FanintheStands

[quote name="Razor" post="960729" timestamp="1296763841"] Let.....it.......go!!!!! [/quote]Just what are you trying to say?  ;)

[quote name="stevenash" post="960494" timestamp="1296744520"] [quote author=snooker link=topic=79456.msg960487#msg960487 date=1296744207] for fanin stands --- if you had a 75% ft shooter who had  went 1-7 from the line and a 65% ft shooter who was 7-8 from the line and you had to shoot a tech . foul -- which one shoots that night? [/quote] Good question with reasonable scenario. I get the distinct impression that you are suggesting that statistics don't always tell the whole story and perhaps sometimes a judgement call is necessary? [/quote]That's true, but no one has convinced me that PNG was better off going into overtime, than trying to win in regulation. Everyone has said that more possessions gives the advantage to Nederland since they are the better team. So that would mean the percentages and judgment both agree that PNG shouldn't have let the stall go on.

[quote name="bugjune" post="960555" timestamp="1296747814"] Well said Rebel Yeller. [/quote]Amen!

[quote name="ST413" post="960422" timestamp="1296710531"] [quote author=FanintheStands link=topic=79482.msg960365#msg960365 date=1296705152] [quote author=stevenash link=topic=79482.msg959962#msg959962 date=1296675668] [quote author=FanintheStands link=topic=79482.msg959865#msg959865 date=1296671497] [quote author=stevenash link=topic=79482.msg959794#msg959794 date=1296667435] My guess is that he meant this:  At each of these two games, people were turned away at both gyms not to mention how many decided not to go because they knew how difficult it would be to get in.  He probably theorized that those who watched the girls could have easily been replaced with those who were either turned away or didnt go due to attendance conditions.  I suppose that, additionally, you would need to consider potential additional concession stand revenues, etc.  He probably  believes that more total people are willing to attend one of two, four hour venues as opposed to a single 6 hour venue.  He probably also believes that the referee costs are the same whether at one location or two. He could additionally believe that the TOTAL (both schools combined) cost of sending all of the teams from Silsbee to HJ is no greater than sending half of the teams from HJ to Silsbee and the other half from Silsbee to HJ over a home and home series. [/quote]That's a might big assumption of "what he may have meant".  ;) Referees cost less.... no additional mileage.  Add to that lights, janitorial staff, and all, and I think that he may have meant that its wonderful for the girls to get to play in front of people other than their parents. [/quote] While I know nothing of the costs of referees, I had concluded that the cost of each referee (per game) is the same regardless of how many referees are involved.( one ref doing four games would have the same total cost as four refs doing one game)  If the referees give volume discounts, then I obviously was wrong.  If they get mileage, its hard for me to believe that there is more than a slight difference between the travel costs to Silsbee as compared to Sour Lake.  Also, I have PMd the originator of the post(of which we speak) to see if I  have inadvertently misassumed) and will PM you his reply if I get one.  Its 9:38 pm and he just responded telling me I interpreted his post properly [/quote]I don't know of volume discounts.  But I often see two referee groups at a boys "night" - 1 set for freshman and JV and 1 set for Varsity.  Now, I assume that neither of these groups handled the girls game  ;), then that would make a 3rd set (and a 4th if the girls handle two groups like the boys... I don't know).  How many groups were used last night? Also, the girls gym was dark last night - meaning no electricity, no janitorial overtime. One final thing - What about parents that have boys and girls playing.  This gives them the chance to finally see both their kids play! .... maybe that's what he meant!  :D [/quote] Wasn't there a freshman gamein the girls gym.  so at least 1 more set of refs and some of that extra cost.  [/quote]Which probably meant 3 crews. 

[quote name="snooker" post="960487" timestamp="1296744207"] for fanin stands --- if you had a 75% ft shooter who had  went 1-7 from the line and a 65% ft shooter who was 7-8 from the line and you had to shoot a tech . foul -- which one shoots that night? [/quote]Of course whatever answer would be questioned, but I'd go with the kid with the hot hand.  Why do you ask?

[quote name="LAZEEK" post="960367" timestamp="1296705207"] Actually last night the Girls Varsity and Boys Varsity had the same 3 man crew!!!!! [/quote]Yes they did.  But that may have been because they didn't have to cross half-court very often during the girls game.  They were well-rested.  ;) But the boys JV used a different set, didn't they?

[quote name="stevenash" post="959962" timestamp="1296675668"] [quote author=FanintheStands link=topic=79482.msg959865#msg959865 date=1296671497] [quote author=stevenash link=topic=79482.msg959794#msg959794 date=1296667435] My guess is that he meant this:  At each of these two games, people were turned away at both gyms not to mention how many decided not to go because they knew how difficult it would be to get in.  He probably theorized that those who watched the girls could have easily been replaced with those who were either turned away or didnt go due to attendance conditions.  I suppose that, additionally, you would need to consider potential additional concession stand revenues, etc.  He probably  believes that more total people are willing to attend one of two, four hour venues as opposed to a single 6 hour venue.  He probably also believes that the referee costs are the same whether at one location or two. He could additionally believe that the TOTAL (both schools combined) cost of sending all of the teams from Silsbee to HJ is no greater than sending half of the teams from HJ to Silsbee and the other half from Silsbee to HJ over a home and home series. [/quote]That's a might big assumption of "what he may have meant".  ;) Referees cost less.... no additional mileage.  Add to that lights, janitorial staff, and all, and I think that he may have meant that its wonderful for the girls to get to play in front of people other than their parents. [/quote] While I know nothing of the costs of referees, I had concluded that the cost of each referee (per game) is the same regardless of how many referees are involved.( one ref doing four games would have the same total cost as four refs doing one game)  If the referees give volume discounts, then I obviously was wrong.  If they get mileage, its hard for me to believe that there is more than a slight difference between the travel costs to Silsbee as compared to Sour Lake.  Also, I have PMd the originator of the post(of which we speak) to see if I  have inadvertently misassumed) and will PM you his reply if I get one.  Its 9:38 pm and he just responded telling me I interpreted his post properly [/quote]I don't know of volume discounts.  But I often see two referee groups at a boys "night" - 1 set for freshman and JV and 1 set for Varsity.  Now, I assume that neither of these groups handled the girls game  ;), then that would make a 3rd set (and a 4th if the girls handle two groups like the boys... I don't know).  How many groups were used last night? Also, the girls gym was dark last night - meaning no electricity, no janitorial overtime. One final thing - What about parents that have boys and girls playing.  This gives them the chance to finally see both their kids play! .... maybe that's what he meant!  :D

[quote name="BLUEDOVE3" post="960324" timestamp="1296703220"] [quote author=cbosha link=topic=76916.msg960104#msg960104 date=1296684291] Dove where do you kids compare in all of this? You are so worried about Bosha, throw out stats for your boys then we can talk about Bosha. There will always be someone better than someone else. And for the record, he has played against players all over Texas. Before the season started he was ranked #52 (based on his 8th grade stats). I'm sure by now that number has gone down. Who cares who the best freshman is anywhere? He just goes out and plays he game without comparing himself to others. Either you like him, or you don't. Either you like his game, or you don't. If you like him fine and if you don't, hey that's fine too. Trust we are not losing sleep in the Bosha household. As a matter of fact he will be traveling to Pennsylvania this summer to play with some of the best in the nation! Dang! The kid is 14. Back off!!! CONCENTRATE ON YOURS, THEN MAYBE WE CAN DISCUSS MINE. [/quote]I'm not saying anything about your son. My point is this: It don't matter wgat [/quote]Can anyone tell me why Dove is getting picked on with this thread? He hasn't said anything bad about Bosha (at least not on these forums) He's getting chastised for giving his opinion on a thread that asks for peoples opinions on whether Bosha is the best Freshman. Now, I disagree with Dove on........ well, nearly everything.  But that doesn't mean I need to jump him for disagreeing.

[quote name="dogs1218" post="960237" timestamp="1296697991"] [quote author=stevenash link=topic=79538.msg960228#msg960228 date=1296696606] [quote author=dogs1218 link=topic=79538.msg960223#msg960223 date=1296696229] [quote author=bullets13 link=topic=79538.msg960211#msg960211 date=1296695011] A team plays another team equal or better for 3 quarters two times in 3 weeks, and you come on bragging about how you "knew HJ had no shot at beating silsbee".  HJ put themselves in great position to beat them, not once but twice.  I'm not talking about Nederland playing a garbage game against PNG and the Indians having a flukey shot at beating the dawgs, i'm talking about HJ playing as well or better than the tigers for 3 quarters TWICE.  Now, i've already stated that Silsbee is the better team, but HJ has a decent shot of beating them any time they play, not "no shot".  Nederland has "no shot" at advancing to state.  Bridge City has "no shot" at making the playoffs.  HJ could beat Silsbee, and it wouldn't take a whole lot of breaks to do it.  That is merely the point i was trying to make.  I do like the comment "I didn't want to say anything negative until after the game until i could see what the score ended up being", however.  You'd think since you "knew HJ had no shot of beating Silsbee", you would've made your bold prediction before the games, rather than after they occured.  [/quote] Plenty of others knew what I thought about this match-up, and I promised Ole Nashy that I wouldnt say anything else about Hj until the game was finished ;) I was chomping at the bit to get back on this topic! ;D ;D [/quote]  All I can do is hope the topic shows up again sometime soon [/quote] Always next year ;) [/quote]But there may be Sam Houston this year!  ;)

[quote name="ST4life" post="960003" timestamp="1296677855"] You like HJ I like Silsbee You can say what you got to say it won’t hurt my feelings I am a supporter of the Tigers & HJ because they are both in SETX where I live and very good basketball teams Silsbee is my #1 team then if they can’t pull it off then GO HAWKS!!! [/quote]My sentiments exactly........ except flipped over, you know?

[quote name="bullets13" post="959920" timestamp="1296673800"] HJ could have easily won either game.  Silsbee is certainly the better, deeper team, but HJ absolutely has the talent to beat this team.  HJ held a lead at the end of 3 in the first game, and a lead with 1 minute left in the 3rd in the 2nd game.  Silsbee's depth helped them pull away at the end of both games, but i'd challenge you to find anyone who saw either of these games who thinks there's NO way that HJ could beat Silsbee.  [/quote]I agree.  There would have to be some breaks that go HJ's way...... like maybe shooting better than 1 of 8 from the free throw line in the 1st minutes of the game...... but they could do it.

[quote name="AggiesAreWe" post="959889" timestamp="1296672519"] [quote author=FanintheStands link=topic=79482.msg959885#msg959885 date=1296672289] [quote author=AggiesAreWe link=topic=79482.msg959879#msg959879 date=1296672029] [quote author=LAZEEK link=topic=79482.msg959867#msg959867 date=1296671623] [quote author=AggiesAreWe link=topic=79482.msg959822#msg959822 date=1296668622] [quote author=LAZEEK link=topic=79482.msg959821#msg959821 date=1296668554] What was attendance for HJ @ Silsbee??  [/quote] 17,340 [/quote] Seriously!!!!!! [/quote] 1582, officially. [/quote]So how did the 15,758 unofficially get in?  Did someone leave the backdoor unlocked? [/quote] That's how many watched it on the closed-circuit screens in the auditorium, adjacent gym, cafeteria, football stadium and school library. ;D [/quote]Ahhhh...... you forgot about the special feed at Texas Stadium.  Jerry Jones brought in free Domino's Pizza to go along with his $15.00 beers! Make that 117,340 watched the game. Note: MSNBC tried to televise it but had difficulty.  That would have made the number 117,341.  ;)

[quote name="AggiesAreWe" post="959879" timestamp="1296672029"] [quote author=LAZEEK link=topic=79482.msg959867#msg959867 date=1296671623] [quote author=AggiesAreWe link=topic=79482.msg959822#msg959822 date=1296668622] [quote author=LAZEEK link=topic=79482.msg959821#msg959821 date=1296668554] What was attendance for HJ @ Silsbee??  [/quote] 17,340 [/quote] Seriously!!!!!! [/quote] 1582, officially. [/quote]So how did the 15,758 unofficially get in?  Did someone leave the backdoor unlocked?

[quote name="stevenash" post="959794" timestamp="1296667435"] My guess is that he meant this:  At each of these two games, people were turned away at both gyms not to mention how many decided not to go because they knew how difficult it would be to get in.  He probably theorized that those who watched the girls could have easily been replaced with those who were either turned away or didnt go due to attendance conditions.  I suppose that, additionally, you would need to consider potential additional concession stand revenues, etc.  He probably  believes that more total people are willing to attend one of two, four hour venues as opposed to a single 6 hour venue.  He probably also believes that the referee costs are the same whether at one location or two. He could additionally believe that the TOTAL (both schools combined) cost of sending all of the teams from Silsbee to HJ is no greater than sending half of the teams from HJ to Silsbee and the other half from Silsbee to HJ over a home and home series. [/quote]That's a might big assumption of "what he may have meant".  ;) Referees cost less.... no additional mileage.  Add to that lights, janitorial staff, and all, and I think that he may have meant that its wonderful for the girls to get to play in front of people other than their parents.

[quote name="Malcolm X" post="959856" timestamp="1296670837"] [IMG][Hidden Content]] [/quote]If you remember the continuation of this play, you might realize that this may have been the wrong picture to post.  ;)

[quote name="stevenash" post="959724" timestamp="1296664390"] [quote author=FanintheStands link=topic=79482.msg959650#msg959650 date=1296659816] [quote author=tigerpride81 link=topic=79482.msg959085#msg959085 date=1296607690] The new district policy of playing both boys and girls at same venue is tolerable except for the HJ and Silsbee matchup.  Rather than help with fan attendance, it only hurts ... the schools are loosing valuable gate ($$$$$) revenue on the both the boys & girls side as both schools turn out their fans.  Also, fans loose out by being locked out ... absurd that the district's UIL committee would have concocted such a plan without considering all the consequences. [/quote]What does the boys and girls at the same venue have anything to do with the packed house? [/quote] Looks to me like his concern is possible lost revenue for the schools.  He didn't say anything about the packed house.  [/quote]Well, the packed house was implied because he referenced the "HJ - Silsbee" game. But where is the lost revenue?  The girls game can not be paying for themselves when you consider the extra busing, the elcectricity, the referees, and all the other costs just so that the girls parents can watch a game. No, I think the benefits far outweigh any non-existent lost revenue.  Our girls played in front of a packed house last night.  Good for them!!!!  8)

[quote name="BADSANTA" post="959744" timestamp="1296665308"] True but yall are losing Gus, Sutherland, 32, and a few on the bench. Bosha and Prudhomme will have to score a lot more next year. [/quote]I think next year will be an upyear for HJ.  They will miss Gus and Sutherland, but there will be some talent coming up.  I'd be happy to see this coincide with a downyear for Silsbee.  

[quote name="tigerpride81" post="959085" timestamp="1296607690"] The new district policy of playing both boys and girls at same venue is tolerable except for the HJ and Silsbee matchup.  Rather than help with fan attendance, it only hurts ... the schools are loosing valuable gate ($$$$$) revenue on the both the boys & girls side as both schools turn out their fans.  Also, fans loose out by being locked out ... absurd that the district's UIL committee would have concocted such a plan without considering all the consequences. [/quote]What does the boys and girls at the same venue have anything to do with the packed house?

[quote name="ST413" post="959531" timestamp="1296625339"] Two huge stats. The second team for the Tigers was huge at the end of the third quarter.  I would bet theynhad most of those steals.  Lane finally had his big night against the Hawks as well.  Great game, great atmosphere!!   Congratulations to my Tigers!  [/quote]I think you're right.  All the steal came late 3rd and early 4th.  Those hurt, because HJ never got back into their offense.  And you are correct about Lane.  For some reason, he's never had a good night against HJ - this year and last year (if I remember correctly).  He opened up with a 3 for Silsbee and I began to think, "Uh-oh".

Great game.... Great atmosphere!!!! HJ corrected the two big problems they had in the 1st game - stayed out of foul trouble and they managed to keep their stamina up. However, Silsbee turned up the heat on defense and HJ was not prepared for it.  I also noticed that Silsbee was more focused tonight.  You could tell from the beginning.

[quote name="bullets13" post="958836" timestamp="1296589217"] [quote author=stevenash link=topic=79482.msg958835#msg958835 date=1296589099] [quote author=BADSANTA link=topic=79482.msg958814#msg958814 date=1296588509] Silsbee just had a 6'10 kid enroll in school today from Dallas. He is a junior. [/quote] If he is playing tonight, I will bet that PoppaBear may want to consider his 13 point victory prediction.  Now that we know he is 6'10 has it been established that he is a basketball player?  Assuming he is, is he a good player? [/quote] correction.  it was actually two stacked midgets wearing a trench coat because of the cold conditions.  but yes, they DO play basketball [/quote]That's all we need - trash-talkin' midgets to deal with.  ;D

[quote name="snooker" post="958801" timestamp="1296587949"] lot has to happen for a big upset ... you have to make the decision before the game ever starts. -- if png is primaraly a half court zone team then i dont see why i would come out for one possession. even if i were just playing not to lose in regulation. if png were a pressure D team then i would have cont. to play the same.  take all those percentages and throw em out. its about having a feel for your team as a coach. -- looks like the best team won from what i can tell(which is usually what happens anyway) [/quote]That's good to say, but ask any coach that you know whether they ever look at percentages or chances of success during a game.  For instance, towards the end of the game, if a team is ahead by 1 or 2 points and they are at the free throw line with 2 seconds left -  What does the coach do?  He takes his players away from the free throw line.  Why?  Because he knows that [b]there is a chance[/b] his players can foul and give the other team free throws.  You see what I mean? Percentages, baby!  Percentages! A coach that "takes all those percentages and throws them out" is a coach with a short tenure.  They don't have to "go by the odds" at all times.  No, they still have their instincts as you mentioned,  but they should always weigh those odds.

[quote name="Versey Ledbetter" post="958624" timestamp="1296578058"] I still don't understand why anyone thinks PN-G had a better chance of beating Nederland in OT (if the game goes to OT, which it didn't) than they did playing out the last 90 seconds of regulation time. [/quote]Thank you!!!!  I was wondering if I was merely spitting in the wind.

[quote name="stevenash" post="958534" timestamp="1296571915"] What are the odds that the coach of a team is better equipped to make a decision on how to deal with a last minute game situation as opposed to an observer who does not coach for a living? [/quote]You know, there is only one way to know that answer.  If PNG is in the exact same situation, I would be willing to bet that he wouldn't make the same decision. The odds are that a coach is better equipped, that's why he's in the position.  But the odds are that I disagree with his decision.  It ain't no big deal, its just not the decision that I would have made and I've stated why as clearly as possible. 

[quote name="stevenash" post="958533" timestamp="1296571789"] It was me asking you about from whence your percentages came and not Speechless.  Since you did not provide an answer, why would you request same from someone else?(even though I happen to know that Speechless has a much larger statistical sample to draw from than most)  Personally, I also do not think that the odds of winning in overtime are distributed evenly.  If Silsbee goes into overtime with West Orange or Hamshire Fannett, (or for Vegas line makers sake if the Lakers go into overtime against the Wizards) I dont think the odds will be listed at 50-50. [/quote]And I think I've given you all the odds to your questions.  Please feel free to reiterate, for its hard to keep track. Regarding those overtime odds, yes, I felt I was being generous to PNG.  Every one on this site knows that Nederland is better, and should have a better chance than 50-50 in overtime. Which only stands to reason that the PNG coach should have tried to avoid overtime.  Instead he was trying to play for overtime. Regarding the stall, I would have probably allowed it if there were 20 seconds or so on the clock, but 90 seconds is simply too much time.  There is too much that can happen.