FanintheStands

[quote name="Lt. Dangle" post="962860" timestamp="1297188682"] Peveto Nation was alive & well in the late 70's to early 80's. They had unbelieveably tough teams in those years with Coach Peveto @ the helm. [/quote]Thanks a lot!!! Years of therapy down the drain...... BTW, I was talking about basketball.  I mean, I hated OF in football because they always kicked our tails (Buna), but I hated them even more in basketball because they would stall the whole stinking game.  We'd kick their tails, but it was very frustrating.  I mean, you want to get back at them for stompin' us in football, and then you have to chase them all over the court!

[quote name="Riding Solo" post="962824" timestamp="1297184960"] Yes, the Orangefield girls lost to Navasota in OT. Don't remember about the boys. I believe they also lost to Navasota but don't think it was in OT. I know the boys beat Coldspring in bi-district. My point is Orangefield boys basketball program has gotten better but they are not close to the level hardin jefferson is. [/quote]I seem to recall coming back from a game up the country and dropping off to see the last quarter of the OF - Navasota game.  I remember being surprised at how close it was.  It was like I was wondering if I was watching the same Orangefield team that we played in district. P.S.  And it sure wasn't the same Orangefield team that I grew up hating in the early 80's!  ;)

[quote name="BLUEDOVE3" post="962701" timestamp="1297174702"] A loss is a loss. It is what it is! ::) [/quote]Hmm.... Is that what you thought when you guys took Silsbee deep into the 4th?  "Oh well, a loss is a loss"

[quote name="Riding Solo" post="962632" timestamp="1297140110"] Let me rephase what I said, the team from Orangefield I mentioned before had more talent but the team from 2005 who made the playoffs, set the record for most wins in a season, had less talent then the teams in the past, played as a "TEAM" and that is why they won. By the way the team from 2005 did not win many games in junior high or subvarsity. They key was they kept working hard and proved all the non believers wrong.   [/quote]What about the 2008 team that lost to Navasota in the play-offs... in overtime I think.  Navasota ended up losing to HJ only by a last second put in (think Nederland's K Smith against PNG).  HJ made it to the Regional Finals and lost to Silsbee. That OF team had good fundamentals, great discipline and patience as well. 

[quote name="Honest Abe" post="962097" timestamp="1297032901"] I don't know of any big man in the area who is encouraged to dribble, although they do it at times... [/quote]It's like telling people not to slow down and look at an accident as they drive by.  No matter how many times its said, you still do it.

[quote name="Honest Abe" post="962087" timestamp="1297030452"] I think we all agree their defense is one of their strong pts. The Dawgs have handled pressure really well since the Bulldog Classic. They've not allowed Ozen or Central's pressure to affect their game (hence their victories over them). Nederland can adjust to pressure. It would be challenging for Silsbee to adjust to height and length and speed. 8) [/quote]I didn't realize that the Dogs had made that much of an adjustment.  I would hazard to guess that Silsbee's man-to-man is more intense than Ozen and Central's, but by how much, I wouldn't know. But yes, I would be concerned, if I was Silsbee, with a tall team.  But the first thing those skyscrapers had better realize is that they had better not dribble even once if they are posted up, because [b]they will lose the ball[/b].

[quote name="Honest Abe" post="962081" timestamp="1297029202"] [quote author=FanintheStands link=topic=79873.msg962030#msg962030 date=1297020779] [quote author=Honest Abe link=topic=79873.msg962016#msg962016 date=1297018418] Game goes to double OT at Montagne. @@ Ned holds ball for 90 secs. English drains the 3 this time. Nederland wins in Doubele OT by 3. [/quote]Nope.  Everybody KNOWS that Silsbee wouldn't let Nederland hold the ball for 90 seconds. They are far too smart for that!   ;)  If they tried, all they would see would be the back of the Tiger's jersey as he goes in for a layup after a steal. [/quote] The 90 secs comment was a joke-BTW. I don't think we'll see that happen for a while (God willing). As mentioned b4, it's a toss up. Out of 10 games: Nederland wins 5 Silsbee wins  5 [/quote]And my response was a joke...... hence the wink.  ;) But I think you are right.  It would be a close matchup, although I think Silsbee would have the upper hand.  The pressure that Silsbee puts on the ball is very intense.

[quote name="Wildcatter" post="962058" timestamp="1297025832"] I can't believe how poorly OF played in this game.  To let a mediocre HJ team off the hook for the second time this year is just amazing to me.  I mean I realize that HJ is better coached, has better athletes, better facilities, better fans, better tradition and the list goes on but for some reason we just continue to let HJ beat themselves.  I hope they don't have to play themselves in the playoffs or watch out because it will not have anything to do with the fact that they are just not as good as they think this year.  I realize how the record looks but everytime you have had to play a good team the results have not been that good. Yes they have ran rampant upon BC and HF in district but they have struggled against a mediocre OF team 2 times and beaten by Silsbee convincingly twice.  The great thing about this district is that HJ is normally considered a lock for the playoffs but rarely exceeds expectations in district. Yet when OF plays them close, yes I realize a loss is a los, it has nothing to do with the fact that OF played well it is always that HJ played that bad or beat themselves.  My prediction is a short playoff run unless a better team beats themselves.  [/quote]Do you really think that OF played well?  C'mon.  Number 11, who I think is a very good player had several lost balls that were not caused by HJ pressure.  You guys missed free throws down the stretch as well.  That game was sloppy by both teams. Orangefield is funny.  You guys pass the ball real well, and the press doesn't seem to affect ya'll hardly at all.  But your dribbling fundamentals are off as well as your ability to receive the pass.  How many times did you guys miss a pass that would have led to a layup or a wide open 3? But on defense, your skills are very, very good.  There are very few breakdowns on defense and that makes HJ have to be patient on offense.  Sometimes we are, but against you guys we are not.  Did you see the 2nd half of the 4th quarter?  Our offense is NOT based on Sean Prudhombame dribbling up and shooting a 3 at the top of the key.  It is not based on a 1 on 3 fastbreak either.  You guys seem to get in our heads and makes us play other than what we are supposed to be doing. That is something that we need to fix but it is a credit to your style of play.

[quote name="Honest Abe" post="962016" timestamp="1297018418"] Game goes to double OT at Montagne. @@ Ned holds ball for 90 secs. English drains the 3 this time. Nederland wins in Doubele OT by 3. [/quote]Nope.  Everybody KNOWS that Silsbee wouldn't let Nederland hold the ball for 90 seconds. They are far too smart for that!  ;)  If they tried, all they would see would be the back of the Tiger's jersey as he goes in for a layup after a steal.

[quote name="baddog" post="961939" timestamp="1297004116"] I think Nederland would play keep away the whole game and sink the game-winning 3 point shot at the buzzer. Nederland - 3 Silsbee - 0 [/quote]No, the odds are against that. They are not playing PNG, you know!  ;)

[quote name="LAZEEK" post="961817" timestamp="1296966316"] [quote author=dogs1218 link=topic=79841.msg961795#msg961795 date=1296965042] I dont wanna be too disrespectful to OF but....... Something didnt go right when HJ only won by 2 [/quote] And no disrespect to OF.......they are 1-6 in district and holding up the bottom!!! [/quote]I think the Hardin Jefferson players were blinded by some big dude sitting in the front row of the HJ side wearing a bright orange sweat shirt. Really, Lazeek, is Orangefield the place to wear your Florida Gators top?  Really?!?!  :o

[quote name="dogs1218" post="961795" timestamp="1296965042"] I dont wanna be too disrespectful to OF but....... Something didnt go right when HJ only won by 2 [/quote]HJ went flat in the 4th.  I think they were up 43-32 and the next thing you know, its 43-43.  HJ figured the game was over with an 11 point lead over a mediocre team, but somebody forgot to tell Orangefield.

[quote name="LAZEEK" post="961784" timestamp="1296963974"] Hawks almost beat themselves tonight........refs had nothing to do with it, but they were TERRIBLE!!!!!!!!!  [/quote]Agreed! But it is especially ironic (and perhaps frustrating) to sit near a group of people that see a foul (or traveling call) that should have been called on the other team every 3.4 seconds, but when a foul is called against our team, they scream, "[i]C'mon, ref, let the kids play[/i]". Although special kudos goes to the guy who asked the ref's, "[i]who's minding the foot locker while you two are gone[/i]"?  :D

This game was a good example of some of the poor refereeing that people have complained about. Joe Persohn fouls while laying flat on his back.  I guess its illegal to protect your face from being stepped on. Coach Sutherland is able to call a timeout while the loose ball is going out of bounds. One thing I could say is that the referees were pretty poor for both teams..... although sometimes I wondered.

[quote name="baddog" post="961753" timestamp="1296962562"] Looks like we don't need that 90 second ball control to prevent this blemish. ;D [/quote] :D Sounds like it was a good solid win!

Just as long as Central doesn't let Nederland dribble out the last 90 seconds of the game, the odds are that Central will upset Nederland!  ;)

[quote name="setxslam" post="961636" timestamp="1296951863"] Listened on KOGT, and it sounded like we didn't exactly kick butt today.  Missing the front end of three straight one-and-ones late was not clutch.  But we'll take the W, thank goodness. [/quote]What was ironic is that I don't think HJ missed a free throw before that 4th quarter drought. 

[quote name="baddog" post="961450" timestamp="1296934735"] Dang right, the low percentage shot missed, the one that was coached (defense) to force. The high percentage put back (probably 99%) was the one you can never count on happening. You say to force the play. What, force a miss? That happened. Should Nederland score and Png gets the ball back, there are no guarantees that they score. Why can't you see that?[/quote]My friend, just because I disagree with you, doesn't mean "I can't see that".  It simply means I disagree.  Why can't you see that?  ;) [quote author=baddog link=topic=79456.msg961450#msg961450 date=1296934735]Pngs coach should not shoulder any blame for that last shot. The game was lost when Nederland got the momentum to catch up after playing behind the whole game. Should have never come down to that last shot. My last post on this subject.[/quote]Where have I said "PNG coach lost the game for them"?  I didn't.  I've stated numerous times on this thread that the coach did an admirable job in keeping his team in the game against a much better Nederland bunch.  Now, nobody bats 1000 in baseball and no basketball coach makes the right decision every time.  [b]I think[/b] that the PNG coach limited his team's chances of winning, and I've stated that [b]this is my opinion[/b] and why I believe it.  You've chosen to disagree.  So be it. [/quote]

[quote name="baddog" post="961322" timestamp="1296915289"] How can anybody argue the coaches call? Nederlands last shot missed. The put back (that no coach can foresee), gave us the win. Pngs coach got what he was after.....Nederland shooting from a distance with a low percentage shot. He's not even my coach and I think he did right. On to Central. [/quote]What is a "Low percentage", 30%?  You're STILL giving yourself only a 35% chance of winning.  I don't like those odds when I know I have 90 seconds left in the game against a better team.

[quote name="stevenash" post="960973" timestamp="1296802053"] [      No worse than the odds police [/quote]Not until I question the odds on 35,000 threads can I come even close to being considered that. And the odds are: that will never happen.  ;)

[quote name="BADSANTA" post="960881" timestamp="1296787023"] [b]I could have did[/b] a top 20 and included Tigervoice and Bobcat05 [/quote]BS, please, check your words before posting!!!!  The [b][i]Grammar Police[/i][/b] are gonna kill you, man!!!!  It's like watching the opening scene of a Star Trek episode... you know the rookie is going to die! You [i]could have did[/i] better than that, my brother!  ;)

[quote name="speechless" post="960870" timestamp="1296785941"] so you'd be willing to put your players at a disadvantage by asking them to do something that they are not very good at and does not maximize their abilities for the sake of extra possessions? your black and white percentages sound all good in theory but, in the end you have to put your kids in a position that is most likely for them to be successful and png attempting to guard nederland in a spread set is not a position to be successful [/quote]I don't like the odds of just letting them have the last shot, either.  So my "black and white percentages", in my opinion, put my kids in a position that is most likely for them to be successful.  It's obviously not an ideal situation that PNG is in, but I feel that it is the lesser of two evils. You can disagree all you want and I'll still respect your opinion.  Every coach has their own style, and none of them have a monopoly on having the only correct style.  That's what makes team sports so exciting. But in PNG's case, they were up against a better team.  To beat a better team, you've got to be willing to take some chances.  It's just not the move I would have made.

[quote name="BLUEDOVE3" post="960764" timestamp="1296767609"] "The Clash of The Titans" seems to have been reduced to a thread more concerned about the fans not in the stands. What about the game. Who was to blame? It seems HJ messed up and Silsbee won the CUP! [/quote]... well, we haven't tried blaming the coaches for poor subbing.  Maybe we could try that, eh Dove?  ;)

[quote name="BADSANTA" post="960801" timestamp="1296774661"] I enjoy poking fun at him! [/quote]... and thank God you managed to spell everything correctly, or you would have never heard the end of it!  Although you could have added a little more punctuation.  ;)

[quote name="speechless" post="960762" timestamp="1296767582"] At that point in the game you are not really even thinking about OT or not.  This isn't football where there is lots of down time in between plays for extra coaching and thought to take place. What you are thinking is "they've got the ball with 1 minute to go and they are in spread trying to get us to come out of the defense that has hurt them the entire game.....they want us to get into something that they can exploit easily" what no one has even said is that even if png came out who is to say that nederland doesn't play keep away for the rest of the time and still hold for the last shot? with those thoughts you are not concerned about OT or whatever....they are on offense, you are on defense and all you are thinking is they have us in a bind right now so my best chance is to sit back and make them come to us and beat the defense that has given them trouble all game long [/quote]From the video, it was very evident what they wanted to do.  If I was coaching, I would have thought that if there is more than 30-45 seconds left on the clock (enough for several possessions), then I'd go for it.  I've laid out the percentages - rough as they are - and I still think that the coaches' job is to maximize his odds of winning.  Letting Nederland have that last shot did not help their case whatsoever. Just my opinion, though.  ;)