CardinalBacker

The code you just quoted did. I don't think you understand what you're reading. There are two different distinct grounds for an arrest by a private person in GA. A private person may arrest an offender if the offense is committed in his presence or within his immediate knowledge. I believe that having witnessed Mr. Arbery enter and leave the dwelling gives the third person arrested coverage for his participation in the arrest as the offense was "in his presence," especially considering how this person was well aware of the ongoing nature of the intrusions and the property owner's attempts to stop those intrusions. The question is whether or not his notification to the father/son duo constitutes "immediate knowledge" on their part, but I think that it very well might. If the offense is a felony and the offender is escaping or attempting to escape, a private person may arrest him upon reasonable and probable grounds of suspicion. This second part doesn't apply to this scenario because no felony had been committed by Mr. Arbery. What the code is saying is that IF the offense was a felony and the offender is trying to get a away, then the private person doesn't need to have been present or had immediate knowledge... just reasonable and probable grounds of suspicion. The grounds for arrest by a private citizen are LOWER if the offense is a felony AND the suspect is attempting to escape. Thoughts by you or TVC?

They try, but it's hard to imitate a passing offense when you lack both qbs and receivers on your own Slot-T team. The scout team pulling guard just can't mimic a good wideout.

As you should.... The only problem that I, as an outsider, can see is that nobody is protesting the black on black killings.... which far outnumber the white on black killings. And to be even more ironic, there are many more whites killed by blacks than blacks killed by whites. But black men aren't safe in America? Give me a break. It's bizzaro-world. The statistics are out there. 2016 saw 220 some-odd blacks killed by whites, but 500+ whites killed by blacks.... which is even more impressive(?) based on the fact that there are so many fewer blacks living here, but they somehow manage to kill twice as many of us. (I'm white, btw). IF you're offended by a black person's death at the hand of a white person, but have yet to protest the black/black and white by black killings (both of which are more prevalent), you're just being non-sensical.

Your point about no action being taken until the video was made public is spot on. I feel as if the thing should have been presented to a grand jury initially, and I also doubt that any progress would have been made even still if the video hadn't gone public. It also seems to me that the initial 2 DAs were investigating this crime with the innocence of the father/son a foregone conclusion-and that's not the way it should have been handled. The point about violence is this... if you have a segment of the population that reacts more violently when confronted with adversity, at some point some of them will react violently with the wrong person (people) and get shot. You can see it in the postings here... to paraphrase, "well, if that cop can't protect himself with his fists, then he needs to go find another job." "Somebody forgets to add extra pickles on your Big Mac? Beat they _____." The other reason for pointing out violence that plagues the black community is to point out the hypocrisy. Why is Ahmaud Arbery's unfortunate end somehow the sign that white america/law enforcement are out here killing off black men, but the two dozen or so black men that were killed right here in Jefferson County last year not worth mentioning? Let's be honest.... if Mr. Arbery had been killed by black men it wouldn't have made the news in Atlanta, and you and I dang sure wouldn't be talking about it three or four months later. We're all getting pitted against each other and it's ridiculous. This morning Gayle King can't even SPEAK over the horror.... a black man died while being detained in MN and a white woman from NY made a *gasp* possibly false police report against a black man in Central Park. How can this be? [Hidden Content] On the other hand, you have: [Hidden Content] And ol' Gayle just can't summon the tears for the 8 young black men killed this weekend in Chicago alone. The whole narrative of "race problems in America" is bad joke told repeatedly to get a response out of the lowest thinkers in the land. From February: [Hidden Content] 25 shot, 11 of which were kids. But let's LOSE OUR MINDS over Tamir Rice. Bad police are the problem, right?

Those are just questions for the resident LEO, TVC. The questions are legitimate. The unfortunate event happened because of the actions of the three men who are currently being held without bail, according to the state and TVC. IF those men had been police officers and Mr. Arbery acted the exact same way, you'd have TVC arguing that the whole thing was Mr. Arbery's fault. If Mr. Arbery's actions are the exact same in both scenarios, and the only difference is that the people trying to detain him had badges, then we've all got a problem. 1. We agree on the racial outcry... I'm not seeing any evidence to say this was racially motivated. 2. I believe that they WERE within their rights to ask Arbery to stop. Arbery was within his rights to decline their request/order. TVC states that if somebody bops me in the nose, I have no right to use deadly force, then turns around and justifies an "unlawful order" by the father/son as justification for the use of deadly force by Mr. Arbery... Because face it.... if somebody is trying to take your weapon, they're going to use it on you if they can. We keep talking about the events in a straight line... "to detain and eventually kill Arbery" were the words that you used. You left out a key piece of the series of events-the one where Arbery initiated the struggle for the gun. 3. I don't know if Arbery was a POS or not... that doesn't matter. His prior encounters with LE only serve to illustrate a pattern of confrontational behavior when engaging law enforcement and bolster the argument that Mr. Arbery overreacted during this encounter.... he's obviously got a pattern of doing so. We can see it with our own eyes. Mr. Arbery wasn't killed for jogging, and he wasn't killed for repeatedly going into a dwelling that he had no right to be in. He was killed during a struggle over a gun that HE initiated. I don't think I've ever indicated that I felt Mr. Arbery "got what he deserved." I wish that all involved had made different choices that day. HOWEVER, if I drive up in my driveway and see a man fleeing my tool shed, so I pull out my pistola and holler for him to stop, then he tries to take my gun away from me and ends up dead, that I am responsible for his murder... we just don't see things the same way.

I disagree. We’re comparing the exact same scenario, except one group has badges and the other does not. One is accused of murder and the other is “just doing their job.” You just eloquently described what the people who protest these things have been complaining about. I guess what you’re saying is that the old man should have just had somebody carrying his commission and then this would have all been okay. They weren’t detaining him to investigate. They were trying to detain him until the police could arrive. But I don’t think they got to express much except “stop!” before Mr Arbery attacked. Since you don’t like that scenario, let’s pretend we’re talking about an armed security guard at a Walmart in GA. Loss Prevention radios him to stop the guy in the green jacket... he’s stolen something. The security guard confronts the shopper and a struggle ensues in which the shopper tries to disarm the guard and gets shot. Our guard didn’t see the actual theft-loss prevention thinks they did. No cover for a CA. How would you feel then? Would your opinion change if the guard was actually an off-duty police officer who wasn’t wearing his uniform to a side job?

Let’s break it down hypothetically. Same exact scenario, except instead of the two citizens in a truck, you have two armed police officers hopping out of a police cruiser. Oh, and the video was filmed by dash cam of a third cop. Do you still think that all three cops should be held without bail? No crime was committed by jogging or fleeing, remember?

Okay... they can’t bring about prior arrest records and such of the defendant(s) as they’d be prejudicial towards them. In this case where we’re talking about the victim, it’s all fair game (as I understand it). In rape cases, they don’t wait until the punishment phase to sling mud at the accuser. Has you or anybody you’ve worked with or trained with been sued for wrongful arrest after a person was found not guilty? Or by an arrestee who eventually had their charges dropped? If that was the case, you’d run out of enrollees at the academy. I disagree with your “bop on the nose” scenario. What if I defend myself with a bat? Is that reasonable? Or am I, when criminally assaulted, only allowed to match my assailant’s weapon of choice? He hits me, I can hit him back. But I’d better not use a weapon. However, if my assailant pulls a weapon of his own, now I am willing to engage him with a like weapon, but if I have a bigger stick, or match his knife with my gun, I’ll face murder charges. And I guarantee that if I bop a cop on the nose, I’d be lucky to get out with just a felony and not a couple of bullet wounds. You, as a police officer, have no more rights to defend yourself than do I. Lastly... what is the generally accepted definition of deadly force? Do you believe that brandishing a weapon is considered deadly force, or does that come it when the weapon is used? Because my interpretation of deadly force would be when the weapon was actually used. In this case that didn’t happen until the struggle over the weapon... and in instance deadly force would be completely usable beyond question. Deadly force wasn’t used to stop anybody from jogging or fleeing. There was a mortal struggle initiated by the deceased when deadly force was used. Unless my definition is too restrictive. I think of that cop from SC that shot a man in the back from about 50 feet away on camera. He’s rightfully in jail now. There was a brief struggle and the victim made a break for it. He might have gotten the best of the officer in the struggle. It was just a traffic stop, nothing criminal if my memory is correct. THAT was wrong all of the way around.

If the initial narrative was true (he was just out jogging) and these yayhoos tried to stop him on suspicions about past burglaries alone, they’d be guilty of murder in my book. ALL of the evidence that indicates that Mr Arbery was repeatedly going into a dwelling that wasn’t his, and was literally being filmed by a man that had just watched him enter and flee the dwelling. Both of the other suspects made 911 phone calls in the minutes leading up to the shooting. The father was on the line when the shooting occurred. Obviously all three of the men being held without bail at the moment believed that a crime had been committed based on their actions that day. I personally think that CA laws are stupid... Even if we sit back and say that based on all that we know now, Mr Arbery has not committed a crime prior to the attempted arrest, the men involved would still be justified in trying to stop Mr Arbery from fleeing. Whenever a suspect is arrested and eventually has his/her charges dropped, he doesn’t get to file suit for unlawful arrest. The officer believed that a crime was committed, and in this case all three believed. It’s a stretch, I know. At the end of the day, this case will be heard by a jury that will see videos of Mr Arbery in a house that he has no right to be in. They’ll hear of Mr Arbery’s previous theft-related arrest. I have no doubt that they will see the videos of prior confrontations with LEOs that we’ve seen lately. They’ll also watch the video of the final confrontation in which Mr Arbery initiated a life and death struggle over the shotgun. Mr Arbery has no claim of self defense in my opinion. If I get stopped by loss prevention leaving Walmart and I slug him/her, I can’t claim self defense, even if it turns out that I owned what they thought I was stealing. Mr Arbery wasn’t jogging... he was fleeing. It’s obvious.

You’re a weak person. Deflect, deflect, deflect.... And everybody wonders why nothing ever changes. You have no problems judging law enforcement. You have no problems judging my beliefs... but you’re too “woke” to address the elephant in the room.

You been there, huh? How many of those boat races, fishing tournaments, and local celebrations happen in the middle of the night? You get what I’m saying though. Sometimes, whether we like it or not, we are conspicuous by only our presence. You can debate whether that’s right or wrong all you want, but it is the way it is. Simple question for you that nobody else will answer. Do you feel like there’s a violence problem in the black community?

What did you think about “stop and frisk?”

I haven’t seen anything that would make me believe that Mr Arbery was targeted because of his race. I would have no trouble identifying this incident as racial if there was some evidence of such... past social media posts, memberships in supremacist groups, etc. When people complain that the victim is being dehumanized by exposing his past, I’d argue that those past behaviors on the part of the two shooters are also completely relevant in establishing their character and predispositions. BUT.... if you’ve been conditioned to believe that the majority of police in America are inherently racist, the the fact that the Father is former LEO is all of the evidence a prejudiced person would need to identify this incident as a work of racism. I live on a dead end road with a couple of other houses. I know when somebody is in here that “doesn’t belong.” I’m going to guess that Mr Arbery stuck out in that neighborhood, and I’d be curious how “diverse” the area actually is. I’d like to point out that a person’s skin color CAN indicate that a person is up to no good. If you see a white dude slow-rolling around on Simmons Drive in Orange in the middle of the night, you can bet he’s there for drugs or a whore. Both the father and son called 911 during that incident that day. If they’d set out to “hunt down and murder” Mr Arbery, I doubt they’d have contacted law first... the father was literally on the line with 911 when the shooting occurred. There are legitimate cases where people single out others for purely racial reasons. James Byrd, Jr comes to mind, and that kid that shot up the black church in SC. Hate crimes, plain and simple. Throw the book at them. Unfortunately most aren’t so cut and dried.

I thought he should have pardoned Hillary right after he was sworn in. Then Trey Gowdy might have actually gotten some work done instead of one Hillary investigation after the other. Plus, just saying “I’ve pardoned Hillary for all of her crimes” is especially funny if she really believes that she hasn’t committed any. I’ll go on ahead and predict that Trump will be lucky to die with any money left after continually defending himself... they’re going to pursue him until he’s dead, President or not.

Why can’t anybody just admit the obvious? “It’s dehumanizing.” You know what’s dehumanizing? When hundreds of black kids get killed over bandanas, tennis shoes, and weed deals and there own people can’t even admit that it’s a problem. When the internet is flooded with videos of assaults, beat downs, and fights, but everybody just wants to pretend it doesn’t exist. If Mr Arbery’s shooters had been black, the only difference would be that the cameraman would have yelled “Worldstar” and nobody would have cared. No protest, no celebrities, no news coverage. Let’s leave race out if it. Should one group of people who make up 13% of the population be committing 50% of the violent crimes in the US?

I watched a press conference given by the GBI yesterday on this case. The speaker said something like “sometimes people do things that are foolish and that we as a society frown upon... that does not make them illegal.” Or something to that effect. It was an interesting choice of words and I’d never heard that idea expressed like that before.

It's out there... I agree that it shows bad judgment is doesn't indicate that Arbery was a rabid dog. I thought that DA Barnhill was wrong in his letter of recusal for pointing out Arbery's family's troubles with the law. THAT has no relevance whatsoever and is smearing the victim at it worst. One interesting point was made, though. The DA indicated that the first shot could have been self-inflicted. If somebody is holding a gun with their finger on the trigger, and somebody else grabs the barrel and yanks, that gun is to fire. It doesn't change anything and had nothing to do with the next two shots, but I thought that was an interesting point. Very defense attorney-esque for a prosecutor, in my opinion. Just because Arbery was shot through the right palm, I don't think it could be determined whether or not the hands were up in a defensive position or grabbing a gun barrel. But for the prosecutor to go that route indicates that he was in all likeliehood doing his investigation in a manner that would end with a desired result of the Father/Son not being charged.

Those three are the kids who might attend college, period. Just kidding Put the pitchfork down, Earl.

That might be true, but it doesn’t get around the FACT that black people commit more violent crimes. You just can’t admit that. I guess there are thousand of White kids killing each other in gang wars, but the white kids just don’t get convicted is your argument? South side of Chicago... Little Haiti in Miami, NOLA, The Fifth Ward in Houston... South Central LA... Port Arthur, Texas. Please name me an area that is as violent and otherwise unsafe as those that is primarily inhabited by non-blacks. Your school shooter argument is not relevant. But unlike you, I immediately conceded that way more mass killings are committed by White kids. You have an inability to recognize fault in your own. But to answer your question.... if the police got a call that they suspected a mass shooter and they rushed to the scene and a kid was already there, wearing a trench coat and didn’t comply with police instructions and he ended up getting shot and he turned out to be unarmed... I would not assume he’d been killed for the color of his skin. And that’s the whole point missed my you, Kountzer, Lebron, etc....

I see what you’re saying. It seems like a stretch to me based on the limited information at hand. By your theory you could charge the guy that sold the gas that was used in the pickup to chase the man who was shot. It reminds me of the George Zimmerman case and makes me wonder if the 911 dispatcher told him to stand down. Gut feel from you... does it SEEM to you like the state is reaching at this point? That’s my impression, but I’m probably biased.

What’s the tie-in? I don’t think I want to watch that video. It sounds like that kid has some problems.

What you just said is completely untrue. Black people commit more violent crimes, therefore they are arrested and convicted more often. That’s not a racial disparity, that’s a fact. [Hidden Content] 50% of the violent crimes in America are committed by African Americans, but they only make up 13% of the total population. That is an indisputable fact. If you can’t admit that, you’re part of the problem. There are plenty of inequities to discuss... crack cocaine was punished more heavily than powder coke. That led to more blacks being incarcerated for longer periods... that’s been addressed now, though. Some would argue that tougher sentences for meth are adversely affecting white kids. I know a man personally that just got 17 years in Tyler County for a first felony meth possession. He had 7 grams on him. It’s ridiculous. But it’s not racial. I have no idea about your cousin’s situation, but my guess is that there is more to the story. There always is. Edit... And those figures are low... those are just the violent charges that resulted in convictions. When you realize that in places like New Orleans, Chicago, and Miami clear barely half of their murder cases (whose victims are typically black and whose killers were likely black as well, the percentage of violent crimes committed by black people would be even higher. [Hidden Content] Can you point me at another area where people of any race other than black are killed in such astonishing numbers, AND whose killers go unpunished? Because that’s what you’re mad about right? These racist cops going unpunished?

I hope so... if not, they’ll never get him convicted, and that’ll lead to more “No justice, no peace” garbage.

Breaking Update.... It’s been announced that the 911 caller who filmed the shooting has also been arrested and charged with felony murder. I really, REALLY hope that the authorities have some evidence that they’ve been holding back, because it’s a long way from calling 911/following/filming a shooting to being guilty of felony murder. I have a feeling that this prosecutor is just as bad as the first two, but in the opposite way.

Slavery has existed in practically every civilization since the dawn of time. Racism has existed since Biblical times... and it’s never been purely white dogging black. Yet we are to believe that Americans from the South are the only group who has done so. You’re upset at me over some stuff that may or may not have been done to your ancestors by some people who may or may not have been mine. Makes perfect sense to me, lol.