CardinalBacker

So why has Murray been such a disappointment as a collegiate athlete?

No, I’m asking why Newton athletes aren’t successful at the next level, if we (like many here) believe that their “superior athleticism” is what gives them success in high school, then why doesn’t it translate into success at the college level? There is a sound argument to be made that Newton’s coaching is on a higher level than Newton’s high school competitors. The young men from Newton move on to college and have coaching that is no longer head and and shoulders above the competition... hence the lack of success at the next level. I’m not saying this is the case, but it would explain why post-high school success has been so hard to find for Eagles. Some would claim that coaching has nothing to do with “D1 talent,” but that is naive at best. A young man without a good line coach or a good strength and conditioning program will never hit the next level, regardless of how quick his feet may naturally be. D1 talent is a combination of genetic gifts AND development of skills.... and that development is facilitated by good coaching. Also, “D1 Talent” is relative to the level of competition faced. Newton’s kids always look great playing against 3A schools I’ve never heard of, but I remain convinced that a lot of Newton’s “stars” wouldn’t look so talented if they ever played against Manvel and Lake Travis. That’s not a knock, but a realistic fact. A kid that plays for Newton can look fantastic, but would look totally unremarkable if instead he suited up for West Brook. I mean, a decent talent will look like a future nfl prospect when they face inferior competition. It’s unfortunate, but it might get expectations set a little too high some times

Once again, you’re being myopic about whether or not having a decent stable of good athletes is the only ingredient required for winning. In fact, I’ll use your fave Newton as my example. They tend to have more than their fair share of talent, but a lot of their success comes from coaching and culture. My proof? Nobody from Newton ever does anything at the next level without a Johnston-like coach whose scheme and program are head and shoulders above his contemporaries pushing them. That’s an indisputable fact. One could also argue that Newton didn’t start winning before they built public housing and sucked all of the talent out of Burkeville, but that’s a whole other story.

I like their chances. I annually pick against WOS because it always seems like they’re replacing so many pieces. Newton seems like they’re bringing back a lot of kids after last season’s success. I think they’ll romp through the 3A playoffs and probably should be considered as favorites to repeat.

I agree completely, and I think I went on to say that despite having "pretty rotten luck in the playoffs," we should definitely cashed in at some point... that's on us. The goal is to win the DC first, then move on to the SC... and we haven't gotten it done. Our district is typically pretty nasty on the statewide level. This year maybe not so much.

I think at 26 (or 27, I dunno) DCs, it’s pretty obvious we have a consistently good baseball program. It’s also fairly obvious that we’ve had some pretty rotten luck in the playoffs... coinflips that led to single game series in which we came up short against a team that we were favored over, questionable calls like last year, etc, etc... but we don’t have the hardware that counts. It’s safe to say that we should have already cashed in at some point.... that’s something we have to push past. We do have that football sc, though.... not bad for a baseball school to fall back on. I don’t know if there’s a more depressing, former championship-level football program in the state, though.

Oh, I agree and I’m not trying to criticize him or his choice. It just seems to me that we seem to have more than our share of athletes in BC with unrealized football potential.

There’s been several. Matt Menard did both, and Shugart did up until his senior season. There are a lot more of the promising athletes in BC playing select ball and little league than the traditional little league, little dribblers, youth football rotation. I’m not trying to call kids out, but this year we have a senior that’s widely recognized for his role as a catcher on the baseball team. I’ve seen him on the sideline in street clothes, and I promise that his arm was way better than anybody on the varsity team. I’m not beating that particular kid up for not playing, but in most places, it could almost be taken for granted that a tough kid that was an elite catcher would be a key asset somewhere on the gridiron as well. Kids like Romero and Hamm that have plenty of talent on the mound AND suit up for football, but despite having cannons as far as pitching goes, were never groomed to play qb. Or at least played qb in their formative years under coaches that utilized them as scramblers instead of developing them into passers. If Roschon goes down (heaven forbid) next year, there will be somebody else waiting for their shot. In BC they all draw straws to de who’s going to HAVE to go under center... no lie.

I completely agree... the problem is that there dozens of kids that want to be the ace on the BCHS baseball team. Qb on the football team? Not so much.

I’ve heard his name tossed around.

You do realize that BC went into the third round in 2016, right? Livingston has the tools to make the playoffs and win a game or two with the right coaching staff, I believe.

It’ll take a young (or at least unproven) assistant in my opinion. There’s exactly a 0% chance that we lure another proven successful HC like the one we just ran off. The thing that worries me the most is the scheme... we just havent had the personnel to run a spread-type offense here. Stump was a fine man, but you’re not going to move the ball in the shotgun without a decent qb.... the few years that we were successful were years that our defense was exceptional. I mean, unless he brings a qb with him, lol.

I’m not familiar with him... where’s he now? Is he an offensive or defensive guy?

Share with class, ol’ son.....

You undoubtedly didn't watch Highland Park take down Manvel in the SC game this December. I'm not saying the field is level. Some schools definitely get their share and then some when it comes to talent. But to outright claim that a school has no talented athletes just because they traditionally have a losing record is making a pretty big assumption. You also have to look at what is created by coaching. Are we going to pretend that WOS would be WOS without their strength and conditioning program? The fat kids who have decent o-line coaches tend to mature and control games.... I don't care how athletic a big boy is, without coaching he'll never amount to anything in regards to football success that translates into the next level. A big part of coaching isn't just the x's and o's. It's about motivating kids to do the work in the offseason and practice that will develop the kid into a force. It's not like you just take your genetic lottery card and are naturally assured championships if yours is a good one. There's a common misconception among supporters of schools that seem to have "more than their share" of talented kids.... the misconception is that they are succeeding based on their talent alone. Did all of the talented kids at Coldspring just so happen to move out of town at the same time Barbray did? I think not. "coaching + talent usually combine to beat coaching OR talent" is a more accurate analysis.

That's not true.... there are tons of great athletes on crappy teams. Some get recognition like Grayland Arnold, but most just move on into post-football life. Just having the best athletes doesn't equate to having the best record.

All jokes aside, it's not uncommon to see a trainer (who plays baseball) warming up the qb on the sidelines with a better arm than whoever is actually going to play the game. I've said it before, and I'll say it again. There are multiple kids in Port Neches who have every intention of growing up to be the quarterback of the PNG Indians... and doing everything that they can to make that dream come true. That's not the case in Bridge City. Shugart didn't pay his senior season in 2015 because of a "shoulder injury." I'll be honest... I wouldn't have played on a losing team, either, if I had a spot locked down to pitch for the Longhorns. The kids who play baseball are too involved playing select ball, etc, to ever hone their qb skills. It's not something you can pick up once you're in high school. In 2014 we were starting Trahan as a sophomore... He went down at LiCk'eM and they moved the middle linebacker Dearing to QB to finish the year. It was a long season running the spread without a true quarterback. We had big Dubois in 2015, then moved Trahan back to QB from linebacker in 2016 for his senior year. Little Dubois was under center for 2017. If you consider that both of the Dubois were transfers, you get a really good idea of how bad the qb situation really is. Baseball is king. Football started to compete with Baseball at BC and they ran off a good HC/AD. That's just how it goes over here.

You don't see many kids going to D1 schools from losing programs.... You can ask all day whether or not it's the lack of athletes or the lack of program success that ends up with a situation where nobody goes to the next level. I like to think it's a combination of both, and I'm confident that Livingston still has their fair share of quality athletes.... they just don't get to display it.

It’s always a full house? I’d hope so. They seat about 500.

I knew Greg had built it, but I was unaware that it had been sold to the school. It’s amazing how little support the Lions have there at home. There’s talent there... you have Corrigan as their neighbor to the North, Coldspring to their West. The community just doesn’t put any emphasis on supporting their programs, most specifically the football program.

If I’m not mistaken, the baseball complex in Livingston is privately owned.

It’s a really gray area... if the school was to punish the player based on an allegation that tuned out to be untrue or unproven, we’d be reading about the player’s family suing the school instead. I strongly suspect that the school WOULD have acted if the player was actually charged with a crime. That’s where Silsbee got into a jam a few years back... they were still having a “hands off” approach even after a grand jury felt there was adequate evidence to charge several players. Im not interested in rehashing the Silsbee incident, just using the event as an illustration.

Livingston does have a few good athletes come through from time to time.... I think Livingston’s drop to 4a D1 gives them a better shot at success over BC based purely on size. Neither town would be considered a “football” town.

Better opportunity.... Livingston or Bridge City?

It’s a backyard tire fire.