oldschool2

I hate the idea of rating the skill of a coach solely on wins/losses. Keven Foster is without question the best coach in the area and arguably anywhere in the state for these reasons: Character and effort of his players, adaptability midgame, experience, poise, and yes.. success. What a great coach and better person. Big Sandy is very fortunate to have him. It sounds like this would've been an excellent game to be at.

What were you saying? It would appear as if HD ran out of fortunate events. Great season nonetheless.

Flatonia played HD in the second playoff game in two consecutive days. That's a fortunate event.. for HD. Was it the difference? I'm not saying that, but they literally had zero days to rest or prepare. Mumford played HD on one day's rest/preparation. They played a single digit playoff game on 2/25, then another on 2/27. That's a fortunate even.. for HD. Again, was it the difference? I'm not saying that. It definitely helps, though. HD overcame a 17 point 4th quarter deficit to win their second consecutive playoff game by 1 point. That's a fortunate event that statistically, normally doesn't happen. Calm down, Karen. I'm not saying they didn't earn the wins. Just that some things went right that normally don't and it needs to happen again. AP will be a test.

I have never said coaching doesn't play an important part. I'm saying that without kids, coaching isn't enough to matter. Case in point.. we have here one of the arguably best coaches in the area for sure. More than one state championship... how many region appearances? District titles? What happened? Same coach. Same tradition. Same culture. Same expectations. Is he a worse coach? I don't hardly think so. The only thing that changes from year to year is players. So it should come as no surprise when I run to the defense of a coach when they're bashed by a parent/fan. Blaming the coach is a poor excuse to the possibility of perhaps the players just aren't good. Are their bad coaches? Sure. But bad coaches can still be successful with good teams. Good coaches can NOT be successful with bad teams. I don't care how much winning experience one has.. you aren't winning a horse race with a donkey. Period.

Go get em, Coach DD.

Or down one more.

Just patiently waiting for folks to admit that players have more to do with wins/losses than coaching. Not taking anything away from the success of the coaches involved... still waiting nonetheless.

I always pull for the underdog.. but I'm not putting money on it. Good luck HD. Definitely need for another series of fortunate events.

There are many more factors than just the coach. I will say this.. Carthage had 8 football players sign on national signing day. That's also a factor. Community support is a factor. Facilities is a factor. Assistant coaching is a factor (both number of and ability).

Still waiting for your answer to me as well. Tom Westerberg won 4 state titles.. including 3 in a row. So. When will Westerberg win his next one? Or is he not an elite coach anymore?

Prayers sent. Rest In Peace.

Dominant at the line of scrimmage? Yeah I guess.. don't forget, also had the most prolific high school quarterback that the state of Texas has ever seen. Currently starting in the NFL.

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If a coach wins it all.. and then later in his/her career does anything at all that isn't agreed with by the fans, they'll forget. Even Tod Dodge left Carrol and was let go from his next job for going like 1-19 over two years. Trust me, there are plenty of coaches that may have been lucky enough to "get a sniff of the big dance" that may have later been ostracized for "underperforming". And I didn't say he couldn't win at another school.. I said he wouldn't win one at Travis High School. Just like the countless other schools that wouldn't win with their current circumstances with any coach. I'm not taking away from anyone.. just being realistic.

Tod Dodge is without question a legend in the coaching world. This year beating his son in the title game is up there with one of the better stories in the coaching world. I will also include that neither Southlake Carrol nor Austin Westlake were strangers to success before he took the helm. There are affluent areas of the state currently that just have a better environment for building that kind of success. Will it change? Eventually, as does with every time it occurs. Could Tod Dodge leave Austin Westlake right now for Travis High School and win a state title within the next 5 years? The schools are like 20 minutes apart.. Spoiler Alert: He couldn't. That's kind of what I'm talking about.. it takes more than just coaching. Yes, this individual is still coaching. You're avoiding the question that I asked.. someone else, btw. "Earning" an elite status doesn't change it. Are you assuming that once a coach reaches that status then it's ok if they never get close again? Seems contradictory to me.

There's a coach currently in this area that won a state championship multiple times at the highest level in the state. When can we expect a state title from him? Since it's all about coaching I mean...

Of all of the languages to be spoken, to chose facts.

I said there were examples. Make a list of the coaches that won it once and never got close again. Or even twice. You're obviously not understanding what I'm saying.

Coaching + talent + appropriate level of competition = success. All three are necessary. Surratt isn't winning ANY state championships at a vast majority of Texas high schools. Surratt isn't winning ANY state championships in 5A/6A with the same teams he's had in Carthage's classifications. Disclaimer: I know that's an unrealistic task, but an example of how the level of competition comes into affect. Every classification year teams are made into winners and losers based on those cutoffs. Every other year the same coach, with the same players can move down and dominate or move up and struggle. Literally every re-classification.

There's no question that examples exist. These two men have successfully created the greatest high school football dynasties to have existed. Culture helps to get wins over close games or games in which winning experience is necessary. No doubt. Don't, however, act for one second like they aren't loaded with talent. Also loaded with kids/parents that would love to have real estate within their school district. Are they the best coaches in the game? Quite possibly. Definitely on paper. Could they go elsewhere and have the same success? Multiple state championship success? That's where I'll gladly debate you. Where you provide examples of unmatched success, I could provide countless examples of coaches that won it.. maybe even more than once.. and then never got close again for the rest of their career. Can you explain that? The only thing that changes every year is players and schedules. Briles is another great example. Coaching definitely matters when talent is similar.

Coaching is nowhere near 80% of it. That said, good coaches can get more out of bad teams than bad coaches can. Still need talent. Coincidentally, bad/mediocre coaches can have success at a place with great players. You see it every year. If coaching was 80% of it, the same coaches would win it all or get close every year. Yes.. I know.. Carthage, Aledo, etc.. Not taking anything away from either coach, but I'd bet good money that a lot of coaches in the state could have similar success right now. The cultures have faithfully bought into doing whatever is necessary for both programs to be successful in football. WOS and Newton are great examples of relatively poor communities making deep runs. They also happen to have more natural athletic ability than just about everyone they play. That matters.

Nice Try, Danny. We aren't fooled.

Although very important, are we ready to admit that players > coaches?

Aledo.. Carthage probably.. Austin Westlake probably

Good grief.