Reagan

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WOS, I like these conversations. Because like i said before: a one-sided conversation goes nowhere fast and is boring!

Ethridge was the nucleus of everything you have stated. PN-G played more talented teams. Again -- remember Kashmere. Permian was talented also. Yes, these were good players. Ethridge got these player to play above their potential. As you have stated, PN-G had talent in Bergeron and sat home. It would have been real interesting to see what Ethridge could have done having Bergeron for 3 years. Trust me, I know about the Lincoln situation. I think Ethridge, with Bergeron, could have taken care of Lincoln for one simple fact: Ethridge would have out-coached Joe Sr. Which he actually did later on. PN-G actually had more talent than just Bergeron. So, yes, I personally think Ethridge would have won 1, maybe 2 State Titles with Bergeron. Now, as for as the staff. You are correct, they were great. But that's part of being an elite coach. It was Ethridge who assembled that staff. During that time frame, there is no one who could have done with PN-G what Ethridge did, in my opinion. Now, don't get me wrong. Talent doesn't hurt. But -- if the coaching is not there the talent won't help. Talent didn't seem to help PN-G this year, did it? Would an Art Briles have made a difference with the QB PN-G had this past 2 years. I would say he would have made a strong push for the Title. But, unfortunately for the Injuns, you'll never know!

With Ethridge it was not just his run at PN-G. Remember, he had a State Title prior. Yes, there are circumstances that happen. But, as Cornel found out in his last State appearance, somebody gonna win and somebody's gonna lose. But he was there! Now, for mediocre coaches these "circumstances" tend to happen every year. These are the coaches that blame the lack talent for their failings. Actually, they personally won't: Their sympathizers will. No, Danaher doesn't make my list. Like i said, the bar is high and list is short. trust me, the list is impressive. But on the other hand, I wouldn't be disappointed if he coached my team. Like i said, he is good.

Because nothing is guaranteed. There could have been many factors involved. His actual accomplishments is the reason he's on my elite list. My elite list is not based on records. Because records can be deceiving. It's based on State Championships won. At least 2. I really don't know what Art Briles record is. I do know he won 4 State Championships. Now, this one will surprise you: Phil Danaher, at Calallen, has a killer record and is a good coach. But, no State appearances yet. So he's not on my short list of elite coaches.

Ethridge is on my elite coaching list because of 2 State Championships and another appearance in one. I know what his records were. He's still in the elite category.

And your point is? It actually proves my point. I'm sure there was talent that came through under these coaches also. Feldt got into the bigger classifications and couldn't hang with the big dogs. I would imagine that if he was an "elite" coach, he would have at least participated in the Big Dance at Permian. Did he? Anyway, I just used Buda, for no other reason, was because of the 42 years. If one can't get to the Big Dance in 42 years -- I would venture to say that it wasn't because of the talent. This is what dispels the theory teams can only win Championships with talent. You know, NFL-type talent. Another example to prove my point: Back in 1975, again, a team coached by Doug Ethridge, PN-G played a far superior team in the Houston Kashmere Rams. Kashmere was physically bigger and had more speed. Given Kashmere's talent -- there was no way that PN-G should have won that game. But, you know what, they did! They beat Kashmere because they were better coached!! Proving again that a well coached team will usually win over a more talented team.

It, again, boils down to were the bar is set. Mine may be a little higher than most. My list of "elite" coaches is small.

The below is your original statement: "Greg Hill, Ernest Anderson, Kevin Smith, Chris Cole, Earl Thomas and now Deionte Thompson in the NFL along with Deon Beasley and Mark Roberts in the CFL. (The players you stated are excellent players, no doubt.) Then I explained that it didn't matter to the WOS program if these people played or not! Tell me, Reagan, has any other program, since 1977, had as many players go on to play professional football?" (As for the any players that went to the NFL from the other Orange County schools, as you will see, it really doesn't matter when trying to win a State Championship.) I should have added that I wasn't sure. As you can tell by the response that I moved on pass that because it doesn't matter if there was any NFL players from these other schools, since it has to do with coaching. Then I went on to categorically dispel the theory you were trying to convey.

Here's a prime example of what I'm talking about: Here is a coach that was the HC for 42 years. Never participated in the Big Dance. Can one reasonably say that during this 42 years that "no talent" ever passed through that school? I would point at the coach as the reason they never went to the Big Dance. Now, this brings up an interesting point that is prevalent locally. I'm sure the coach at Buda is a fine guy and ran a respectable program. But for him to stay that long the bar from the community and school board had to be set at a lower level than I would set it. BUDA HAYS “REBELS” YEAR W-L-T PTS-OPP COACH 1968 4-5-1 120-154 Bob Shelton 1969 5-5-0 164-191 Bob Shelton 1970 1-9-0 63-306 Bob Shelton 1971 5-5-0 161-168 Bob Shelton 1972 5-5-0 179-147 Bob Shelton 1973 3-7-0 146-163 Bob Shelton 1974 7-3-0 228-139 Bob Shelton 1975 6-3-1 180-135 Bob Shelton 1976 C-- 10-2-0 320-133 Bob Shelton 1977 8-1-1 251-103 Bob Shelton 1978 7-3-0 208-136 Bob Shelton 1979 9-1-0 310- 60 Bob Shelton 1980 6-4-0 178-153 Bob Shelton 1981 4-6-0 120-152 Bob Shelton 1982 R 7-4-0 189-109 Bob Shelton 1983 5-5-0 126- 96 Bob Shelton 1984 1-9-0 136-266 Bob Shelton 1985 3-7-0 87-150 Bob Shelton 1986 5-5-0 226-160 Bob Shelton 1987 7-3-0 234-128 Bob Shelton 1988 R 7-4-0 206-186 Bob Shelton 1989 5-5-0 189-211 Bob Shelton 1990 8-2-0 230-124 Bob Shelton 1991 R 8-3-0 249-144 Bob Shelton 1992 R-- 10-3-0 356-195 Bob Shelton 1993 8-2-0 278-112 Bob Shelton 1994 C-- 12-2-0 415-232 Bob Shelton 1995 5-5-0 159-188 Bob Shelton 1996 C-- 13-1-0 495-216 Bob Shelton 1997 TH 7-5-0 313-186 Bob Shelton 1998 C-- 10-2-0 388-214 Bob Shelton 1999 R 8-5-0 277-192 Bob Shelton 2000 R 8-3-0 269-124 Bob Shelton 2001 6-4-0 319-231 Bob Shelton 2002 5-5-0 279-187 Bob Shelton 2003 R 9-3-0 307-188 Bob Shelton 2004 R 8-3-0 318-200 Bob Shelton 2005 R-- 10-2-0 532-297 Bob Shelton 2006 R-- 10-4-0 388-223 Bob Shelton 2007 6-4-0 306-277 Bob Shelton 2008 C 7-4-0 323-256 Bob Shelton 2009 R 4-7-0 277-292 Bob Shelton 2010 TH 6-5-0 308-297 Bob Shelton

Oh, I missed one from the area. Louie Kelcher. Played in the NFL and played for French. I believe it was 1970-3. During this time French did absolutely nothing because of coaching.

Exactly! As long as the kids are well coached.

Actually I did! What part don't you understand? You stated that the reason WOS wins is because they have sent a few players to the NFL. Then wanted to know how many the other Orange County schools have sent. I explained i feel WOS would have won anyway. Plus I said I didn't know how many the other schools sent. But I went on to explain, with examples, that what you were saying about future NFL players didn't matter. Again, I showed you examples that schools win State without future NFL players because of coaching. Then I went on to say the PN-G squad that led the State in rushing, not many "mediocre" players there, stayed home. It was because of coaching. BTW -- what's laughable is saying the coach has nothing to do with it!

Ignore at your own parole! LOL! You need to pay more attention to what's going on. WOS, as well as others, understands the topic!

The players you stated are excellent players, no doubt. But, without being able to prove it, I have no doubt that any games these aforementioned players played in, WOS would have won with or without these players due to the coaching at WOS. As for the any players that went to the NFL from the other Orange County schools, as you will see, it really doesn't matter when trying to win a State Championship. Now, I’m sure there’s a possibility that the PN-G QB will play in the NFL. He was one of the best, if not the best QB in the State. That didn’t help PN-G. Jamaal Charles played in the NFL and it didn’t help Port Arthur. Joe Washington and Bobby Leopold played in the NFL and it didn’t help Lincoln. Cotton Speyrer played in the NFL and that didn’t help TJ. Now, let’s look on the other side of the coin. Look at Liberty Hill this year, I guess it’s possible, but I doubt there’ll be any NFL players coming from that bunch. They won State because they were well coached. Now, a little earlier: PN-G, 1975, coached by Doug Ethridge, won the State Championship with no NFL players (none I can recall). The next year PN-G played in the State Championship game again with no NFL players. The previous state champion from PN-G was in 1955. So, it took 20 years for another one. Now, this went through the 60’s. What – no talent in the 60’s? Well, let’s see. They had Greg Davis, Wade Phillips, Tommy Landry and Mike Simpson -- who did play in the NFL. But nothing happened during the 60’s of any consequence. Let’s move into the 70’s. 1971, 72, and 73, PN-G had a RB by the name of Jeff “The Jet” Bergeron. In 1972 and 73, he was one of the best, if not the best, RB in the State of Texas. In 1972, PN-G led the State in rushing. Nothing – they stayed home. 3 years later, Doug Ethridge was making a strong push to the State Championship. 4 years later PN-G won the State Championship. Previous to this, Ethridge won a State Championship at Hobbs, NM. Don’t know for a fact, but I also doubt there were any players that made it to the NFL from that team. So, the point is: although it doesn’t hurt, having these quality players you talked about isn’t totally necessary to get to Big Dance. But good coaching sure is!

Curious for your opinion: Why do you say it is?

There is a reason for this. It happens in most is not every classification.

Trust me, yours is coming. I just wanted to see other responses first.

The first two sentences can actually be separated. But I want to focus on the second one: Curious on your thoughts about this. Throughout the years, and we'll go back to WOS's inception, are you saying that WOS is the only school in Orange County that ever gets talent? And that the other schools never gets talent? If this is your thought -- why do you think this is?

Well if you count before the 1977 rule. Vidor and BC have already been to the state championship game. But yes I think LCM had one chance to make it all the way and they ran into Lamarque. I believe that Bridge City did make it to the state Semi in the early 2000 if my memory is correct. Coaching is a problem, but when you have superintendents that makes your defensive coordinator go sit in the box because he's yelling to much is also a problem. I don't think superintendents should be telling a head coach if you make it to one play off game and everything will be okay. Also to get a good coach you have to let the coaches coach from the fan base I agree with that. The kids have to be 100% in with working out and watch game film. Most kids in orange county are probably inside playing video games. Ok, you have piqued my interest. What's in the bold, tell us more about this. The other parts I tend to agree.

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Good info. But -- has nothing to do with my post!

The article is about Orange County schools only. Who said anything thing about just our coverage area?? WOS hasn't reached 100 loses since 1977. The other schools have well over 200 loses since then.

There's one glaring fact: The coaching consistency of picking the right coach. WOS has yet to lose 100 games during this time frame. Every other school has doubled that. Again, are people going to try and convince us that since 1977 none of these other schools have had any talent that could bring a State Title or be in one? That WOS is the only one?! I guess if one strains real hard one could come to that conclusion! [Hidden Content]