matter if he is a good coach, bad coach or mediocre coach.  He gets the blame.  LET THE COACH DO HIS JOB AND LEAVE HIM ALONE.

3.  Instead of finger pointing (its the seniors...not, its the underclassmen...look, the senior got all our hits against LCM), find the good and work from that.  So what if the seniors (or juniors, or 8th graders for that matter) got the hits.  You lost 15-1.  BE A TEAM.

You want to be a better baseball team?  The players need to get stronger.  They need to get better.  You want your coach to be Tony LaRussa?  Give him something to work with and let him run with it.  You want Lumberton baseball to be a team?  Then act like a team and go from there.

Face the facts...Lumberton is gonna finish dead last in their district.  Behind Ozen (their only win so far).  Behind Central.  Behind everyone. 

Okay...I feel better.  I vented.  Every year, even though it may be different screen names...its the same old posts.  It gets old.  There.  End of post.

MIF,

It sounds like you are letting some people on here bother you a little.  Don't.  You guys on this site do a great job.  You make informed judgements and that is all a person can ask.

Nah....just answering the guy's questions (or, at least, trying to)...

1.  Again, the reasoning of 'who beat who' is an imperfect logic that leads to the proverbial 'dog chasing his tail' analogy.  It also calls into play the circumstances of each game, etc.  For example, PNG did defeat BH (although PNG threw their ace in a non-district game and BH did not).  WB defeated PNG.  BH defeated WB (again, BH threw their ace and WB did not).  PNG did defeat Sterling (in a non-district game where Sterling threw their #3) and Sterling did defeat WB (in a district game, at home, in the bottom of the 7th).  Of course, Ozen defeated WB and, as the dog chases its tail, maybe the Panthers should be #1????

2.  The rankings try to take into account a number of things:  who's hot?  how are they doing in district?  what classification are they?  It is subjective and tries to take into account a lot of different things.  For example:

(a)  BH is also #1 in Greater Houston 4A.  On the other hand, LCM is ranked ahead of PNG in the same poll; however, PNG is undefeated in district...LCM is not.  Currently, BH's district is weaker but you cannot ignore that the Eagles are kicking the tar out of everyone they run across.  They also played a very competitive non-district schedule and their losses have all been legitimate ones.

(  PNG played .500 ball pre-district.  That turned out to be a 'master stroke' by Jay Stone as they have run the table so far in district (although it wasn't such a 'master stroke' last year).  Nederland tried the same strategy and have stumbled badly.  The Indians' district run overshadows their pre-district mediocrity.

©  Silsbee got moved ahead of BC, not just because of the 1 win over the Cards but because the Tigers are now a slight favorite to win that district due to the schedule.  Jasper and BC still have 2 games left so there is a lot of fighting to do there.

(d)  WB has lost 2 district games but it is in one of the more competitive 5A districts in the State.  They are also the most talented team hands down in the area from an offensive and defensive standpoint.  Their weakness, however, is pitching.  They do not have that commanding 'ace' that other teams have.  They need to score the 10 runs per game they are averaging right now.

3.  The rankings do not necessarily reflect the best team in the area in terms of who may go further in the playoffs.  Any team could get hot and, sometimes, pitching depth is more prominent in a 3 game series than during district play.

Please excuse my ramblings...its just not as simple as 'who beat who' at any given time.  Name a team and I (or someone else on the board) could make a convincing argument to move them up (or down, or out of) the Top Ten.

'Nuff said... 

In all fairness, some of those 42 games in a row were under Sam Moore...just giving credit where credit is due.

I posted this question on another thread........still no answer!

What happens if BC and Jasper split, then Jasper beats Silsbee, all three have split, giving each of the top teams 2 losses........how will that be settled?

If only two have same records with a split, they have a one game playoff!

I would guess that procedure exists at the District Exec Committee level.  You could have a 3-way playoff to determine 1-2-3 for playoff seeding.  You could also have a coin flip, draw straws, etc.  There may a 'tie breaker' that looks at score differential, runs allowed, scored between the tied teams.  Bottom line -- there is a procedure, some procedure (any procedure).

I will have to mention Jake Rowell.

4-5 2HR, DBL, 1 BB, 5 RBI's  versus Nederland and Lumberton

Props to Jake.  That's a pretty good week, too.

First, that is a really good article about BH.  Not only have they met expectations, they have exceeded them.  Doing so after losing Barrera only makes their story better.

Second, BC drops from 1 to 5 simply because Silsbee is now a very slight favorite to win that district.  They have beaten both BC and Jasper and have only 1 game left with that group.  BC and Jasper still have 2 games to beat each other up.  Granted, Jasper can shake all of this or BC can 'sweep' the 'Dogs and stand side by side with Silsbee.  It is still a great race in that district.

Third, I agree with the earlier post -- the rankings are for everyone to talk about, agree or disagree with.  They don't necessarily rank the ten best teams...they rank the teams that (on any given week) are doing the best within their district, classification, etc.

By the way, anyone who wants a vote...just send me a PM by Saturday noon and we'll include it.  We consider 'em all !!!!

I would think Flores with his no hitter would be Pitcher of the Week.  Schooling gets congrats for defeating BC (although I don't think giving up 7 runs is anywhere near a no-no).

As far as Player of the Week, West Brook has 2 deserving candidates this week:

Bobby Armstrong:  5-6 (sorry, the official book gave the RF an error on 1 of his 'hits' on Friday nite) with 2 3B, 1 HR, 3 RBI and 7 Runs scored.

Todd Wallace:  3-5, 2 HR, 6 RBI.

Both had great weeks although I personally would give the nod to Armstrong.

This is the best Top Ten list I can come up with from this thread:

1.  7    Murphy (WB)

2.  6    Dishon (BC)

          Townley (BH)

4.  5    Campbell (BH)

          Wallace (WB)

6.  4    Ferguson (WB)

          Hart (Jasp)

          Ponder (BH)

          Riley (Wood)

          Serna (WB)

11. 3   Barnett (PNG)

          Dillon (BC)

          Moore (HF)

          Monse (HJ)

          Primm (Wood)

          Rogers (HJ)

          Simmons (K-ville)

          West (Warren)

Sorry if I missed anyone.  Post any corrections, etc.

West Brook dominates and embarrasses Humble in their own park, 22-0.  David Murphy throws 4 innings of shut out ball with 5th inning 1-2-3 from Steven Tubbs.  Mark Serna and Bobby Armstrong with HRs. 

15 runs in the 5th...5 or 6 pitching changes.  One of the longest innings ever...

Mark Serna at WB has 10.