oldschool2

I chose 60k and 53k respectively because the line between lower class and middle class in Texas is 53k.. according to a quick google search. I figured the average income should be slightly higher (on average) in suburban/urban areas. Which is why I chose 60k for the 6A/5A/4A marker. Was I wrong in thinking that? Use a different number if you want. Use 70k.. or 80k.. or 100k. Do you think the percentage of schools that have a successful football season will go up or down with the increase of that household income? That was rhetorical. Of the schools in a district/town with an average household income of 100k or more, 100% of them had a winning football season. Every. Single. One.

There are 96 schools that made the state quarterfinals. 65 of those 96 schools have at least $60k average household incomes. I also comprised a list of all of the 6A/5A/4A schools in the state, along with their respective household income, and their regular season record for the 2025 football season. There are 166 schools that have an average household income of $60k or greater. 23.7% of those schools (40) had a winning record (6-4 or better). There are 84 schools in the group with an average household income of less than $60k. 12% of those schools (10) had a winning record (6-4 or better). I also went ahead and did a list of 3A schools.. just for fun. Of the schools that had an average household income of $53k (low class in Tx) or more, 77.4% of them had a winning record (6-4 or better). Of the schools that had an average income of less than $53k, 33.2% of them had a winning record (6-4 or better). So.. even though there are other factors and exceptions. 6A/5A/4A schools that have an average household income of $60k or more have two times the statistical likelihood of having a winning season. And 3AD1 schools with average household incomes of $53k or more have a 77% chance of a winning record, compare to a 33% chance of those that make less than $53k. Again.. I know there are other details involved. But.. I'm a numbers guy. And these numbers tell a story.

Here are all of the state quarterfinalists from 2025.. and an estimated HH income for said school district according to Ai : ($53,147 is considered below middle class in Texas) Classification / Division School District / Area Est. Median HH Income 6A DI Allen Allen ISD ~$128,000 6A DI North Crowley Crowley ISD ~$83,000 6A DI Duncanville Duncanville ISD ~$63,000 6A DI Waxahachie Waxahachie ISD ~$92,000 6A DI Galena Park North Shore Galena Park ISD ~$58,000 6A DI Dickinson Dickinson ISD ~$87,000 6A DI Lake Travis Lake Travis ISD ~$148,000 6A DI San Antonio Johnson North East ISD ~$78,000 6A DII Southlake Carroll Carroll ISD ~$250,000+ 6A DII Denton Guyer Denton ISD ~$89,000 6A DII DeSoto DeSoto ISD ~$79,000 6A DII Willis Willis ISD ~$73,000 6A DII Sheldon C.E. King Sheldon ISD ~$66,000 6A DII Humble Summer Creek Humble ISD ~$84,000 6A DII Austin Vandegrift Leander ISD ~$116,000 6A DII Dripping Springs Dripping Springs ISD ~$128,000 5A DI Aledo Aledo ISD ~$126,000 5A DI Denton Ryan Denton ISD ~$89,000 5A DI Frisco Lone Star Frisco ISD ~$146,000 5A DI Dallas Highland Park Highland Park ISD ~$244,000+ 5A DI Port Arthur Memorial Port Arthur ISD ~$42,000 5A DI Barbers Hill Barbers Hill ISD ~$108,000 5A DI Smithson Valley Comal ISD ~$96,000 5A DI New Braunfels New Braunfels ISD ~$74,000 5A DII Melissa Melissa ISD ~$118,000 5A DII Argyle Argyle ISD ~$147,000 5A DII Dallas South Oak Cliff Dallas ISD ~$61,000 5A DII Port Neches-Groves PNG ISD ~$76,000 5A DII Richmond Randle Lamar CISD ~$96,000 5A DII Iowa Colony Alvin ISD ~$89,000 5A DII Boerne Boerne ISD ~$104,000 5A DII San Antonio Alamo Heights Alamo Heights ISD ~$132,000 4A DI Stephenville Stephenville ISD ~$63,000 4A DI Canyon West Plains Canyon ISD ~$79,000 4A DI Celina Celina ISD ~$127,000 4A DI Alvarado Alvarado ISD ~$79,000 4A DI Kilgore Kilgore ISD ~$63,000 4A DI Fort Bend Crawford Fort Bend ISD ~$109,000 4A DI La Vernia La Vernia ISD ~$95,000 4A DI Comal Davenport Comal ISD ~$96,000 4A DII Brock Brock ISD ~$101,000 4A DII Midland Greenwood Greenwood ISD ~$97,000 4A DII Carthage Carthage ISD ~$56,000 4A DII Athens Athens ISD ~$54,000 4A DII West Orange-Stark West Orange-Cove CISD ~$55,000 4A DII Waco La Vega La Vega ISD ~$58,000 4A DII Sinton Sinton ISD ~$67,000 4A DII Cuero Cuero ISD ~$59,000 3A DI Peaster Peaster ISD ~$92,000 3A DI Paradise Paradise ISD ~$88,000 3A DI Grandview Grandview ISD ~$86,000 3A DI Pottsboro Pottsboro ISD ~$87,000 3A DI Yoakum Yoakum ISD ~$57,000 3A DI Columbus Columbus ISD ~$71,000 3A DI Llano Llano ISD ~$59,000 3A DI Edna Edna ISD ~$58,000 3A DII Wall Wall ISD ~$92,000 3A DII Idalou Idalou ISD ~$71,000 3A DII Gunter Gunter ISD ~$118,000 3A DII Leonard Leonard ISD ~$78,000 3A DII Newton Newton ISD ~$46,000 3A DII Arp Arp ISD ~$58,000 3A DII East Bernard East Bernard ISD ~$82,000 3A DII Tidehaven Tidehaven ISD ~$63,000 2A DI West Texas West Texas ISD ~$67,000 2A DI Cisco Cisco ISD ~$53,000 2A DI Hamilton Hamilton ISD ~$57,000 2A DI Axtell Axtell ISD ~$61,000 2A DI Joaquin Joaquin ISD ~$50,000 2A DI San Augustine San Augustine ISD ~$43,000 2A DI Refugio Refugio ISD ~$63,000 2A DI Mason Mason ISD ~$61,000 2A DII Gruver Gruver ISD ~$71,000 2A DII Stratford Stratford ISD ~$83,000 2A DII Muenster Muenster ISD ~$89,000 2A DII Lindsay Lindsay ISD ~$95,000 2A DII Mount Enterprise Mount Enterprise ISD ~$49,000 2A DII Bremond Bremond ISD ~$48,000 2A DII Shiner Shiner ISD ~$68,000 2A DII Junction Junction ISD ~$50,000 1A D1 (6-man) Rankin Rankin ISD ~$81,000 1A D1 (6-man) Water Valley Water Valley ISD ~$64,000 1A D1 (6-man) Gordon Gordon ISD ~$67,000 1A D1 (6-man) Union Hill Union Hill ISD ~$60,000 1A D2 (6-man) Jayton Jayton-Girard ISD ~$56,000 1A D2 (6-man) Klondike Klondike ISD ~$59,000 1A D2 (6-man) Richland Springs Richland Springs ISD ~$52,000 1A D2 (6-man) Strawn Strawn ISD ~$55,000

What I'm saying is that I don't believe it's quite as, "for every one of this there's an opposite of that" as you're inferring. I don't believe for one second that the ratio is anywhere near even.

I'd have to see some statistics on that. I'm not believing that high household incomes doesn't correlate to money pumped into public school athletic programs. And also.. money that it takes to put student athletes through offseason leagues/camps/training. I'd never say that exceptions aren't out there.. but you won't convince me that the ratio of kids of affluent homes and kids of poor homes is anywhere near equal in total numbers when it comes to participation in year round playing/training. There's just no way.

Do you not believe that the money put into sports programs have an overall more positive impact than those same programs in schools that can't put similar funding? (facilities, equipment, training programs, coaching caliber, number of coaches, kids' time/ability to train, etc.). So that doesn't matter because of some exceptions that prove otherwise? If that's what you're saying, let's just agree to disagree. And in the case of Onalaska and Brock.. I don't think it matters how closely Onalaska develops the football program to how Brock did it. It will not yield the same results.. or even close to. Large in part to the list of things I just provided.

Median household income is generally used as a benchmark for measuring relative poverty. I already said that there are exceptions. You listed some of said exceptions. Now do median household income for Mart, Brock, Aledo, Allen, Austin LT and WL, Katy... I think the comparison made in this conversation was Brock and Onalaska. I'd bet a considerable amount of money that the median household incomes in this particular comparison is an indicator to how much money is in the community, how much money is paid in school taxes, how much money in pumped into the athletic programs. I agree, it's not always an accurate representation.

Definitely not solely on median income. But it's a factor.. and one that's pretty frequent among football powerhouses. There are very few consistently dominant high school football programs that don't have very much money in the community. But on the other side of the argument.... Moneyball is a very real thing.

The median household income in Brock, Texas, is approximately $95,876 to $104,443 per year, based on recent 2026 data. As of 2026, the median household income in Onalaska, Texas, is approximately $51,912. It's not going to be the same.

You listed some former Tarkington head coaches that were hired with losing records. How do you know they were the most successful coaches from the applicants at the time? How do you not see how what I posted has a lot to do with what you posted?

I think you're assuming that coaches with winning records just inundate all head coaching opportunities with unlimited interest. Big name coaches (or ones with winning records) don't normally apply for this type of job. Are they supposed to just scrap every resume until they get to a winning one? I'd think that most schools try to hire the best candidate of the ones that apply for the job.

There are probably plenty of good football coaches that are interested in the job, but a proven winning football coach isn't likely to be interested in a job like Tarkington. Because coaches that make a name for themselves go on to better jobs that are normally competitive. Or at least high paying. Schools like Tarkington that are neither historically competitive nor high paying will not attract known successful coaches. Sorry.. that's just how it works.

Depends on who you ask I guess.

Community support.

I've advocated to facilities upgrades for forever on this site (since I created an account). I used to catch a lot of ridicule from the old school mentality of, "it was good enough for my grandparents.. it's good enough now".. when in reality, if you're not providing top notch facilities, then your kids will go somewhere that has them. It's recruiting without recruiting. Plus, knowing that these tax rate increases are so small in the grand scheme of things.. it's beyond my level of comprehension why communities wouldn't want a school they're proud to show off. There's an enormous sense of pride associated with knowing that other schools are potentially jealous of what you have when they come to visit. Just pass the bond. Upgraded facilities will have a positive impact on your students' experiences for long after you've died.

Just out of curiosity.. what suggestions do you have to make the district appealing? Money?

I didn't say the coach hasn't done great with what he has. I has that barely breaking .500 THIS YEAR and missing the playoffs isn't great (regarding the basketball team). That's not a knock at the coach at all. When you don't have horses.. you don't have horses. But the season overall for the team overall was not great. Maybe as good as it could have possibly been.. or better. But that doesn't necessarily make it great.

No offense intended. What you mentioned is certainly above Tarkington's historic standard.. for most sports. But mediocre or a step above isn't something I'd ever use the word "Great" with. .. Which I know that you said the year wasn't great. No question that 20+ wins and a playoff appearance is better than many, but other than this recent 6 year stretch you're talking about.. how often were even winning records happening? 6 years is not a long time. They're dropping, right? That'll definitely help.. or should. I don't know..

Great? I mean.. they had a kid that scored a lot of points. But they finished a little better than 50% and missed the playoffs. That's a great year? Plus.. wasn't the scorer a senior? Might be back to the struggle bus next year.

I've truly never had a more aggravating conversation in all of sports than this.. because of your ridiculous mentality on the subject. Hey genius... not me or anyone else is saying that Surratt isn't the best high school football coach to have ever done it. Nor is anyone saying that ANY coach could win if they had the right athletes. Nor is anyone saying that athletes started showing up when he got there. What is actually wrong with you to think that's the argument? How are you not understanding that it takes a combination of coaching AND talent? Not every school has talent... not the talent it takes to win a title. NO TALENT AT ALL. You said, "What in his head coaching history would make you think he couldn't?" That's easy.. it's nothing to do with him, personally. It's the literal countless examples of other coaches that are elite according to your own definition... that never sniffed another championship after reaching your level of elite. Even if you only use high school football examples.. which is stupid.. but whatever. Do you honestly think that Tom Westerburg is the only example? He's being used as the example over and over again just because it was a recent situation. Reaching elite status while at Allen, and then never even getting close to Cowboy Stadium again after leaving. That alone should be all the proof you need that not every coach can win a state championship at any school. But.. I'll give you this. Your heels are dug in to your opinion on this.

Not anyone that doesn't agree with me. Anyone, in this specific case, that believes quality coaching can overcome anything. You seem to be the only one on the opposite side of this argument. True or False: Scott Surratt could take the Warren job right now and win a state championship within 7 years without any out of district transfers.

Hit a nerve? Let me break it down: Player A - High household income, 2 working parents, spending summers at strength/speed camps, not having to work summer jobs, having a reliable vehicle to make it to weight room/school, running with kids in similar situation, access to best facilities money can buy, personal trainer, personal tutor, etc. etc. etc.... Player B - The literal opposite of what Player A has access to. Give any head coach.. or football coach for that matter in the state.. a team full of Player A's. Give Scott Surratt a team full of Player B's. Scott Surratt is losing a vast majority of the times they play each other. Think not? Then you are either Ignorant on the the subject.. or naive.

I would wager that a higher percentage of coaches know what they're dealing with in that regard.. than the percentage of parents that know that their kid is in this situation. Please note: I'm not being judgmental nor am I saying that those kind of obstacles are impossible to overcome.. just stating that statistically it can make quite a difference. Anyone that argues it doesn't is just ignorant on the subject.. or naive.

That matters for sure.. but I think the way it matters is by way of households that are able to provide the tax revenue that contributes to those means of advertising (facilities, salaries, stipends, etc.). Here's a great article outlining the obvious differences in the financial situations of Austin High School and Austin Lake Travis High School: [Hidden Content] Two high schools not very far apart with similar(ish) enrollments. Austin High has roughly 2400 students.. which is much less than LT, but 2400 is plenty to field a decent football team in almost all cases. Vastly different average household incomes, though. You have kids from LT driving BMW's to planet fitness during the summers to meet an ex pro-athlete for a workout.. while Austin High kids might be sitting at home or working a summer job to help put food on the table. This applies at every classification across the state (country). There are always exceptions, but more times than not: High household income, 2 working parents, spending summers at strength/speed camps, not having to work summer jobs, having a reliable vehicle to make it to weight room/school, running with kids in similar situation, access to best facilities money can buy, personal trainer, personal tutor, etc. etc. etc.... A kid with access to the list I just gave will ALWAYS have a leg up on a kid that doesn't. Now multiply that by entire teams/programs. Start looking at the average household income of the schools that are habitually making deep runs. The income translates to living situation.. which translates to property taxes.. which is a huge contributor to how public schools pay for facilities and teachers/coaches/stipends.

One of too many examples to give. There's only one person here that believes it's only about coaching.. and that "elite" coaches can win a state championship no matter where they are.