east texas bb

6thman, are you from Spurger?!

Football is not the biggest revenue maker, that is a myth.  Do you know what it cost to suit a kid out in football?  The cost is crazy. Then you have 15 coaches where have of them do not do anything drawing salaries from 30-40 thousand a year.  That is a simple myth people have come to believe.  Do I think HJ should drop there football program?  If it is hurting the basketball program in anyway and is an embarssment to the town or school then yes.  Otherwise, let them do it, most kids can only play football.  It takes a very special athlete to play basketball, in football they can find a place for you just about anywhere, that is why it is so popular.  It is not as hard a game to play.  Beside one or two positions, if you are fast and strong, you are good.  If you are big, you can play on the line, if you cant do anything else you can be on special teams.

[quote name="stevenash" post="940518" timestamp="1293856125"] [quote author=east texas bb link=topic=78065.msg940515#msg940515 date=1293855415] The claim was Silsbee was a better basketball team by 15-20 points.  Then people were saying that HJ would still find a way to win.  What else can you get from those two statements.  That is the writing that is on the wall, I am just reading it.  If HJ still wins and Silsbee's team is a 15-20 point better team then would their coaches not be 15-20 points better?  That is simple logic. [/quote] Bottom line:  None of us, individually or collectively, is smart enough to quantify the difference between two teams.  The "15-20 pt difference " talk is simply that, talk.  My guess would be that, most of the time,  Silsbee will have the edge in athleticism and depth, and HJ will have the same from a basketball intellect standpoint( I am speaking of players as opposed to coaches)  Teams that have done as well as both of these teams are bound to have competent coaching staffs to get as far as they do on a consistent basis.  There is no way to "prove" that Mack Brown is a better coach than Bob Stoops or vice versa. [/quote] Agree 100 percent.

What does that have to do with what we were talking about? And Logic is basically common sense so it is simple.   And I dont suggest any one be castigated or casturated or both!!  People were making staements, from those statements a conclusion was drawn.  You ask me why you should be thrown out for your opinion, I didnt say you should, I took two statements and from those statements came up with a conclusion.  Then I said that what else could you gather from those two statements.

The claim was Silsbee was a better basketball team by 15-20 points.  Then people were saying that HJ would still find a way to win.  What else can you get from those two statements.  That is the writing that is on the wall, I am just reading it.  If HJ still wins and Silsbee's team is a 15-20 point better team then would their coaches not be 15-20 points better?  That is simple logic.

A big sized boat paddle!!!!

No Look, do you know who won the Huntington vs. Henderson game and what the score was?  I cant find it anywhere. Thanks

[quote name="FanintheStands" post="940473" timestamp="1293848356"] [quote author=east texas bb link=topic=78065.msg940470#msg940470 date=1293847721] And what do you consider an athlete?  Someone that is quick and fast and that can jump high?  There are way more attributes of athletic ability than those describes above.  Putting a ball in a basket from 21 feet away with defense on you has to be hard, hitting a 85-90 mph fastball can be a very hard thing to do, making a pass between two people on the run for a layup and balance and hand eye coordination can be athletic charcteristics. I guess I am the devils advocate, but I am trying to get to the root of the reason why everyone thinks HJ can play with Silsbee if they are 15-20 points better. [/quote]It's pure and simple.  As it has been said before, when HJ jogs out on the court, they don't look like they can hang with Silsbee.  It's been like that for the last 4 (or so) years.  In the play-offs, its no different.  Navasota and Cleveland look like they can mop the floor with our players, but they end up driving home to sit the rest of the year off. I understand but that is a kid talking, I would hope that we would be a better judge than them.  All most kids see is if a team is athletic looking and this determines what they think.  Adults that understand basketball should be able to recognize whether a team is good or not, so in all I have gathered the Hj coaches are 15-20 point better coaches than Silsbee's coaches or the team from Dallas just dosent understand basketball.  Then why dont the coaches at HJ apply at Silsbee and they can go to state for sure every year.  I understand this is all talking but either HJ can beat Silsbee or Silsbee can beat HJ. Everyone is saying that Silsbee is a better team somewhere in the range of 15-20 points.  There was a funny incident at the East Chambers tournament three years ago that seems to illustrate my point.  At the beginning of the game, HJ was at the free throw line shooting two.  One of the players from a Dallas school (couldn't remember the name) asked one of the HJ players "aren't you guys ranked 3rd in state?".  The Hawks replied that yes they were.  Looking at the players for HJ and at the bench, the Dallas player asked, "Are you guys missing some players for today's game?"  The Hawk just replied and said, "Nope".  HJ ended up winning 109-29!!! [/quote] I understand but that is a kid talking, I would hope that we would be a better judge than them.  All most kids see is if a team is athletic looking and this determines what they think.  Adults that understand basketball should be able to recognize whether a team is good or not, so in all I have gathered the Hj coaches are 15-20 point better coaches than Silsbee's coaches or the team from Dallas just dosent understand basketball.  Then why dont the coaches at HJ apply at Silsbee and they can go to state for sure every year.  I understand this is all talking but either HJ can beat Silsbee or Silsbee can beat HJ. Everyone is saying that Silsbee is a better team somewhere in the range of 15-20 points. We will just see what the scores turn out to be.

And what do you consider an athlete?  Someone that is quick and fast and that can jump high?  There are way more attributes of athletic ability than those describes above.  Putting a ball in a basket from 21 feet away with defense on you has to be hard, hitting a 85-90 mph fastball can be a very hard thing to do, making a pass between two people on the run for a layup and balance and hand eye coordination can be athletic charcteristics. I guess I am the devils advocate, but I am trying to get to the root of the reason why everyone thinks HJ can play with Silsbee if they are 15-20 points better.

I am just stating what I have heard.  I know neither team.  First I thought Silsbee went to State last year.  And to say that Hj dosent have the athletes, I thought the most recent in 2007 they had the best player in SETexas in Ryan Donahoe.  Didnt he have 50 something at Regionals and 30 something at State?  And this year someone stated that Hj had the best PG in Gustafeson and Bosha was putting in close to 20 a game.  The Sutherland kid can play too and they have Prodhome.  I think both have good coaching staffs, could it be that the HJ school/town has the confidence factor over Silsbee?  I am just asking, I know some of the coaches on HJ's team but not well.

gametapes.com  has some.  I just made a order.  They have 2006 and up I believe.

I tried to get some tapes a while back and could not get any.  I googled several places and thought I had found one spot but you could not buy any because they were going out of sercice.

SO from what I have gathered, Silsbee without coaches on the sideline would beat HJ 15-20 points in a game.  But the coaching staff at HJ will make up for this 15-20 point margin? 

[quote name="Scalabrine" post="940429" timestamp="1293841977"] [quote author=east texas bb link=topic=78065.msg940394#msg940394 date=1293834431] What thoughts do you have that make the HJ staff better or more competent than the Sislbee staff?  Just curious.  Explain in detail where they are better at.   2 or 3 examples. [/quote]1. Getting the most out of less                 2. More Championships                 3. Do u need me to continue? [/quote] So you think that HJ has a clear advantage at the coaching standpoint of the game?  That because Silsbee's coaches arent as good is why they will play Hj a good game?

I think that both programs have good-great coaches, dont know any of them very personally.  I would love to see them in action teaching a youth kid the game.  That is always fun to me.  It seems more at the HS level it is alot about adjustments and you can still teach dont get me wrong, but the youth age child, no adjustments need to really be made in their games.  They need to be taught HOW TO PLAY. 

And dont get me wrong but Kris Klack was good but he was overrated.  I know he went to UT and played some.  He didnt do much after that, in fact I played against him(and he had a team from the Austin area with a guard from SWTexas  and a crew of D1 players) with my team from the Lufkin and surrounding area and they beat us at the buzzer on a 3 point shot in a Independant Tournament in Lufkin about 5 years back or so.  I had some good height and players (Marlone Jackson-played at Lufkin and Lamar for 4 years 6'9") and Jamie Kendrick (played at Troup and Baylor for 4 years 6'7") and we were surrounded by shooters.  Fun game to play in. 

What thoughts do you have that make the HJ staff better or more competent than the Sislbee staff?  Just curious.  Explain in detail where they are better at.  2 or 3 examples.

I may have not been in the loop but i have not heard anyone say HJ would not be good or they would be down, if that was the case then why would they get voted by the coaches as a top 10 team in the state? I may have not heard them say it.

Buna offense originated in the East Texas area with Cotton Robinson.  I have read somewhere though that he got this offense from a fairly famous coach.

What about Silsbee's coaching staff, who is their coach? 

There was a good article about Tommy Jones in a magazine recently.  Bonewitz nearly got the combined record, I believe he had 42 the first game and 36 the second.  Have heard alot of good stuff about Don Stanley.

Before my time but I bet it was a good game.  What was so great about the Bonewitz game was that he made so many plays that were almost unbelievable, like the pass he mad between 2 or 3 people as he was falling down backwards and then the pass he made between his legs that the one kid dunked.  SA East Central didnt have anyone over 6'5" that year.  Just a bunch of guards.  The HJ/Troup game at the Huntington Tournament in 92 I believe was a good one as well.  And the kid (I believe from SA Jay) that hit the 3/4 court shot to win the State Championship.  Another good one.  The Peaster kid hitting all 3 ft's to tie the game and send it OT with no time left on the clock in regulation. 

One thing you dont see much of but I always liked was when the band played at games.  It gave it a very creative atmosphere.  You dont see it happen very much.  Hudson usually does have a strong following. 

The best display of talent and a good game was Bonewitz at State.  They were double teaming him and could not stop him.  He had the quick rocker step and would get the defense off balance and go by them and pull up a jumper.  Great passer too. The Huntington/Jasper games with all the overtimes (I thought we won all of them, both years, I may be wrong) was a special series and the Woodville 5-3 game.  Both were exciting.

Im not trying to start anything, but it takes a basketball purist to enjoy and really understand the Buna games or the Huntington game.  I heard alot of things from different people after the Huntington game on both sides, but I found out that the people that KNEW the game enjoyed it and really relished it.  And it was not Huntington intentions for the game to be that low in score, the coaches felt the best opportunity to win was to pull Woodville out and make them guard them in a whole half court.  Woodville did not come out and guard them so they held the ball. If Woodville would have come out and guarding them they could have tried to score. I do the same thing with my Youth League team and my son, they sit back in a zone at 8 years old and want us to shoot 3 pointers.  Not many 2nd graders can shoot a 3 with correct form, so when we get a 6-8 point lead I tell my son to hold the ball and make them come guard him.  It opens up the whole game when they have to guard you in the entire halfcourt.  It is more of a strategy thing, no coach is going to hold the ball and pass up uncontested layups.  If the defense will come out and guard them then coaches will play the game and try to get the best scoring opportunities.