stevenash

Excuse me, now I think I understand you.  Let me see if I have it right.  The reason that a basketball program is better served with Universal Off Season than a basketball coach supervising and determining how and when to lift is- Barbers Hill teams made the playoffs in 14 of 16 sports last year.  Thank you.  It was my small minded thinking that the really great basketball programs are the ones that should be the models.  By the way, where do you have to finish these days in order to make the playoffs?

[quote name="WOSgrad" post="816205" timestamp="1278353584"] [quote author=True Blue link=topic=70692.msg816194#msg816194 date=1278342067] Well WOSgrad you have nothing to worry about. I know YOUR new Basketball coach will not be using Universal weight lifting program over there. He will not have his basketball players, during their season, out on the football feild pulling tires or pussing the sleads. So just set back and watch the HJ program and see if it workes for them. [/quote] Frankly, True Blue, I don't care how Coach Watkins proceeds...as long as it is legal and successful.  You see, my goal is complete dominance by WO-S.  I do wish to settle for one state trophy...I want Coach Hooks, Coach Watkins and Coach Riojas, as well as Coach Ragsdale, Coach Foreman and all of the other coaches, all hoisting state championship trophies. I want WO-S to have the best one act play, best debaters, best FFA, metal works at any contest.  Total dominance is my wish. As to just sitting back and seeing how the program works for H-F, that is what I intend to do and it should be what everyone else does.  If it does not show progress, I may very well join the chorus which opposes the program.  Until that time, I am not going to prematurely proclaim the death of a particular program. [/quote]  I will ask again (and you DID NOT answer)  Why wouldn't the basketball coach be better qualified to determine the time and amount of weight lifting that his players should do?

[quote name="WOSgrad" post="816190" timestamp="1278340989"] [quote author=speechless link=topic=70692.msg816180#msg816180 date=1278338408] no one is talkin bout what mangum did we talkin bout what price is gonna do and he gonna put all the kids in once class together and they gonna do what he wants all year long and what he wants aint got much to do with makin jump shots wut you think is better conditionin?  runnin up and down the floor playin or liftin weights?  which one of those gonna make sure that 15 footer dont fall short? [/quote] Okay, lets talk about what Price is going to do? First of all, let's look at the article. Again: [Hidden Content] What was he doing?  Talking with Principal Burris on how to what steps need to be taken to improve H-F in ALL sports!!!  What is one way to do that, have strength and conditioning in ALL boys and girls programs. What does he want?  For all programs to succeed. Is he an all encompassing ogre?  Not according to Coach Mahaffey! Face it, y'all are jumping to all of these assumptions that the program is being implemented only to support the football to the detriment of the other sports simply because the strength and conditioning program is being implemented by a football coach. [/quote]You are good at asking questions but simply wont answer any.  I ask you again_  Why wouldnt the babsketball coach be better qualified to determine the time and place of weight training for his players than the football coach?  Have you EVER heard any AD say anything other than he wants to improve all sports?  I also heard alot about "change we can believe in".  Sure sounded good, didn't it?

[quote name="WOSgrad" post="816172" timestamp="1278336153"] [quote author=stevenash link=topic=70692.msg816165#msg816165 date=1278332896] I dont know Mr. Price and have no feelings toward him one way or the other.  What I do know is that there is fairly compelling evidence that the standard Universal Off Season is fairly counterproductive for the basketball program.  Additionally, personally, I believe that weight lifting plays an important part of a basketball players development.  At the same time, I KNOW that weight lifting efforts should be done  at a time and place to be determined by the BASKETBALL coach.   [/quote] What is your compelling evidence? Second, how do we know that Coach Price has NOT solicited the input of all of the coaches...not only the basketball program, but baseball and soccer as well? [/quote]  Compelling evidence would be the success/lack of success that basketball programs employing Universal Off Season vs the success/lack of success of those using alternative methods  not to mention the opinions of most of the highly successful basketball coaches in the area.  Of course, you already know this but believe that, through a battle of semantics, you will be document the virtues of UOS, so proceed if you wish.  Soliciting input is great but, if all you are doing is soliciting before you proceed with your plans, it is simply a symbolic rather than substantive effort.  Whenever you get done with your cross examination, I want you to explain to me why the basetkball coach is not better qualified to prescribe a practice/workout regimen for his players rather than the football coach?

I dont know Mr. Price and have no feelings toward him one way or the other.  What I do know is that there is fairly compelling evidence that the standard Universal Off Season is fairly counterproductive for the basketball program.  Additionally, personally, I believe that weight lifting plays an important part of a basketball players development.  At the same time, I KNOW that weight lifting efforts should be done  at a time and place to be determined by the BASKETBALL coach. 

[quote name="WOSgrad" post="816135" timestamp="1278299196"] Well, why don't we wait until after one season under the direction of Coach Price before criticizing his methods?  I'm not real familiar with the universal off season program, but it appears that the manner in which Coach Price organized it in Barbers Hill was a bit more successful than Coach Mangan's administration of it at H-F.  Forgive me H-F folks, but is not as if the football program was benefiting at the expense of basketball under this program.  The 2009 H-F football team lost all 10 games that it played, scored over 20 points only once and gave up more than 40 points eight times.  So if the universal off season program was meant to benefit the football team, it didn't work. [/quote] So you are saying it didnt help anybody last year but its going to be a great deal  for the upcoming seasons?

[quote name="Bucof2010" post="816129" timestamp="1278297074"] Lol Idk a whole lot about 1-a but you take off EC and Anahuac of the past few years you don't have much on that list I know I know Buna has accomplished more than any two of those teams but we're out of the stone age now [/quote] And one would also need to ask what has been accomplished at EC after departure of Tremain Thomas

[quote name="Bucof2010" post="816125" timestamp="1278294772"] I count 1.5 successful teams on that list [/quote]. Careful now.  Even though u know very well what u r talking about, u r about to be accused if crying( not because u r but because accuser is incapable of any orher comment)

[quote author=tigerguy link=topic=70692.msg816122#msg816122 date=1278290898] Another baby cries! :'( :'( :'( :'( [/quote Which baby would that be?  Oh, I understand, you meant the one crying that Universal Off Season is not used enough.  Or is it the one that has nothing to say but how much someone else cries?

[quote name="tigerguy" post="816097" timestamp="1278274327"] And I believe most of those schools are successful in basketball! Its hilarious that you are still whining about this! ;) ;) [/quote] Not much whining even though you would like to spin it that way.  This thread began with the suggestion that Universal Off Season will most likely be  detrimental to the basketball  program at HF.  Instead of the standard (and, I might add, very trite) whine comment, how about you providing some reasons that Universal Off Season is beneficial to a basketball program?

[quote name="tigerguy" post="816097" timestamp="1278274327"] And I believe most of those schools are successful in basketball! Its hilarious that you are still whining about this! ;) ;) [/quote] The only thing hilarious is the fact that you believe the majority of those schools are successful in basketball.  Of  course, I fully understand that a .500 season, to some, is very good.

[quote name="mfd814" post="815933" timestamp="1278147831"] I've watched Cleveland play in summer league. Very talented group across the board.  Not alot of defense, but could be its just summer league.  They have size, are quick, great outside shooting.  [/quote]    Yes, basically the same team that HJ had NO CHANCE against in last years playoffs.

[quote name="speechless" post="816060" timestamp="1278223962"] makin 'em lift on game day is not the issue makin' a kid lift on game day is illegal by uil rules it is requiring kids to be part of a football off season program during the season of another sport when they don't practice that same "off season" during football season ec hf newton all ur 1a schools that play football woodville kirbyville buna anahuac just to name some [/quote] Wwell, Xavierbreath, you got what you wanted.  So now what say you?

[quote name="xavierbreath" post="816019" timestamp="1278205591"] [quote author=stevenash link=topic=70692.msg815898#msg815898 date=1278126018] [quote author=xavierbreath link=topic=70692.msg815885#msg815885 date=1278123463] [quote author=no-look link=topic=70692.msg815803#msg815803 date=1278101759] Usually the Bigger,Stronger and faster dont get to the state tourney. Skilled teams usually make the cut......UOS is designed to aid the football program year round.... [/quote] Can you give me examples and tell me which school or schools are doing this? [/quote] And just what single individual do you believe, can give you an accurate answer?  And please don't infer that anyone on this board has anything behaviorally in common with the individual in your picture. Just look at those with decent football programs and underachieving basketball programs and you will, in most cases, have your answer. [/quote] Let's try again............which schools have "universal off-season" and which schools lift on game day? [IMG][Hidden Content]] [/quote]

[quote name="xavierbreath" post="815885" timestamp="1278123463"] [quote author=no-look link=topic=70692.msg815803#msg815803 date=1278101759] Usually the Bigger,Stronger and faster dont get to the state tourney. Skilled teams usually make the cut......UOS is designed to aid the football program year round.... [/quote] Can you give me examples and tell me which school or schools are doing this? [/quote] Just look at those with decent football programs and underachieving basketball programs and you will, in most cases, have your answer.

[quote name="xavierbreath" post="815716" timestamp="1278045881"] I know this may be late in asking........but just what exactly is "universal weight lifting"? I read that term being thrown around a lot but no one has really defined it. Usually, when the word universal is used, it usually means it includes all things.  So until I am informed (or maybe corrected), or can have this explained to me, then I would have to assume that "universal weight lifting" would include lifts that would help athletes in all sports (I have also seen the term "universal off season" and I would interpret that the same way). [/quote]  Essentially it is a football oriented program in which all athletes must particpate in.  Many basketballers contend that what is good for football players is not necessarily the most beneficial for basketball players.

[quote name="horndawg" post="815544" timestamp="1277963172"] [quote author=stevenash link=topic=70692.msg815482#msg815482 date=1277939647] [quote author=horndawg link=topic=70692.msg815472#msg815472 date=1277934650] [quote author=True Blue link=topic=70692.msg815467#msg815467 date=1277933808] No. I am not talking about Coach Price Personaly I am against Universal weight lifting ,run by the AD ( football coach) during Basketball or baseball season. We were at a school last year that was run that way. I know we are in Texas and Foorball is king But why should the other programs suffer inorder to help the FB team. [/quote] Because that is what he is being paid to do (win in football, not kill other programs).  Again, that is how it goes in a small 3A school, the AD is the head football coach. But I still do not see how working on agilities or plyometrics or even lifting weights 2-3 times a week is bad for any high school athlete any time of the year.  I will agree that I wasn't the biggest fan of lifting when I was playing, and I still don't necessarily agree with it, but hey if that's what the coach told us to do, we did it.  His team, his choice, he will live and or die by it, so just let it be. [/quote]  Nobody said it was a crime.  The name of this thread was Kiss Basketball Goodbye at HF and that may very well be valid (in relative terms, of course) [/quote] You realize HF hasn't been to the playoffs in basketball since '03 or '04 right?  It hasn't been the same for a while.  I think it's mainly because there are just not the same types of athletes that came through back in those days.  Also, the attitude of players was about 180 degrees of what you see these days.  Then it was about the team, now it's about "me".  I imagine that the drought has a little more to do with working out, etc.  I bet there's more to it than working out or not. [/quote] A competent and less restricted basketball coach could positively influence the problems you just identified.

[quote name="xavierbreath" post="815498" timestamp="1277947692"] [quote author=team first link=topic=70692.msg815349#msg815349 date=1277869591] So glad you finally asked the question, and yes I see them playing all the time. But, really doesnt matter now.Potential wont be reached. Kinda sad actually!!! [/quote] Please explain?  On one hand you say you "see them playing all the time", then on the other you say "really doesnt matter now.Potential wont be reached". How can this not help?  [/quote] I interpret as meaning that Universal Offseason is ultimately going to slow the progress that those kids are making.

[quote name="horndawg" post="815472" timestamp="1277934650"] [quote author=True Blue link=topic=70692.msg815467#msg815467 date=1277933808] No. I am not talking about Coach Price Personaly I am against Universal weight lifting ,run by the AD ( football coach) during Basketball or baseball season. We were at a school last year that was run that way. I know we are in Texas and Foorball is king But why should the other programs suffer inorder to help the FB team. [/quote] Because that is what he is being paid to do (win in football, not kill other programs).  Again, that is how it goes in a small 3A school, the AD is the head football coach. But I still do not see how working on agilities or plyometrics or even lifting weights 2-3 times a week is bad for any high school athlete any time of the year.  I will agree that I wasn't the biggest fan of lifting when I was playing, and I still don't necessarily agree with it, but hey if that's what the coach told us to do, we did it.  His team, his choice, he will live and or die by it, so just let it be. [/quote]  Nobody said it was a crime.  The name of this thread was Kiss Basketball Goodbye at HF and that may very well be valid (in relative terms, of course)

[quote name="xavierbreath" post="815327" timestamp="1277863858"] [quote author=AggiesAreWe link=topic=70692.msg815316#msg815316 date=1277861394] I just drove thru the middle of my town, Silsbee, after coming back from the hospital in Beaumont. I just saw about 15-20 kids walking in a group thru the middle of town with about 6 of them carrying or dribbling basketballs. By the looks of their sweaty shirts and shorts, it looks like these young men had been hooping somewhere today. ;) [/quote]   Has anyone seen a group of kids playing basketball in the Hamshire Fannett area?  Probably a correlation there. [/quote] I think they are spending their time lifting weights.

[quote name="PoppaBearstarr" post="815296" timestamp="1277853924"] Never the less HJ will be solid again, barring any injuries...Cant wait till the season starts and swag(Betrayed) will have to eat his words again. [/quote] Careful there, Poppa.  YOu might get your post erased for addressing swag/betrayed

[quote name="ECBucFan" post="815198" timestamp="1277825630"] [quote author=True Blue link=topic=70692.msg815116#msg815116 date=1277775109] Man you guys must not have to work . [/quote] I have just completed eleven 12 hr. shifts in a row, and went to SETXSports for a bit of diversion on my first day off. Now THIS stupidity...    [/quote] Hmmm- This stupidity seems to be something in which you are a willing participant.  People who live in glass houses should not throw stones?

[quote name="AggiesAreWe" post="815108" timestamp="1277771028"] [quote author=stevenash link=topic=70758.msg815107#msg815107 date=1277770797] [quote author=HoopInsider_Cooper link=topic=70758.msg815106#msg815106 date=1277770512] [font=Courier]Last week, the school board approved Michael Collins to become the boys head basketball coach. [/font] [/quote] Where was he before Newton hired him? [/quote] WIll Silsbee hire a Universal Offseason expert to replace him? Kind of complicated. He was at WOS last few years as their JV basketball coach but was just hired at Silsbee a month ago to be an assistant at Silsbee. He then took the Newton job leaving Silsbee short a coach for now. [/quote]

[quote name="HoopInsider_Cooper" post="815106" timestamp="1277770512"] [font=Courier]Last week, the school board approved Michael Collins to become the boys head basketball coach. [/font] [/quote] Where was he before Newton hired him?

[quote name="AggiesAreWe" post="815100" timestamp="1277767904"] [quote author=speechless link=topic=70692.msg815096#msg815096 date=1277766911] [quote]H.S practice especially jv and varsity shouldn't be a whole lot of skills practice it should be practicing plays and defenses skiLls come from the park and driveway[/quote] lol!  WOW!  "skills come from the park"  LMAO!  coaches spend 4 years trying to get kids to unlearn the crap they learn at the park...this post tells me a lot [/quote] WOW!!! Indeed! "Skills come from the park"?? Clueless, simply clueless.    Now wait a minute, you two.  Where else can a guy learn to palm the ball, and take two steps before his jump step? [/quote]