FanintheStands

[quote name="bullets13" post="1171381" timestamp="1328298063"] [quote author=whysoserious link=topic=95354.msg1171371#msg1171371 date=1328297091] [quote author=bullets13 link=topic=95354.msg1171359#msg1171359 date=1328296113] [quote author=Dick Vitale link=topic=95354.msg1171330#msg1171330 date=1328294225] Silsbee...probably BIG... ;) [/quote] agree.  silsbee 79-54. [/quote] If they only won by 7 at home at the very end, I think this one will be a barn burner. [/quote] you're entitled to that opinion.  WOS has improved enough to keep it close on occasion, but Silsbee is still 20-25 points better than them on a whole.  I think the close game they played last time will ensure that Silsbee comes out sharp in this one. [/quote]I agree. The Tigers are going to be on a mission tonight. Big win in store.

[quote name="AggiesAreWe" post="1171277" timestamp="1328289791"] Bottom number for 3A last realignment was 430. So, it is a difference of 5 less, not 3. ;) ;D [/quote]Which means it shot up from the past ratio of 2.3 to the present ratio of 2.31. OK, now I see your point.  It's not fair!!!  ;)

[quote name="speechless" post="1171273" timestamp="1328289515"] Since statistics are your thing.....know that 3A has always had the worst ratio...they are bragging about it going down from 2.3 to 2.2....that sounds good in theory but, here are the numbers: This past alignment 3A was 432-989 The new alignment 3A is 450-1004 The bottom number went up 18 and the top number went up 15....that is a difference of THREE people!  The 3A ratio is typically one of the worst in reclassification.  Then you top it off with every other classification having at least 230 schools in it except 3A which has 190. [/quote]... and your point is? Tell me in any of my posts where I said this was a perfect system, and I will apologize for being mistaken.  All I've said is that its still the best system available. What's wrong with the 190 3A schools anyway?  It just increases the chances of any one team for winning the state championship from 0.43478% (for 230 school classification) to 0.52632% (for 190 school classification)!!!  Now, shouldn't that make you feel better for all the inequity out there in the sports world?  ;)

[quote name="stevenash" post="1171243" timestamp="1328287514"] [quote author=FanintheStands link=topic=95072.msg1171234#msg1171234 date=1328287248] [quote author=speechless link=topic=95072.msg1171228#msg1171228 date=1328286865] I'm not speaking statistically, I'm speaking factually from having seen the situations first hand. Statistics are nice and all but, don't always tell the whole story. [/quote]When you are trying to find the most equitable situation for all, statistics is all you have.  Everything else becomes cumbersome and creates more problems than it solves.  I could bore you to tears with bell-curves that support this reasoning, but it just isn't worth it. [/quote] Will statistics accurately quanitify the level of competition created in a metropolitan area vs a rural area and hence the eventual quality of the players?  I would be willing to bet that if you take the top1% of all basketball players in Houston and compare them to the top 1% of players in the Nacogdoches community, there is a substantial difference in the calibre of play. [/quote]I'm not arguing that.  Are you going to say that a 800 student school in Houston should be rated 5A simply because there are more talented people in Houston? I'm not saying statistically based classification is good.  I'm just saying its the best and most equitable way of doing it.  Period.

Silsbee will not fall asleep on WOS.  They will rock a 16 point win, if not more.

[quote name="speechless" post="1171228" timestamp="1328286865"] I'm not speaking statistically, I'm speaking factually from having seen the situations first hand. Statistics are nice and all but, don't always tell the whole story. [/quote]When you are trying to find the most equitable situation for all, statistics is all you have.  Everything else becomes cumbersome and creates more problems than it solves.  I could bore you to tears with bell-curves that support this reasoning, but it just isn't worth it.

Just don't dis the gym and you guys will be all right at West Orange.

[quote name="speechless" post="1171212" timestamp="1328286134"] [quote]But the problem with taking that many from 1A is a great number of 1A's do not play football. You deplete their numbers and you will have many more schools having to travel much more for district ball games. Also, 150 in the top two classifications will make for more travel.[/quote] I understand but, you are still left with 330 1A schools that play basketball.  I don't know how many of those play football but, I am guessing you could still work things out football wise out of 330 schools. Travel is already an issue at 5A and will always be an issue in region 1. [b]My point is....a school of 450 competing against a school of 1004 is a heck of a lot different than a school of 2500 competing against a school of 5000.[/b] Kind of like the difference between a 35 year old dating a 25 year old and a 25 year old dating a 15 year old.  The age difference is numerically the same but, that is where the similarities end. They could keep the 300 schools 5A for all I care. [/quote]And I disagree with your reasoning.  Statistically speaking, the law of averages is the same for a 450 school against a 900-1000 as it is for a 2500 against a 5000 - 5500.  Period. Oh, and the 25 year old dater vs. the 35 year old dater?  You forgot to factor in how much money each one of those guys make!!!!  Big difference!  ;)

[quote name="AggiesAreWe" post="1171207" timestamp="1328285600"] But the problem with taking that many from 1A is a great number of 1A's do not play football. You deplete their numbers and you will have many more schools having to travel much more for district ball games. Also, 150 in the top two classifications will make for more travel. [/quote]More travel with larger caravans.... larger football teams, larger bands, etc., etc. Of course, Calvin Walker has a brother in the bussing industry, so I'm sure Beaumont ISD will gladly support this!  ;)  Your tax dollars at work!

AAW, I would change the title of this thread to, "[i]Because someone asked me to..... and also because I love to show how badly Silsbee has beaten HJ in the past![/i]"  ;) Never pass up a chance to rub it in, eh?

[quote name="speechless" post="1171176" timestamp="1328283233"] The problem is that the UIL shoots for 230-250 schools in each classification.  [b]Guess how many 3A has?  190![/b] Guess how many 1A has?  390! All you have to do is move the 60 highest enrolled 1A schools up to 2A, the 60 highest enrolled 2A schools up to 3A, the 60 highest enrolled schools in 3A up to 4A and the 60 highest enrolled schools in 4A up to 5A.  That would give 5A right a 300 schools or so.  Take the top 150 enrolled 5A schools and make them 6A.  Get rid of your two divisions in 1A and your problem is solved. [/quote]So if you add 60 schools to 3A from 2A, then take 60 schools from 3A to 4A, aren't you still left with 190 in 3A? 

[quote name="bullets13" post="1171113" timestamp="1328278231"] laugh away... if kountze was 3A, they'd be about the 30th best team in the state. and there are many 3A schools that are closer in size to Kountze than they are to the 3A schools at the top of the spectrum.  and this is the reason i brought up huge cities, and schools pulling in kids from all over those cities, but keeping enrollment under 1000.  Which basketball pool has more quality... Hardin Jefferson, or the entire city of Houston, which Yates seems to pick and choose players from? [/quote]But the "entire city of Houston" analogy you are using has NOTHING to do with the ratio system of (aprroximately) 2.2 that is laid out right now.  Even if you went to the 6 or 7 classifications that you are touting, Houston would still be able to do what you claim they are doing now. In other words, Houston could fleece the 6 or 7 classification system just as easily as they could fleece the 5 classification ratio system.  Hence, you would be solving nothing by doing that. And your ranking of Kountze as 30th in 3A?  Not bad for a rebuilding year.

[quote name="tokenwb" post="1171011" timestamp="1328240228"] [quote author=FanintheStands link=topic=95072.msg1171010#msg1171010 date=1328240087] [quote author=tokenwb link=topic=95072.msg1171009#msg1171009 date=1328239837] What if the top 12 players in SE Tx transferred to one school.  How would they compete with Yates? [/quote]Who's the coach? [/quote]Sutherland -Head Coach Sigler - Assis Coach [/quote]The SE TX team wouldn't stand a chance. But if you had said: Sutherland - Head Coach Clay Davis - Assist. Coach Then I would have said that we would rip them a new one!  ;)

[quote name="PoppaBearstarr" post="1171016" timestamp="1328240538"] I thought he was a sophomore [/quote]He was..... last year.  ;)

[quote name="tokenwb" post="1171009" timestamp="1328239837"] What if the top 12 players in SE Tx transferred to one school.  How would they compete with Yates? [/quote]Who's the coach?

[quote name="bullets13" post="1170941" timestamp="1328227522"] that sucks, but so does a small school meeting up with an inner city school in the playoffs that has 500 more kids enrolled and that is able to pull kids in from all over a huge city. [/quote]You find a more feasible solution and we'll pitch it to UIL.  In the meantime, I'll watch teams like Kountze compete with 1/2 of the local 4A teams in the area and laugh at you. You see, its the quality of the basketball pool that is so much more important than the size of the basketball pool.  Take HJ and Silsbee.  Together, they've beaten probably every 4A and 5A team in the area this year alone.

[quote name="bullets13" post="1170859" timestamp="1328221248"] [quote author=FanintheStands link=topic=95072.msg1170808#msg1170808 date=1328218089] [quote author=bullets13 link=topic=95072.msg1170795#msg1170795 date=1328217397] statistics, smatistics.  i know what you're saying, but when you're dealing with such a small amount of players on the floor on the time, +550 in enrollment is a much bigger deal than +200, and ratio is somewhat irrelevant.  If not, then 2A schools with enrollments of 200 should be competitive with 3A schools with enrollments of 750. [/quote]good Lord, we have that today! Have you heard of Kountze, East Chambers, and New Waverly. To paraphrase somebody else, The ratio system is an awlful system, But it is by far the best system available. [/quote] i think a 6A classification is the way to go.  making the gap between the smallest and largest schools in a classification would be better than the ratio system, IMO. [/quote]you still have to have a system to determine the drawing lines. and guess what system will be used?

[quote name="bullets13" post="1170795" timestamp="1328217397"] statistics, smatistics.  i know what you're saying, but when you're dealing with such a small amount of players on the floor on the time, +550 in enrollment is a much bigger deal than +200, and ratio is somewhat irrelevant.  If not, then 2A schools with enrollments of 200 should be competitive with 3A schools with enrollments of 750. [/quote]good Lord, we have that today! Have you heard of Kountze, East Chambers, and New Waverly. To paraphrase somebody else, The ratio system is an awlful system, But it is by far the best system available.

[quote name="bullets13" post="1170760" timestamp="1328215811"] [quote author=FanintheStands link=topic=95072.msg1170691#msg1170691 date=1328212460] [quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=95072.msg1170659#msg1170659 date=1328211426] [quote author=PhatMack19 link=topic=95072.msg1170612#msg1170612 date=1328210193] [quote author=stevenash link=topic=95072.msg1170530#msg1170530 date=1328207984] What I meant to ask for was the paramaters for each classification.  As in 1-a is 200-400  etc etc [/quote] 2012-2013 & 2013-2014 5A 2090 & up 4A 1005-2089 3A 450-1004 2A 200-449 1A 199 & below *99.9 & below [/quote]wOW! From 450-1004! [/quote]That's about a 2.2 ratio from smallest to largest.  Not much different than 2A (2.25) and 4A (2.1). [/quote] true, but the difference between 200 and 400 is nowhere near the difference between 450 and 1000.  The ratios are similar, but that's a huge gap between attendance numbers.  if i have 399 kids at my school, and you have 200, i only have 200 extra students.  if i have 1000 kids, and you have 450, i have 550 extra students to find a starting five for my basketball program... that's a HUGE advantage. [/quote]that's irrelevant, statistically speaking. The consistent ratios of smallest to largest is the fairest way to set up each classification.

[quote name="utfan06" post="1170745" timestamp="1328214486"] Aaw its getting turned around :-) [/quote]Yeah... and so is Hardin Jefferson's! ::)

[quote name="ST413" post="1170717" timestamp="1328213278"] [quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=95318.msg1170639#msg1170639 date=1328210900] [quote author=ST413 link=topic=95318.msg1170631#msg1170631 date=1328210762] Wow! I can't wait until the day one of these little ole 3A teams knocks mighty yates out of the playoffs, especially if its one of out local teams. [/quote]Sorry, you'll be too old to remember what happened when and if that day comes. ;) [/quote] It will happen, just a matter of time. I remember a game last year, that you said my Tigers couldn't win. No they didn't win it but only because the last spot just wouldnt fall.  You said out was lack of focus by GBall, it only takes one night for that to happen and that last shot to happen to fall. [/quote].... and Silsbee proved 3 weeks ago that yes, sometimes that last shot does fall!  (Sigh)

[quote name="AggiesAreWe" post="1170725" timestamp="1328213447"] Numbers for classification in last realignment: 2010-2011 & 2011 & 2012 5A  2065 & up 4A  990 to 2064 3A  430 to 989 2A  200 to 429 1A  199 & below       99.9 & below [/quote]Again, that's roughly the same ratio's; 2.1 - 2.3

[quote name="stevenash" post="1170694" timestamp="1328212585"] Well, I will certainly look for an opportunity to reciprocate.  [/quote]....aaaahhhh, and he's back!

[quote name="BLUEDOVE3" post="1170659" timestamp="1328211426"] [quote author=PhatMack19 link=topic=95072.msg1170612#msg1170612 date=1328210193] [quote author=stevenash link=topic=95072.msg1170530#msg1170530 date=1328207984] What I meant to ask for was the paramaters for each classification.  As in 1-a is 200-400  etc etc [/quote] 2012-2013 & 2013-2014 5A 2090 & up 4A 1005-2089 3A 450-1004 2A 200-449 1A 199 & below *99.9 & below [/quote]wOW! From 450-1004! [/quote]That's about a 2.2 ratio from smallest to largest.  Not much different than 2A (2.25) and 4A (2.1).

[quote name="stevenash" post="1170663" timestamp="1328211476"] Playing against a team that will not succumb to their pressure and force them to give every possible effort to win.  Force them to play their aggressive man to man without getting into foul trouble and make them be more selective on their three point efforts.  Those are the first  things that come to mind and frankly, I can't think of many teams (who would be likely available) that can effectively force those issues on Silsbee.  Furthermore, many teams can't handle Silsbees press and if they dont play someone that can, it wont help them in the playoffs. [/quote]You know, I can't believe that I'd ever say it, but I agree with you!