Englebert

I don't think anyone is denying or needs to admit that everybody has different experiences. That's almost like soliciting an admittance that 1+1=2. I can admit that I have personally been negatively impacted by Affirmative Action. Do you think that I need an affirmation from all minorities in order to discuss the topic with an open mind? Does my experiences give credence to any unrealistic or false narratives or different viewpoints I might harbor? Does my experiences excuse any unfounded hypothesis I might argue? And if you say yes to any of these things, are you not setting a lower standard for me than for everyone else?

I interpreted your remarks as that I should admit that Blacks have different experiences when dealing with cops, and these differences are stemmed from racism. If that assumption is wrong, please explain what you want me to admit to.

Who made the argument that there were no legitimate cases of injustices against Blacks? I must have missed that one. And who made the claim that statistics don't show any significant differences in ticketing and arrest rates for Blacks. There is a huge difference between the races. The point I made was that if stops/tickets/arrests are motivated by racism, then the race of the cop should show significant differences. That is, if a White cop is racist, he would logically stop/ticket/arrest Blacks at a higher rate than a Black cop who is not racially motivated to stop/ticket/arrest Blacks. Let's see if I can give a clearer example. If a White cop has a total of 100 stops in a period, and of these stops 75 of them where to Blacks and 25 of them where to Whites, then a point can be raised that maybe the cop is using skin color as a factor to stop people. If you replace that White cop with a Black cop (all other factors being the same), and that Black cop stops 75 Black people and 25 White people, then evidence of racism no longer exists. And that's what statistics have shown, that Black cops stop Black people at the same rate that White cops stop Black people. So the idea that Black people are stopped at a higher rate than White people because of racism is not supported. But somehow you want me/us to admit that is really the case. Finding common ground is a totally different angle than telling someone to admit something.

Like I said in my last sentence, my tone was not meant to be confrontational. Secondly, and this is confrontational, where exactly in my post (or tone) did you imagine that I don't believe there are instances where Black people get treated differently than White people by police. In fact, I pretty much laid out a plethora of (but very few) factors that mitigate a stop. Why won't you admit that you don't know what factors are involved, and that skin color might be a major factor or it might be a very minor factor or not a factor at all. You want me to admit something I do not know to be true, and you want me to admit it because you think it is true. That is why I brought of the statistics of Black cops versus White cops. If skin color of the person is a major factor, you would think that White cops would stop/ticket/arrest Blacks at a higher rate if racism is the underlining issue. But Black cops stop/ticket/arrest Black people at the same rate as White cops. That flies in the face of "White cops stopping Black people just because they are Black" as being racially motivated. Thirdly, in your third paragraph you chose to use a lecturing tone by telling me "if you read closely", then proceeded to describe basically the same thing I said. I'm curious as to why you prefaced that paragraph with "if you read closely" when I clearly outlined the same thing. Is that the confrontational tone you are using to chastise me and the rest of the board. And fourthly, I'm just mesmerized and extremely perplexed that you would have to audacity to somehow pull out of thin air some foreign concept that I'm opposed to stopping acts of injustice. What is this notion rooted in? And it sounds to me that you want everyone to admit that instances of injustice only apply to Black people? Why won't you admit that instances of injustice also happen to people of all colors? And why won't you admit that it is hard, if not impossible, to have a logical debate when you are being lectured to.

I agree with you here. Using an inflammatory or disgusting or shocking method can be the most powerful and effective way to draw attention to a topic, but you must be able to pivot the focus from that initial shock to the real topic. PETA, along with some others, have been very successful over the years of doing just that. If you can't pivot, and the focus of discussion continues to be the shock value, then you've pretty much lost, and in fact, can have the opposite effect, or the Streisand Effect.

Your asking both sides to admit what exactly? And why can't progress be made until both admit this unknown point you are trying to make? Why do you feel a Black person will be treated differently than a White person? Studies have shown that the rate of tickets/traffic stops/arrests are basically no different between Black cops and White cops. So what exactly are your trying to say or point to that signifies that Blacks will be treated differently than Whites? And what is this double standard that you allude to? I'm baffled by this statement. Are you saying that a Black person is more prone to harsher treatment than a White person when stopped by a cop? Does this apply when the officer is Black? If so, why? Do you feel that a Black cop will treat a Black person harsher than a White cop will treat a White person? Please explain, and please give supporting evidence. And now let's talk about "driving while Black". Is this "theory" still applicable when the officer is Black? What do the stats say? Do Black people know what it is like to be "driving while White"? Does the officer's skin color make a difference? Does the tone/attitude of the person stopped play a factor? And does this tone/attitude play a factor in regards to the race of the officer? Is the culture of one race a factor? Is time of day a factor? Is the area stopped a factor, especially if the person stopped is of a different race than the race of the majority in the surrounding neighborhood? Is clothing a factor? Is sex a factor? Is age a factor (both of the officer and the person stopped)? My point is that we know nothing about why Blacks have a higher incarceration/ticketed/stopped rate than Whites. And to say that one side has to admit anything before we know the slightest causation is absolutely the wrong path...and potentially harmful to advancement on the subject. But I would love to hear some answers to the above questions. And I'm not trying to bash you here. I was getting set to unleash these set of questions on 2wedge, but he chose to run. I probably inadvertently used the tone reserved for him.

I was just watching a rerun of "Dirty Harry". A line in the movie was the police chief responding to a question of if he will pay a ransom. The response was "The City of San Francisco does not pay criminals not to commit crimes. Instead, we pay a police department." Maybe someone should play that clip to the Sacramento citizens right before the next city council election.

Name one! And let's hear your backing evidence to support that claim so we can all get a big laugh. Such unmitigated foolishness that's so embarrassing that normal people would have a tough time recovering, but I suspect that you will just keep spouting your same lies without an ounce of moral dignity.

Name one person that doesn't believe there are wackos from every race. You Liberal leaders are making you look more foolish that you already are.

You should have quoted 2wedge when making that statement.

But he can fire you. Answer the question. If you went to work naked, does your boss have the right to fire you? You have a second amendment right to bear arms. Does your boss have the right to fire you if you bring a gun to work? Does a company have a right to ban your 2nd amendment right at their facility?

If Obamacare hasn't changed your insurance one bit, you are probably the only one in the U.S. that hasn't seen a change. Luckily my 80 year old neighbor and his 78 year old wife have free birth control, lactation support, free maternity counselling, free breastfeeding equipment, free maternity care, and countless other covered items they are sure to take advantage of in their golden years. Please show some evidence that Trump wants to get rid of the pre-existing conditions clause. Every position I've heard him take is that he will include that part in his new (renamed) version of Obamacare.

That first sentence illustrates precisely that you have absolutely no clue as to what you are talking about. I'm saying that you have zero clue as to what experiences people of all races go through. You talk to a few friends then make blanket judgments about people you have no clue about. Not only do you make blanket judgments, including negative racial stereotypes, you condescendingly admonish those you perceive as participating in the same practice. I could be wrong, but it seems clear that you do not have a background in the studies of race relations, but merely rely on stories passed on by friends or acquaintances...which somehow sets you on a pinnacle enabling you to pass judgment on the peons.

I was responding to your other post, but jumped to this one because it is a real doozy. Please enlightened me and the fellow uneducated/bigoted/racist board members on how you have come to your conclusion about me. Please show some evidence of my perceived (fabricated) racist behavior. How am I the "worst kind"? Please indulge us with some unperceived evidence from the self-labeled purveyor of knowledge. You accuse me of not opening my eyes to new ideas and that I have already made my mind up. Please give evidence of this contention. Your only argument in the evidence department is to use the worn out pathetic Liberal tactic of personal assault. And as I have stated many times on this board, I respond in kind. You came on here and basically called everyone a racist without the foggiest clue of what you were talking about, and I responded in kind. Why does it drive people like you insane when your same Liberal tactics of "debate" are reversed?

That is just pathetic and childish. You don't know squat about me or the subject, and you are the very definition of the problem. Keep calling me a racist and a bigot. Keep calling my whole family, relatives, and friends racists and bigots. Your ignorance is more profound every time you post. How about you start educating yourself of the effects of throwing money at a problem instead of rooting out the cause. Read a book or two on the negative effects of social justice engineering. You want to get on here and try to spout your superior intellectual capacities in a condescending manner, while totally oblivious to the fact that you know nothing. And your mind is obviously warped by the searing hatred someone instilled in you.

What makes you think that a Black man has the clairvoyance to determine the difference between a White man's experiences versus a Black man's experiences, but a White man is too stupid or incapable of like analysis. And what makes you think a Black man living in Seattle has any clue as to the plight of any Black man in Georgia, or New York, or Beaumont, TX. And more importantly, what makes you feel you are qualified to discuss race relations? Did you read the daily headlines from some whack-job Liberal newspaper then think, "I believe most White people want to kill all minorities". Somebody has done a number on you, which would be embarrassing for a normal person. But yet here you are, showing your intelligence level for all the world the see. Yeah, we know who is the piece of work.

That line of thinking comes straight out of your fantasyland. According to you, all White people, or the majority of White people are bigots and racist and want nothing short of extermination of all minorities and Jews. Is that about right? What percentage of White people do you consider to be racist? Please give a number and reveal to those that already don't see it how warped and pathetic your line of thinking is when referring to race relations.

And your point is?

Don't flatter yourself. You are just as bad...and I will continue to play your childish games. And you just showed your fake outrage because I responded in kind to new tobie, which elicited a scathing reaction, but somehow you give him a pass. Comical.

I am not trying to be "much better". I'm responding in kind. Why does it bother you so much but have nothing to say to new tobie. Your selective outrage is comical.

I don't think you are qualified to judge the meaning of "grown man"...and I'm not wondering. It's funny that the same tactics employed by the Liberals, when reversed them drive them insane. We can all see it and are enjoying the comedic display.

Can your boss force you to wear clothing at work? If you decide to become a nudist, should your boss have to capitulate to your demands of offending his clients?

I will have to disagree with you here Nash. Naivete suggests the evidence has not been available to new tobie, thus his ignorance on the subject. He has been sufficiently exposed to the evidence but absolutely refuses to acknowledge it. That would be willful naivete, which most people just refer to as stupidity.

I don't know about the other men in your family, but it is clear that you can't even think of anything that trashy. The best you can come up with is "grab um". That is as high as your intelligence level will allow you to go. You need a few more brain cells to achieve the immature stage.

And the crown is safely ensconced. As usual you have no idea about the topic at hand and just blurt out nonsense. At least you tried...right. Too bad that is just an example of your best.