stevenash

[quote name="5 on 5" post="1078412" timestamp="1318199864"] [quote author=stevenash link=topic=89371.msg1078403#msg1078403 date=1318199391] [quote author=5 on 5 link=topic=89371.msg1078400#msg1078400 date=1318199018] As for high school basketball.....I for one do not like to weight. I am getting tired of weighting, and don't think I can weight much more. As for the NBA it looks like we will have to weight a whole year. ;D [/quote] Maybe those NBA players will join some cross country teams this season. [/quote] I do know for a fact Perkins has been in the gym hittin the weights pretty regularly lately, but I can't vouch for his cross country routine.  ;) [/quote] Weights are the right thing for him  I don't imagine he would break any speed or endurance records on the cross country course.

[quote name="5 on 5" post="1078400" timestamp="1318199018"] As for high school basketball.....I for one do not like to weight. I am getting tired of weighting, and don't think I can weight much more. As for the NBA it looks like we will have to weight a whole year. ;D [/quote] Maybe those NBA players will join some cross country teams this season.

[quote name="BLUEDOVE3" post="1078228" timestamp="1318188360"] [quote author=5 on 5 link=topic=89266.msg1076268#msg1076268 date=1318038229] [quote author=PoppaBearstarr link=topic=89266.msg1075738#msg1075738 date=1318016695] You all are far too sciency, all this talk about red and white muscle fibers and to twitch or not twitch, man we just want to put the ball in the hole more than the other team.  :D [/quote] You're right! And if the bball season doesnt get here fast we are all gonna be "twitchin" ;D [/quote]no shiggidy! CaN BaReLy typ e skRaightt now. My Finger SHakInG [/quote] That's only because you haven't been doing enough "writing specific" exercises.

[quote name="5 on 5" post="1077170" timestamp="1318090895"] [quote author=stevenash link=topic=89266.msg1077154#msg1077154 date=1318089148] [quote author=5 on 5 link=topic=89266.msg1076759#msg1076759 date=1318045754] [quote author=stevenash link=topic=89266.msg1075574#msg1075574 date=1318004734] [quote author=tokenwb link=topic=89266.msg1075274#msg1075274 date=1317954294] In Silsbee, the basketball players that do not play football run with the Cross Country team every day after school.  They also combine this with speed drills.  This type of conditioning will pay off. [/quote] YOu may not want to post this type of information.  If bball players are working out with cross country team after school but do not participate in any meets, that is a big no-no in the eyes of the UIL. [/quote] Just wondering why you post this, and then yourself ask me why wouldnt bballl players participate in the cross country program after school. You confusing me Nash . See, even UIL knows basketball players shouldn't run cross country!  ;D ;D [/quote] Hmmm- Let me see.  Basketball players participate in cross country practice AND meets as well.  Competition is good for them, they improve endurance, and the UIL is happy.  Excuse me, but it would seem that this conclusion is not rocket science. [/quote] I agree, it's not rocket science. Simply put, these "basketball" players are running cross country to prepare them for the cross country meets, not for basketball games. Again, sport specific training. Nash, it seems you keep making my point for me, but you simply refuse to agree with me.  ;D ;D Let me say I really have nothing against cross country running, and I know it has many benefits. Again, my point is simply that it is not the BEST mode of conditioning for BASKETBALL players.  OK, time to take break and watch OU/TU. I have enjoyed the debate maybe we can continue over on the "Weights" thread.  :) [/quote] I too am watching texas-ou-  I too have also personally seen/experienced the benefits of cross country for basketball players/teams.  Whats best for a player/team is what works and not necessarily what a "study" says/implies.  Additionally, it has NEVER been my contention that cross country, by itself is the end all/be all.  However, it does provide benefits.  I've seen it too many times.

[quote name="5 on 5" post="1076759" timestamp="1318045754"] [quote author=stevenash link=topic=89266.msg1075574#msg1075574 date=1318004734] [quote author=tokenwb link=topic=89266.msg1075274#msg1075274 date=1317954294] In Silsbee, the basketball players that do not play football run with the Cross Country team every day after school.  They also combine this with speed drills.  This type of conditioning will pay off. [/quote] YOu may not want to post this type of information.  If bball players are working out with cross country team after school but do not participate in any meets, that is a big no-no in the eyes of the UIL. [/quote] Just wondering why you post this, and then yourself ask me why wouldnt bballl players participate in the cross country program after school. You confusing me Nash . See, even UIL knows basketball players shouldn't run cross country!  ;D ;D [/quote] Hmmm- Let me see.  Basketball players participate in cross country practice AND meets as well.  Competition is good for them, they improve endurance, and the UIL is happy.  Excuse me, but it would seem that this conclusion is not rocket science.

I guess we will just have to wait and see how far the Panthers and Hawks go in their respective divisions.  HJ played Wheatley a few years ago in a warm up game and their was no dominance whatsoever.  Dove, for a guy who prides himself on being "old school" you sure are hard on me when I bring up somebody from another era

[quote name="BLUEDOVE3" post="1075748" timestamp="1318017685"] [quote author=stevenash link=topic=89266.msg1075664#msg1075664 date=1318010576] [quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=89266.msg1075662#msg1075662 date=1318010101] [quote author=stevenash link=topic=89266.msg1075584#msg1075584 date=1318005102] [Hidden Content] people training for 5k's which is what CC is do sprint work twice a week.....they have to train both fast twitch and slow twitch fibers....anyone that has seen someone run a 5k in a good time knows that these guys are running 6 min miles on top of each other....if you have ever run a 6 minute mile you know it involves fast twitch fibers....there is nothing that is not explosive about a 6 minute mile [/quote]It makes them better twitch runners, not basketball players. [/quote] Dove- Go back and look up a basketball player named John Havlicek,( Ohio State/Boston Celtics/13 time NBA All Star/ 8 time NBA Champion) who, at the time, was regarded as one of the best conditioned athletes in the world.  He was a superior basketball player and it was NOT because of his explosiveness or jumping ability or general athletecism..  His endurance paid huge dividends for him and he was still at full speed when everybody else was fading. [/quote]Nash, do you still watch those old games[color=red] DURING THE 90'S [/color]and see how SLOW those guys are compared to the kids today? And you wanna bring up Havlichek? I saw you on the other day from the early 2000's. Give it up!  ;D [/quote] Yada yada yada-  And Bird was too slow and couldnt jump for his time either.

Dove- You mentioned the Dallas Schools who dropped to 3-a.  Why arent they dominating the State Tourney each year like you think the Houston Schools will?

[quote name="BLUEDOVE3" post="1075662" timestamp="1318010101"] [quote author=stevenash link=topic=89266.msg1075584#msg1075584 date=1318005102] [Hidden Content] people training for 5k's which is what CC is do sprint work twice a week.....they have to train both fast twitch and slow twitch fibers....anyone that has seen someone run a 5k in a good time knows that these guys are running 6 min miles on top of each other....if you have ever run a 6 minute mile you know it involves fast twitch fibers....there is nothing that is not explosive about a 6 minute mile [/quote]It makes them better twitch runners, not basketball players. [/quote] Dove- Go back and look up a basketball player named John Havlicek,( Ohio State/Boston Celtics/13 time NBA All Star/ 8 time NBA Champion) who, at the time, was regarded as one of the best conditioned athletes in the world.  He was a superior basketball player and it was NOT because of his explosiveness or jumping ability or general athletecism..  His endurance paid huge dividends for him and he was still at full speed when everybody else was fading.

[quote name="no-look" post="1075434" timestamp="1317993305"] [quote author=AggiesAreWe link=topic=89340.msg1074447#msg1074447 date=1317865997] [quote author=no-look link=topic=89340.msg1074405#msg1074405 date=1317863428] Any surprises this year?  Mexia has their stud back I believe. Not sure what Athens lost... Then there's that weak district 21 3A...lol....18 3A should be better overall but dont see any powerhouse teams.... [/quote] Sealy. Everybody back including Ricky Seals-Jones. [/quote]Who beat Sealy last year? I have slept since then. [/quote] Was it the Red Devils?

[Hidden Content] people training for 5k's which is what CC is do sprint work twice a week.....they have to train both fast twitch and slow twitch fibers....anyone that has seen someone run a 5k in a good time knows that these guys are running 6 min miles on top of each other....if you have ever run a 6 minute mile you know it involves fast twitch fibers....there is nothing that is not explosive about a 6 minute mile

[quote name="BLUEDOVE3" post="1075559" timestamp="1318003844"] Here is a proposal I'm hearing: Furr, Jones, Kashmere, Scarborough, Washington, Worthing, and Yates would form a 3A district. Any combination of the ABOVE MENTIONED, and I'm quoting  "teams could be competing with the likes of Cleveland, Silsbee, Stafford, etc for Region 3 supremacy." Dang, they left HJ out of the mix ::)  I bet people thought the Dallas schools would never drop down to 3-A  ;) [/quote] Dove, you really think RCA sports knows what it's talking about?  Jim Hicks love to speculate just to stir it up.

[quote name="5 on 5" post="1075161" timestamp="1317948590"] [quote author=tamulonghorn link=topic=89266.msg1075149#msg1075149 date=1317948048] thats odd last i checked anaerobis had to do with heart rate and not what exercise it is [/quote] Aerobic or anaerobic refers to the "energy system" being utilized in the specific exercise/activity. [/quote] You clearly understand "energy systems" and the difference between "red and white muscle fibers".  However, it is obvious that what you don't understand is the UIL rules and limitations with out of season workouts.  Outside of the season a coach cannot coach his kids in that sport (ex:  basketball in the fall).  However, a coach CAN coach his kids during the athletic period each day (in any sport all year long).  We all agree that this time of year basketball players need to spend time getting in shape for their season.  So, should a basketball coach use his court time during the athletic period to condition or to develop skills?  The ideal answer would be both but, as we have discussed earlier strength and conditioning are a large part of a successful program and with an athletic period only being 50 minutes to 1 hour there is hardly any way to do skills, strength, and  conditioning all in that time frame.  So what is the best solution?  Well, since cross country coincides with what is considered basketball pre-season then why wouldn't a coach have his kids be part of that program (especially if one of the basketball staff is the CC coach)where they can do their strength and conditioning after school and use the athletic period where the coach can coach them for basketball skill development?

[quote name="tokenwb" post="1075274" timestamp="1317954294"] In Silsbee, the basketball players that do not play football run with the Cross Country team every day after school.  They also combine this with speed drills.  This type of conditioning will pay off. [/quote] YOu may not want to post this type of information.  If bball players are working out with cross country team after school but do not participate in any meets, that is a big no-no in the eyes of the UIL.

[quote name="BLUEDOVE3" post="1075554" timestamp="1318003500"] [quote author=stevenash link=topic=89266.msg1075526#msg1075526 date=1318001346] [quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=89266.msg1075417#msg1075417 date=1317991427] [quote author=sleepy link=topic=89266.msg1075406#msg1075406 date=1317989959] I know one thing.  HJ's basketball players have participated in cross country for years.  Everyone on this board can admit that HJ never has the best athletes on the court.  The results speak for themselves! [/quote] LUCK  ;D [/quote] Consistent luck [/quote]Yall *luc* running out. Notice the missing "K." Represents time is running out  ;D Silsbee can't wait to beat HJ  :o [/quote] I never dispute your wisdom, Dove.  HJ will probably have a .500 district record this year- that is, if we are lucy(note the missing K)

[quote name="BLUEDOVE3" post="1075417" timestamp="1317991427"] [quote author=sleepy link=topic=89266.msg1075406#msg1075406 date=1317989959] I know one thing.  HJ's basketball players have participated in cross country for years.  Everyone on this board can admit that HJ never has the best athletes on the court.  The results speak for themselves! [/quote] LUCK  ;D [/quote] Consistent luck

[quote name="5 on 5" post="1075183" timestamp="1317950088"] [quote author=stevenash link=topic=89266.msg1075173#msg1075173 date=1317949400] Talk all you want about twitches and aerobic/anerobic.  The bottom line to me is the FACT that if some type of training improves a players conditioning, then he is gonna be better off toward the end of the game.  If he BELIEVES he has an advantage, he WILL likely have one.  At the high school level, its a different story.  You cannot do what Loyola Marymount does.  You have limited time and resources.  You go ahead and keep your hundred yard dash champion and I will keep the 5 K guy and we will just see who has plenty of gas after running up and down the floor for 90 minutes.  As for the NBA training, it is my  understanding that LeBrons main method of training is Yoga.  I am further guessing that Dirk Nowitzky, Paul Pierce,  Tim Duncan, and Kevin Durant among others, do very little sprint training.  I can remember some years ago when a tennis player named Bjorn Borg was technically incorrect in hitting the ball with an open stance.  All of the "experts" pronounced this method as inefficient and ineffective.  Today, EVERY player uses that method. [/quote] You say If you believe you have an advantage, you likely will. My opinion is that the better prepared athlete will have the advantage. If I believe I am faster than my opponent, am I? If I believe a can do a 360 slam dunk, can I? Don't we only wish that was true. You also mention "limited time and resources". Thank you, that is exactly my point that to be most efficient, athletes should train in a sport-specific manner. [/quote] Then the difference between you and me is what we each believe constitutes "better prepared".  IF we assume that the game has a mental and a physical aspect, it appears that you believe mostly in the physical part while I believe that you are underestimating the value of the mental aspect.  So, I am suggesting that the guy who believes he has plenty of gas left in the tank at the end of the game has an advantage if he believes he does.  I further suggest that cross country training provides the athlete with some extra mental toughness.  As for the limited time/resources comment: in all but the very largest schools, athletes participate in more than one sport.  Hence, it is much more likely that he can contribute materially to the schools athletic program via cross country participation than basketball specific training in the fall.

Talk all you want about twitches and aerobic/anerobic.  The bottom line to me is the FACT that if some type of training improves a players conditioning, then he is gonna be better off toward the end of the game.  If he BELIEVES he has an advantage, he WILL likely have one.  At the high school level, its a different story.  You cannot do what Loyola Marymount does.  You have limited time and resources.  You go ahead and keep your hundred yard dash champion and I will keep the 5 K guy and we will just see who has plenty of gas after running up and down the floor for 90 minutes.  As for the NBA training, it is my understanding that LeBrons main method of training is Yoga.  I am further guessing that Dirk Nowitzky, Paul Pierce,  Tim Duncan, and Kevin Durant among others, do very little sprint training.  I can remember some years ago when a tennis player named Bjorn Borg was technically incorrect in hitting the ball with an open stance.  All of the "experts" pronounced this method as inefficient and ineffective.  Today, EVERY player uses that method. 

Am ok with weights just as long as the llifting is overseen by the basketball staff rather than the football staff.

[Hidden Content]

[quote name="BLUEDOVE3" post="1075034" timestamp="1317937379"] [quote author=stevenash link=topic=89266.msg1075016#msg1075016 date=1317935674] [quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=89266.msg1074993#msg1074993 date=1317933166] Basketball is a running sport.  Running occurs in short, powerful bursts with quick starts and stops and also involves continual jumping and landing. And distance running fails to train the muscle fibers for quick, explosive movements. sOURCE: US Sports Academy & DA DOVE ;) [/quote] I have seen many an explosive sprinter on the basketball court who was totally out of gas at crunch time.  Source: Stevenash [/quote] Nash, come back to earth. Larry Bird is retired ;D [/quote] Yes, he is.  He did manage, however, to survive the rigors of the NBA rather successfully without concern for "twitches"

[quote name="BLUEDOVE3" post="1074993" timestamp="1317933166"] Basketball is a running sport.  Running occurs in short, powerful bursts with quick starts and stops and also involves continual jumping and landing. And distance running fails to train the muscle fibers for quick, explosive movements. sOURCE: US Sports Academy & DA DOVE ;) [/quote] I have seen many an explosive sprinter on the basketball court who was totally out of gas at crunch time.  Source: Stevenash

[quote name="LAZEEK" post="1074444" timestamp="1317865884"] HF will make it to state!!!!!! [/quote] AAW- In another thread, you labeled Lazeek as a smart man.  Was just wondering if his statement above reinforces your opinion.

He is better in any sport he pursues via his own conviction.

[quote name="BLUEDOVE3" post="1074857" timestamp="1317923541"] [quote author=nuthinbutnet link=topic=89266.msg1074855#msg1074855 date=1317923322] For what it is worth, I asked my son about this since he was on a team that the b-ball coach required the players to run cross country. He said that he felt that it did several things. 1) it helped them to be better physically prepared for 1st practice. Note: this school doesn't have football. 2) he felt like he could go the whole distance. He said he does not know if was mental or physical, but he felt that having ran CC before basketball did make a difference. This probably doesn't change anything on this board, but from a players view it did help him. [/quote]I don't think anyone is saying CC does not help. But I'm sure it helps you obtain CC skills ;) [/quote If the player "believes" it helps him, I can absolutely, unequivocally, assure you that it does, in fact, help him.