FanintheStands

Hmmm..... I keep going into Setxsports.com and clicking on the Boys Basketball Forum and I keep coming to this thread.  Something must be wrong.

[quote name="bmtcpa87" post="941355" timestamp="1294062674"] Final score was 68-49 Kelly.  Leading scorers for Kelly were Taylor Pace with 20, Josh Kern with 12 and Andrew Messina with 11.  And yes the refs were 30 minutes late, but through three quarters more fouls were called on Kelly than Orangefield so I'm not sure what he is complaining about.  [/quote]I wasn't aware "bad refereeing" meant your side got called for more fouls than the other. I thought "bad refereeing" meant that the referees made bad calls, or didn't make calls that they should have.  Thanks for clearing that up.  ;)

[quote name="BADSANTA" post="941400" timestamp="1294069058"] Back to the subject! Which school has the most all-state basketball players? I don't know a whole lot besides 4-5 HJ players. I know Silsbee has had a dozen or more. [/quote]So, what you are saying is that, HJ (with 3 state titles) has done more with less? Sounds to me like HJ has had better coaches, eh?  ;)

I'm sorry.  I thought I was in a Basketball Forum. My bad.........................

[quote name="D WADE" post="940874" timestamp="1293941629"] If evadale gets past HF i look for them to win out the rest of thier regular season however i do not believe it will be a good thing for the rebels becase the district is very weak this year with team such as Big Sandy, and HD and Sabine pass being on down years come playoff time i think the rebels will struggle with the talent level all of a sudden being equal to theres, because they will be used to being able to do pretty much what they want to against the weaker teams in the district, it actually hurts them with spurger being moved out of the district this year in my openion [/quote]You may have a point, but I think the Rebels will not suffer too much, simply because they had a killer tournament schedule - one in which they performed rather admirably, if you ask me.

[quote name="BADSANTA" post="940666" timestamp="1293919629"] Do you think it would be wise to discontinue your football program and just play year round basketball. It seems you never win anything in football. I say just scrap the entire program and make a 9 month long basketball season. This way you will have enough time to prepare for this Tiger butt wooping you will get on Janaury 14th. Let's play ball!!!! [/quote]BadSanta,  after looking at this thread, I've come to fully appreciate why your initials just happen to be  "B.S.".  ;) Good night, and have a pleasant tomorrow!!!

[quote name="BADSANTA" post="940525" timestamp="1293856773"] Faninthestand nice point now get your boogy on for New Years! I'm out for the night! [/quote]Happy New Years, Santa!!! I'll be looking for that Tiger shirt at the Silsbee-HJ game!!!! Come by and say, Hi!!! You can't miss me.  I'll be the dude rooting for those Hawks!!!!  ;)

[quote name="east texas bb" post="940519" timestamp="1293856208"] What does that have to do with what we were talking about? And Logic is basically common sense so it is simple.   And I dont suggest any one be castigated or casturated or both!!  People were making staements, from those statements a conclusion was drawn.  You ask me why you should be thrown out for your opinion, I didnt say you should, I took two statements and from those statements came up with a conclusion.  Then I said that what else could you gather from those two statements. [/quote]And I simply explained that your conclusion is illogical.  The examples I gave had the same coaches and the same teams and within a few days, there was more than a 20 point swing in each set of games.   That would lead the perceptive person to realize that there is more than simply good coaching to make a 15-20 point swing in a game. Now, as every HJ fan on this thread has indicated, the Silsbee coaches are very, very good.  We happen to think that the HJ coaches are better.  But no one has come close to saying that the HJ coaches are 15-20 points better than the Silsbee coaches.  That has been your conclusion and only yours, and it has led others (aka BadSanta, for example) to claim all HJ fans are arrogant.

[quote name="east texas bb" post="940515" timestamp="1293855415"] The claim was Silsbee was a better basketball team by 15-20 points.  Then people were saying that HJ would still find a way to win.  What else can you get from those two statements.  That is the writing that is on the wall, I am just reading it.  If HJ still wins and Silsbee's team is a 15-20 point better team then would their coaches not be 15-20 points better?  That is simple logic. [/quote]Well, its simple......... but I wouldn't call it logic. You forget that damn intangible that can cause a 20 point swing, that coaches have no control over. Take the HJ tournament with HJ and Cayuga.  2 days apart and there is a 15-20 point swing.  Or the HJ and EC matchup.  5 days apart and a 30 point swing. 

[quote name="east texas bb" post="940500" timestamp="1293853421"] [quote author=FanintheStands link=topic=78065.msg940473#msg940473 date=1293848356] [quote author=east texas bb link=topic=78065.msg940470#msg940470 date=1293847721] And what do you consider an athlete?  Someone that is quick and fast and that can jump high?  There are way more attributes of athletic ability than those describes above.  Putting a ball in a basket from 21 feet away with defense on you has to be hard, hitting a 85-90 mph fastball can be a very hard thing to do, making a pass between two people on the run for a layup and balance and hand eye coordination can be athletic charcteristics. I guess I am the devils advocate, but I am trying to get to the root of the reason why everyone thinks HJ can play with Silsbee if they are 15-20 points better. [/quote]It's pure and simple.  As it has been said before, when HJ jogs out on the court, they don't look like they can hang with Silsbee.  It's been like that for the last 4 (or so) years.  In the play-offs, its no different.  Navasota and Cleveland look like they can mop the floor with our players, but they end up driving home to sit the rest of the year off. I understand but that is a kid talking, I would hope that we would be a better judge than them.  All most kids see is if a team is athletic looking and this determines what they think.  Adults that understand basketball should be able to recognize whether a team is good or not, so in all I have gathered the Hj coaches are 15-20 point better coaches than Silsbee's coaches or the team from Dallas just dosent understand basketball.  Then why dont the coaches at HJ apply at Silsbee and they can go to state for sure every year.  I understand this is all talking but either HJ can beat Silsbee or Silsbee can beat HJ. Everyone is saying that Silsbee is a better team somewhere in the range of 15-20 points.    There was a funny incident at the East Chambers tournament three years ago that seems to illustrate my point.  At the beginning of the game, HJ was at the free throw line shooting two.  One of the players from a Dallas school (couldn't remember the name) asked one of the HJ players "aren't you guys ranked 3rd in state?".  The Hawks replied that yes they were.  Looking at the players for HJ and at the bench, the Dallas player asked, "Are you guys missing some players for today's game?"  The Hawk just replied and said, "Nope".  HJ ended up winning 109-29!!! [/quote] I understand but that is a kid talking, I would hope that we would be a better judge than them.  All most kids see is if a team is athletic looking and this determines what they think.  Adults that understand basketball should be able to recognize whether a team is good or not, so in all I have gathered the Hj coaches are 15-20 point better coaches than Silsbee's coaches or the team from Dallas just dosent understand basketball.  Then why dont the coaches at HJ apply at Silsbee and they can go to state for sure every year.  I understand this is all talking but either HJ can beat Silsbee or Silsbee can beat HJ. Everyone is saying that Silsbee is a better team somewhere in the range of 15-20 points. We will just see what the scores turn out to be. [/quote]I'm curious, who has made the claim that the HJ coaches are 15-20 points better than the Silsbee coaches?  I thought that you asked does HJ have any edge, and the claim was made that the HJ coaches are better.  Should anyone be castigated for having an opinion?  Wow!

[quote name="AggiesAreWe" post="940474" timestamp="1293848487"] Record the last 4 years (these are the years that these teams have been in the same district)               HJ w's          Silsbee w's '07           2                     1 '08           2                     2 '09           1                     2 '10           1                     2 Over all, Silsbee leads 7-6 in that span. Tigers have won 5 of last 7 though. ;) [/quote]You know, I don't think anyone at HJ is trying to belittle the Silsbee coaching staff.  I recall in 08, HJ came from over 10 points behind twice to win their home district game and then the district championship game (at the Montagne).  They also came back from over 10 points behind to almost steal away the game in Silsbee (I remember, we got away with a bad travel and double dribble at the end of the game and came up just short on the winning three pointer...... It would have been bedlam if we had made the shot.  That was the same night the JV got into a fight) Anyway, in the Regional final, Silsbee stormed out to a 18-2 lead (or something like that).  HJ battled back to take a 6 or an 8 point lead and was THIS CLOSE to breaking Silsbee's back and blowing them away.  Silsbee recouped and won the game.  Kudos go to the coaches for not letting Silsbee fall apart after blowing that huge lead.

[quote name="east texas bb" post="940470" timestamp="1293847721"] And what do you consider an athlete?  Someone that is quick and fast and that can jump high?  There are way more attributes of athletic ability than those describes above.  Putting a ball in a basket from 21 feet away with defense on you has to be hard, hitting a 85-90 mph fastball can be a very hard thing to do, making a pass between two people on the run for a layup and balance and hand eye coordination can be athletic charcteristics. I guess I am the devils advocate, but I am trying to get to the root of the reason why everyone thinks HJ can play with Silsbee if they are 15-20 points better. [/quote]It's pure and simple.  As it has been said before, when HJ jogs out on the court, they don't look like they can hang with Silsbee.  It's been like that for the last 4 (or so) years.  In the play-offs, its no different.  Navasota and Cleveland look like they can mop the floor with our players, but they end up driving home to sit the rest of the year off. There was a funny incident at the East Chambers tournament three years ago that seems to illustrate my point.  At the beginning of the game, HJ was at the free throw line shooting two.  One of the players from a Dallas school (couldn't remember the name) asked one of the HJ players "aren't you guys ranked 3rd in state?".  The Hawks replied that yes they were.  Looking at the players for HJ and at the bench, the Dallas player asked, "Are you guys missing some players for today's game?"  The Hawk just replied and said, "Nope".  HJ ended up winning 109-29!!!

[quote name="SHS_Mayor" post="940371" timestamp="1293832356"] The Westbrook court is terrible every game played there is like a slip an slided for them to be a 5A something needs to be done [/quote]That's their number 1 priority........uh, after they finish with the new hotel.  ;)

[quote name="hjhawks" post="940174" timestamp="1293779715"] I LOVE the band at WOS home games.... the blare their school song... (kinda sounds like the theme to the lone ranger) and it is so loud it makes the hair stand up on your neck... I think HJ will have a band at several district games this season... [/quote]HJ just needs to bring their percussion group.  That would have the gym rockin'!  Unfortunately, the drum section was the best part of the HJ football games.

[quote name="east texas bb" post="940135" timestamp="1293769647"] Im not trying to start anything, but it takes a basketball purist to enjoy and really understand the Buna games or the Huntington game.  I heard alot of things from different people after the Huntington game on both sides, but I found out that the people that KNEW the game enjoyed it and really relished it.  And it was not Huntington intentions for the game to be that low in score, the coaches felt the best opportunity to win was to pull Woodville out and make them guard them in a whole half court.  Woodville did not come out and guard them so they held the ball. If Woodville would have come out and guarding them they could have tried to score. I do the same thing with my Youth League team and my son, they sit back in a zone at 8 years old and want us to shoot 3 pointers.  Not many 2nd graders can shoot a 3 with correct form, so when we get a 6-8 point lead I tell my son to hold the ball and make them come guard him.  It opens up the whole game when they have to guard you in the entire halfcourt.  It is more of a strategy thing, no coach is going to hold the ball and pass up uncontested layups.  If the defense will come out and guard them then coaches will play the game and try to get the best scoring opportunities.  [/quote]Being a Buna alumni, I gotta admit, I'm proud of those guys.  But alas, it was before my time, so I didn't get to see any of it.  But they said that Buna would beat all the 4A (which was the max classification back then) schools.  It was weird looking at 8-6 and 12-8 scores. I don't know, but it doesn't make for a gym-packer of a game.  I'd get more out of watching a good game of curling or what-not. But then again, I played two years of full court pressure/run and gun style basketball at Buna and we never made the play-offs.  Unfortunately, we were in the same district as those damn HJ Hawks (well, at least I thought they were damned back then!).

[quote name="BIGMO44" post="940120" timestamp="1293767258"] [quote author=Sportz-Fanatic link=topic=78007.msg939499#msg939499 date=1293662819] [quote author=BADSANTA link=topic=78007.msg939484#msg939484 date=1293661794] They ran the score up so much on Hemphill, it should be on the cover of the BMT Enterprise. The title should read "Kountze sure knows how to run that score up. Ask Hemphill"! [/quote] Burkeville had 3rd team in the whole 2nd half when they played Hemphill and still couldnt stop from scoring. Hemphill is just not a good ball club. Score was not like the Kountze game but it could have been. [/quote]Burkeville has a 3rd team?!  Wow, not bad for a DIV II 1A. [/quote]Well, actually I think it was their Glee Club who was on their Christmas Trip.  The only way the school could take them out to eat was if they hid the money in their basketball budget.

That was the average score of a Buna game in the 60's when they won their state titles.  Seems to me that watching paint dry would be more interesting.... at least you get to inhale the fumes!

[quote name="stevenash" post="939674" timestamp="1293682667"] [quote author=FanintheStands link=topic=78063.msg939666#msg939666 date=1293681527] I agree that Coach English deserves to be on the list, but how can you even start the list without including some coaches with State titles?!?!? Sutherland and Joubert fit that bill.  And, though he doesn't have any state titles, Coach Williams does have what, 2 or 3 state appearances? C'mon, Man! [/quote] There are plenty of good coaches without state titles. [/quote]I don't recall claiming otherwise.  I even included two of them. But how can you even start the list without looking at coaches with multiple state titles?!? C'mon, Man!

[quote name="bmrm" post="939681" timestamp="1293683086"] [quote author=FanintheStands link=topic=78065.msg939667#msg939667 date=1293681670] [quote author=HJ2012 link=topic=78065.msg939664#msg939664 date=1293681462] [quote author=bmrm link=topic=78065.msg939648#msg939648 date=1293679668] [quote author=BADSANTA link=topic=78065.msg939640#msg939640 date=1293678193] Maybe apples and oranges but who has the advantage? [/quote] On paper, Silsbee unfortunately(no offense to you Tiger fans but I'm an HJ supporter), but as they say, it's why they play the game.  I have complete faith that Coach Sutherland, Davis & Lee will have a game plan that will at least give Silsbee some problems.  It may not lead to victories for HJ but it will certainly give Silsbee some fits.    [/quote] Agreed, if HJ were to beat Silsbee & win district it would be an upset.  Although HJ doesn't have a problem finishing second in district, it wouldn't surprise me to see them advance to at least the regional finals.    [/quote]It would be nice to be able to take the easy road through the play-offs for a change.  Let Silsbee have Cleveland and Navasota for once!  My blood pressure could use a year off!! [/quote] Tell me!  I have had more than enough grief facing Navasota & Cleveland the last few years!!!  [/quote]Yeah, but you gotta admit..... it's fun going in "with not even a prayer of winning" and watching the other team go home with the heads hanging down "once again"!!!!

[quote name="HJ2012" post="939664" timestamp="1293681462"] [quote author=bmrm link=topic=78065.msg939648#msg939648 date=1293679668] [quote author=BADSANTA link=topic=78065.msg939640#msg939640 date=1293678193] Maybe apples and oranges but who has the advantage? [/quote] On paper, Silsbee unfortunately(no offense to you Tiger fans but I'm an HJ supporter), but as they say, it's why they play the game.  I have complete faith that Coach Sutherland, Davis & Lee will have a game plan that will at least give Silsbee some problems.  It may not lead to victories for HJ but it will certainly give Silsbee some fits.    [/quote] Agreed, if HJ were to beat Silsbee & win district it would be an upset.  Although HJ doesn't have a problem finishing second in district, it wouldn't surprise me to see them advance to at least the regional finals.    [/quote]It would be nice to be able to take the easy road through the play-offs for a change.  Let Silsbee have Cleveland and Navasota for once!  My blood pressure could use a year off!!

I agree that Coach English deserves to be on the list, but how can you even start the list without including some coaches with State titles?!?!? Sutherland and Joubert fit that bill.  And, though he doesn't have any state titles, Coach Williams does have what, 2 or 3 state appearances? C'mon, Man!

[quote name="bmrm" post="939656" timestamp="1293680602"] I hear ya "Fan" but my youngest son competes against this HF team and has not fared too well.  Obviously I hope this changes but it would not surprise me for HF to win district in the next three or four years.  [/quote]You forget one thing.  7th & 8th (and AAU) are all about talent of the players.  Varsity ball is talent AND coaching.

[quote name="bmrm" post="939641" timestamp="1293678562"] [quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=78053.msg939632#msg939632 date=1293677736] Can anybody beat these guys around here? Sheez! Time for a new kid on the block. [/quote] Dont worry Dove the horns will be competing for district in two years.  [/quote]Well, of course.  But only because that will be HJ's 6th annual rebuilding year.  ;)

A good point guard is one that best fits his system.  What makes a point guard effective for one team, may not help out others. You know, in retrospect, I think I just repeated what basketball2016 just said................

It looks like HJ is starting to get their 2nd half legs.  I remember they used to come out swinging in the 3rd quarter, but in the last year or so, that hasn't happened as often. I don't know, maybe its just me.