bullets13

Very cool accomplishment!

He denied it long enough to get into office, and now will face no repercussions.

Sure, it should be legal, but there are very few if, any, areas of law were there aren't "ifs and buts".

You're not getting me, you're getting the law.

But as the law often shows, different standards and outcomes occur in different situations. For example, if I break down your door and kill you, I'm charged with murder. If you break down MY door and I kill you, although the outcome is exactly the same, I'm charged with nothing. The same holds true for abortion vs. murdering a woman and her fetus. So while it's a legal issue, as you say, abortion falls on the legal side of the issue, while murdering a pregnant woman is illegal.

As i've stated earlier in this thread, I'm not a fan of abortion, but the threshold where I personally feel it should be illegal is when the baby could be viable outside of the womb. so around 18-20 weeks, even though the odds of survival outside of the womb at that point are almost nil. That gives a mother time to realize she's pregnant before the opportunity make a choice runs out, while preventing a baby which could possibly survive on it's own from being killed. An exception for anything later than that would be for health risks to the mother only.

great win!

This is the crux of the issue entirely. And it's been determined by the high courts that abortion is a moral issue rather than a legal one, although obviously some states are challenging that.

I literally said "That doesn't mean it's okay" in the very short post that you quoted when asking this question.

Would “breaking and entering” be the crime she would’ve/could’ve been charged with here?

I think it wasn’t a crime when it was legal. That doesn’t mean it was “ok.” The difference is that, as society progressed, your examples were made illegal, while abortion was made legal (during very conservative times, it’s worth mentioning)

Romans 13?

It's not a crime in my eyes because the law says it isn't. I do believe it's sin, but there's lot of sin that we all do that isn't criminal.

I totally get all this, and honestly don't have a big disagreement with any of it.

I know it may seem like I'm some big proponent of abortion. It's not something that I like, but it's legal, and making it illegal would cause tremendous problems that most conservatives want to gloss over or ignore. It's very easy for a bunch of men to sit around and talk about what a woman should have to do with her own body and what's in it. It's also easy when we don't ever have to worry about accidently getting pregnant, or getting raped and getting pregnant, or having birth control fail and getting pregnant, or getting pregnant and having it cause life-threatening medical issues. My wife has a friend who had a bunch of abortions. She'd just get knocked up every year or two and then go terminate it. I lost all respect for her because of it. That said, I have a friend who's 15-year-old got pregnant, and they chose to terminate it. I looked at it differently.

So when does life begin? Catholics believe it's a sin to use birth control. Is it murder if you take a pill to kill your eggs? If you wear a rubber and keep your boys from swimming? What about when you spend a little time with yourself? Just curious? Do you have a problem with the morning after pill?

Just because you disagree with them, doesn't make them paper thin. You have yet to tell he how we're going to afford these extra 800,000 mouths a year, and where we're going to house them. It's not a crime.

We both know what happens the majority of the time. Just making a point.

what if a young couple is being responsible and using birth control and it fails? it happens.

I like the whole "you messed up one night, be accountable for 18 years" argument. Especially when you drop it on a teenager. Abortion is a legal method for being accountable, versus having the child and expecting others to raise it or pay for it. Again, here's an example of the typical conservative view on abortion: it's an outrage for tax payers to pay for abortions, but it's also an outrage for tax payers to pay for children on welfare.

I have two adopted daughters, btw. Glad your family found loving homes. Mine did as well. There are plenty out there who do not. Trust me, I've been deeply involved in the foster care system for the last 3 years.

my statistics come from the over 800,000 abortions a year in the US. Do these kids suddenly become wanted when brought to term? As for kids in orphanages and foster care, is there a difference to you between a 3 year old child and an 8-week-old embryo that's the size of a bean? There is to me. But you do bring up a good point about orphanages and foster care... there already aren't enough qualified and adequate homes for children in need of foster care. Where are all of these new kids going to go?

Everyone is entitled to their own beliefs. It's been legal for a long time, well before our country moved from ultra conservative to ultra liberal. Personally, I don't have an issue with a woman choosing to end her pregnancy when the embryo is still the size of a lima bean, and not even close to viable outside of the womb. I have a major issue with partial birth abortions, and abortions where the embryo is developed enough to be viable. If you have an issue with that, that's perfectly fine, and I respect your reasoning behind that. All that being said, this thread is a perfect representation of how things go in the real world: conservatives are pro-life, and rabidly against abortion, but can offer no solutions as to what will be done with all of these unwanted children when they're born. Most of them don't want to pay for the fallout, and almost none of them are going to take a couple of these kids into their home.

Totally agree with all of this. I'd also like to get younger kids access to birth control. I feel a lot differently about a 15-year-old getting an abortion vs. a 25-year-old. Part of the issue is that the same contingent of conservative folks that are against abortions are also against birth control for teens because they feel it encourages sexual activity. That has changed some, but it's still definitely an issue.

I'd love to see it, but I doubt it. Everything aligned perfectly this week. This was the first tourney he'd really been competitive in all year. That said, he's definitely held up better than most older golfers, so I guess you never know. He was still posting some pretty impressive results as recently as 2018 and 2019.