Englebert

What are these flaws in the system? What do you propose to fix these flaws?

One thing that scares me about declaring an emergency is that the Liberals, when resuming power, could easily reciprocate by declaring Man Made Global Warming as a national emergency...paving the way to enact many, many loony and cost prohibitive measures...spending wasting billions (possibly trillions) of our tax dollars, suffocating industries/businesses, and inflicting lasting harm to our overall economy. The loons are already screaming for such measures. Giving them an easy path to enact such lunacy is scary.

I agree with all of your points. These are all targeted towards future immigration (except for DACA). What do you propose about the illegals already here (non-DACAs)? I suggest we implement and strictly enforce E-Verify, along with, and this is key, prosecuting anyone that hires illegal workers. Coupled with this, I would want to prosecute any person selling/renting/providing housing to illegals. E-Verify can be used for this. Also, I would like to see prohibition of any person (including children of any age) from attending public and/or private education institutions. I would also like to see a requirement of medical facilities to report any illegal seeking treatment. You can treat them, but you must report them. If a person here illegally cannot work, get housing, get medical treatment, or provide a place for his children to get an education, (s)he will self-deport...and will not return. No need for a wall. No need to spend money chasing them. Prosecute the enablers. Because of the our past history of being lax on enforcing immigration laws, this will be tough for the illegals, some who have been here for years. We have provided an incentive for them to come illegally, and it seems harsh to suddenly force them out. My stance is that they knew they were illegal when they came, therefore really have no argument for staying. I feel bad for them, but would rather enforce our laws than bending or breaking them. Putting in an exception for these only increases incentive for future illegal immigration. What are your thoughts on how to handle the ones already here?

What laws do you think our leaders should enact to fix the immigration problem? Please include your suggestions for remedies for past, present, and future immigration. Should illegals be deported? Should DACA recipients be allowed to stay? Should current levels of legal immigration be increased or decreased? Should the U.S. allow only people deemed to be an asset to our future be allowed to immigrate? Should we establish a quota system for immigration from different countries? Should enhanced background checks be required and strictly enforced for immigration? Should the spouses, children, parents, grandparents of allowed immigrants also be allowed to immigrate to the U.S. (How extended of a family should we allow)? Should employers of illegals be prosecuted? If so, what should the penalties be? Should illegals be allowed to obtain a driver's licence? Should illegals be allowed to own or rent property/housing? Should illegals be allowed to attend schools? What should the penalty be for persons who fail to report or harbor illegals (if any)? Should any child born on American soil be given American citizenship, even if both parents are here illegally? What if one parent is here illegally? Should the immigration laws already on the books be enforced or ignored? Should judges who refuse to follow the law be removed from their bench? Should politicians/law enforcement be required to cooperate with Federal Immigration authorities? Should illegals be allowed to buy and carry firearms? Should illegals be allowed to vote? If so, local, state, and/or federal elections? Should the wall be built? Please feel free to add any other points for discussion. Let's see what we agree/disagree on. Let's try to keep this one civil.

I'm going to put this in a separate post...to separate it from the moronic posts above. If you really want an civil debate, we can have one regarding your statement "Hopefully our leaders will fix immigration". What laws do you think our leaders should enact to fix the immigration problem? Please include your suggestions for remedies for past, present, and future immigration. Should illegals be deported? Should DACA recipients be allowed to stay? Should current levels of legal immigration be increased or decreased? Should the U.S. allow only people deemed to be an asset to our future be allowed to immigrate? Should we establish a quota system for immigration from different countries? Should enhanced background checks be required and strictly enforced for immigration? Should the spouses, children, parents, grandparents allowed immigrants also be allowed to immigrate to the U.S. (How extended of a family should we allow)? Should employers of illegals be prosecuted? Should illegals be allowed to obtain a driver's licence? Should illegals be allowed to own or rent property/housing? Should illegals be allowed to attend schools? What should the penalty be for persons who fail to report or harbor illegals? Should any child born on American soil be given American citizenship, even if both parents are here illegally? Should the immigration laws already on the books be enforced or ignored? Should judges who refuse to follow the law be removed from their bench? Should politicians/law enforcement be required to cooperate with Federal Immigration authorities? Should illegals be allowed to buy and carry firearms? Should illegals be allowed to vote? If so, local, state, and/or federal elections? Let's see what we agree/disagree on. This debate is open for anyone else. Let's try to keep this one civil. Skip this. I will start a new thread for this discussion.

How in the world can you come to the conclusion that I "fail to understand". The moronic quotes just keep coming. What hypothesis have I concocted? You can't refute my statements can you?! Many of the various economic groups and government groups have been known for making inaccurate assessments to push an agenda, but you will follow like the good little sheeple you are. How about you use those studies to refute any of the statements I made. And I find it absolutely hilarious that you claim to be able to generalize about a group of people because you have had interactions with less than .001 percent of them. I thought you Liberals hate stereotypes. Oh that's right, you hate them when only spoken by a non-Liberal. And everyone can appreciate what immigrants bring to our country. There is a huge difference between immigrants and illegal immigrants, one that you seem all to willing to overlook to the detriment of the this country.

Why wouldn't immigrants report crimes against them? They know full well nothing will happen to them. Even the illegals know this. Are you trying to push the fear-mongering notion that illegals are living in the shadows trembling with fear? Are these the same ones that march in immigration rallies waving Mexican flags?

How in the world did you "infer" Trump being a racist by citing this? Are you kin to BearEssentials? Did you forget this? Or did you just ignore it? Did your Liberal gods tell you to ignore it? Which side is good at fueling there base by stoking race? We know, but it's obvious you don't. [Hidden Content] From the Article: "The issue is ripe for dispute because, as we said, there are not readily available statistics on this issue. The Justice Department keeps data on federal crimes committed by immigrants in the country illegally — and an analysis from the U.S. Sentencing Commission found that undocumented immigrants made up a disproportionate share of federal inmates sentenced for nonimmigration crimes in 2016. But the vast majority of crimes (more than 90 percent) are dealt with at the state and local level, where those kinds of data are harder to come by because those jurisdictions rarely record whether prisoners are immigrants in the country illegally." Which side is good at fueling their base by stoking race relations? We know, but it's obvious you don't. Do you also cling to the notion that all non-Liberals think all illegals are criminals? Which media outlets are constantly stoking that notion?

Wow, such rage from someone who doesn't even understand basic concepts. You don't seem to be having much fun, but you are providing plenty of entertainment for this board. You seemed to be incensed that we haven't dissected your article yet, but you keep inserting pathetic claims that also need to be addressed. I can tackle all of them at once, but it is evident your little brain cannot, thus having to focus on one issue at a time. Since you fell for the media propaganda that illegals commit crime at a lower rate than Americans, I proposed that you probably also fell for the "lie" that illegals contribute to the economy. I didn't switch topics, as you moronically contend, I added to it. Just because you are a moron and do not have the ability to comprehend such simplistic ideas simultaneously, I can see where a moron could make a mistake of failure to comprehend their relativeness. I guess the concept of "since you are gullible on one topic then you are probably gullible on a similar topic" is just too complicated for a moron. You just read what you want to read (i.e. interpret said words and inject unsaid words) to fit a pre-conceived notion...rendering you a moron. Is this not correct you little moron? I never tried to "make stick" a statement that all illegals are criminals. That is just another example of your pathetic imagination (see above). I never even said or implied that most illegals are criminals. Your contention was that illegals commit crime at a lower rate than legal Americans....which is propaganda fed to you by your Liberal overlords. You trying to say I/we think all illegals are criminals is just moronic, making you a moron. Is this not correct you little moron? Man, this is fun. All I have to do to make you look moronic is highlight your own words. Now let's focus on how illegals supposedly add to the economy: Illegals are performing low skill/low paying (at or below minimum wage) jobs that Americans will not do. We know this because you Liberals tell us on a daily basis. Is this not correct you little moron? Illegals are not receiving government assistance. We know this because you Liberals tell us on a daily basis. Is this not correct you little moron? Illegals have families. We know this because you Liberals claim that ICE is ripping babies from mothers arms on their raids. Is this not correct you little moron? People earning a low paying/minimum wage job cannot support their families (or even themselves) without government assistance, thus the push for a $15/hr minimum wage. We know this from the protests emanating from Seattle and various other places, in which the Liberal media agreed and concluded the current minimum wage is not substantial as a living wage. Is this not correct you little moron? So answer this question you little moron. How can an illegal support a family performing jobs Americans will not do, making at or below minimum wage, without government assistance? Your side has already fought this battle and concluded that this is impossible to accomplish for anyone without government assistance. But you moronically claim that somehow these illegals are accomplishing this feat and contributing to the economy. Are you really this moronic? Since it has been established you cannot do basic math, have you looked at the contributions of illegals/mass immigration to other countries. Can you name a country that has been invaded recently that has a skyrocketing economy, or an economy that has even increased since the invasion? Please name one? How about Tijuana? Is their economy skyrocketing since the illegals moved in? According to you and your blind ideology, one should conclude "yes". Has it? So really the main point that has come out of this exchange is that it has been established beyond a shadow of a doubt that you are undeniably a moron. When are you going to admit it? Are you having as much fun as me? I bet not.

Your inferences are faulty...as usual. Illegal immigration is bad for the economy and bad for the country. Your inference that I hate immigrants personally is just laughable and based on some fantasized pre-conceived notions ingrained into your sheeple brain. You don't ask me for evidence of my accusations because the evidence is provided by you...and is absolute and clear to practically everyone reading this. Your claims on the other hand are based, again, on some fantasized pre-conceived notions ingrained into your sheeple brain. If you want me to answer, or have an intelligent conversation with you, why do you continuously try to pop off with asinine accusations that have no basis in reality. I will respond to your personal accusations by asking you to give evidence...in which you cannot...which makes you look childish and should be embarrassing for most people. For example, in your last post you actually contend I'm projecting my fears and anxieties on you. Are you freaking kidding me? It's hard to engage in a conversation when you continuously make these ridiculous claims. Children are laughing at you when you post this stuff. It's obvious that you are attempting to convey intelligence, for which you are ill-equipped to handle. I call you dumb, or stupid, or unintelligent because you have shown that to be true. By accusing me of "hating immigrants" or "projecting fears" or many of the other ridiculous accusations you tried to pull, you provide ample evidence of you stupidity. I just state the obvious. Now, would you like to converse about the topic you posted or would you like to throw around some baseless accusations...ones you cannot possible provide evidence for...and would make most people embarrassed?

Again, you read what you want to read then make asinine statements based on that faulty reading. What makes you think I'm upset? Where did you draw that from? (oops, I forgot you live in Liberal land. Now I understand.) Which words do you think I don't understand? And how am I deflecting? I bet you don't even know the meaning of that word since you used it wrong. What topic do I not know what I'm talking about. Please specify because I would love to admit I'm wrong if you show the evidence...and unlike you, I would not be ashamed to admit it. You probably should walk away. Not because it is the adult thing to do, but because you keep embarrassing yourself. Running away would be considered the "logical" thing to do.

Again, it's like debating with a toddler. Why do you claim I hate illegals? Show one shred of evidence you have seen me post that suggests that. In true Liberal fashion, you read what you want to read then claim stereotypical decrees that have no existence in reality. So again, show some evidence for where you came to your conclusion. I guess you will also claim that Trump thinks all illegals are criminals, and that he hates them also. You live in a hateful, spiteful world that I cannot fathom. Maybe one day you will discover a cure for TDS that brought you there. Now get to work on that evidence.

All the education in the world apparently cannot cure TDS. Now answer this question you always run from...How are you not embarrassed with yourself? Seriously, I've had more intelligent "debates" with toddlers. Your inadequate English skills and atrocious grammar scream the opposite, but I would rather focus on your inadequate reasoning skills and reliance on junk data. That is the prime making of a sheeple, which you have clearly demonstrated over and over. Instead on taking a step back and analyzing your deficiencies, you choose to continually display your faulty and sophomoric abilities for all the world to see. Are you really that delusional? (I guess that would explain your lack of shame.)

Such childish quips from a simplistic state of imagination. Is pretty clear how you can be led so easily. As a comforting jester (as you so eloquently pointed out), Trump has stated that he loves dumb people...so that should give you at least some solace.

I'm assuming your lack of literary skills are also due to TDS. Run, run, run. You've shown your true colors, and surprisingly you continue with oblivious abandon.

Run run run. You stated opinions influenced by TDS. The laughter is deafening. You sound a little upset. Are you not having any fun? I guess embarrassing oneself is not very pleasant, so your demeanor is understandable. (Translation: bless your little heart.)

And the illegals and their family members go to hospitals and attend our schools. I guess your "studies" failed to take that into account. Typical. The Seattle protesters have already "proven" that a person cannot live off of minimum wage without government assistance. You do remember the fast food workers demanding $15/hr, and the arguments even that raise would not allow them to support themselves and their families without substantial government assistance. But you somehow believe the illegals can perform jobs that Americans won't do at minimum or below minimum wage, without government assistance, and support themselves and their families...the whole time contributing to the overall health of our economy. That illustrates the very definition of a sheeple. And to further show your lack of comprehension skills: [Hidden Content] From the Article: "The issue is ripe for dispute because, as we said, there are not readily available statistics on this issue. The Justice Department keeps data on federal crimes committed by immigrants in the country illegally — and an analysis from the U.S. Sentencing Commission found that undocumented immigrants made up a disproportionate share of federal inmates sentenced for nonimmigration crimes in 2016. But the vast majority of crimes (more than 90 percent) are dealt with at the state and local level, where those kinds of data are harder to come by because those jurisdictions rarely record whether prisoners are immigrants in the country illegally." We can pick apart your link if you so choose, but history has shown you will get run. Do you want to continue?

Wow, you are not very bright are you. (That's rhetorical.) List some of the lies of Trump, and we can analyze if that "lie" is just matter of interpretation or a unmitigated and knowing attempt to deceive. To illustrate your inability to participate in this endeavor, you have provided ample proof with your "Trump loves dumb people" comment. Do you actually thing Trump was calling me dumb through this statement? Are you really so dumb as to reach that pathetic conclusion? Do you practice this same flawed logic when concluding any Trump statement is a "lie". We know you do. So let's make you look even possibly dumber than you do now, and start analyzing what you think are life-altering Trump "lies". Pick one. If you don't, does this make you the biggest liar?

That "lie" has been debunked. Illegal immigrants commit crimes at higher rates that Americans. Why do you think many officials who want to harbor illegals have been diligently trying to oppress the documentation of illegal crime rates? Wouldn't they want these rates to be publicized if they were truly at a lower rate? You've been brainwashed again. You probably also fell for the "lie" that illegals contribute overall to the economy...which has also be debunked. They cost more than they contribute. As Bluedove would say "you need to expand your sources of news".

What question do you think I won't answer? Please ask it. If you are wanting to know if I consider Trump a liar...if that is the question that has your panties in a wad...then I can answer emphatically that it depends on degree and scale on how to assign that label. Mainly, the criteria needs to be defined. Your posting of that pathetic link to an article attempting to list Trump's "lies" illustrates your extreme lack of knowledge and unworthiness to be included in any conversation. Is Trump a liar? Is Obama a liar? Are you a liar? Define the term! Your are just too comical. It's definitely a good thing for you to drop out of a conversation in which you've already shown extraordinary stupidity, but it's not good for this board...we lose so much entertainment value when you run like a frightened schoolgirl.

TDS coupled with immaturity. Now that is entertainment. You are so laughable when you are set off. You are the one that claimed everyone on this board will believe anything Trumps says. I chimed in with the post asking to name one person. You claimed I am one (now that is funny), then go on a rant about me not answering questions, denying facts, changing subjects, etc. That's not TDS, that's just mental instability possibly due to severe TDS. Again, how are you not embarrassed? I can only assume your lack of self dignity is due to TDS. If you do not have TDS, what do you attribute as the cause of your lack of dignity?

Again, TDS at it's finest. Seriously, how are you not embarrassed? And what is a chump? Please define the term so everyone can be quite clear on your grasp of literary skills. (LOL, that was rhetorical, as we already know where you rank.)

So have the voters.

Wow, a missed layup. I guess it's hard to shoot when you are ate up with TDS.

He has stated that the U.S. would initially fund the building of the wall, then make back that money (and more) through other sources, like re-negotiating NAFTA (which he did), and other sources (which he has been vague on). How much money has been or will be saved on re-negotiating NAFTA is a on-going debate, and one in which I have no clue. I haven't heard anything about money being generated from the other unnamed sources. Frankly, I really don't care about the wall. I hope it gets built, but I wish the U.S. would use other methods of deterrents, such as prosecuting anyone that hires an illegal. I would also like for it to be illegal for anyone to rent or provide housing to an illegal. I would like to see it be illegal for any school district/college/higher learning center (kindergarten through college graduate school) to admit anyone here illegal. I would also like to see a law that requires any hospital or medical facility to report any illegals. If these measures were adopted and enforced, we would not have a problem with illegals being here, and at a significantly cheaper cost.