Honest Abe

Half: Ned 51 Lumberton 17

End of 1st: Ned 19 Lumberton 12

Vidor will get their first District win of the season tonight.

[Hidden Content]

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[quote name="Dick Vitale" post="1371463" timestamp="1360337095"] BigCam 2903 (Whats up Big Fella!  8)) has JUST stated the EXACT same thing about MOST people on here NEVER understanding what it is to be a part of a real championship program, yet I get criticized for it, and Honest Abe cyber "high fives" him!  :o  Tell me I am not a TARGET on this forum!! That is EXACTLY what I have said all along...Most of you on here, JUST DONT GET IT, and since you have not (and probably never will) experience it, you will NEVER understand.....WOW.. ::) [/quote]Some people (Big Cam) know and UNDERSTAND the meaning of being humble. He acknowledged that he was no 'Brian Sallier' or 'Anthony Allen'. It's called being humble; you should try it sometime ;D Maybe, just maybe, you won't be a 'target' on here anymore. You created the 'target' on your back through your arrogant comments. We don't know you personally, yet you take everything personal. 8)

[quote name="BLUEDOVE3" post="1371445" timestamp="1360336119"] 20-4A District Champs 2010-2012 Bi-District Champs 2010-2012 Area Champs 2010-2012 Regional Quarter Finalist 2010-2012 Regional Semi-Finalist 2011 [s]HUGE[/s] Victory AT Ozen on 2/5/13!! [color=beige][/color] [/quote]How do you know the meaning of our Victory AT Ozen on 2/5/13?

[quote name="ozensfinest" post="1371333" timestamp="1360305162"] It really baffles me that you guys actually think that Nederland is good...I'm glad the playoff's are coming around so my point will be proven another year with a 2nd or 3rd round exit for y'all but i guess thats considered a good year at the BIG NED lol [/quote]Do you think we EXPECT to to win our region and go to state? NO! I have yet to see ONE Ned fan claiming that we are going to win the region. So 'your point' is irrelevant bc nobody is claiming a state appearance here in Big Ned. Different things can make a season successful, but you probably would not understand that. 8) A team who wins 25+ games a year for 4 years straight is 'in most circles' considered good. ::) So, actually, I change my mind. 'Your Point' has been PROVEN wrong! ;)

[quote name="Bigcam2903" post="1371331" timestamp="1360299199"] NDN 1989 Thanks for the shout-outs Lol. Didn't think anyone remembered me on the beehive teams. I wasn't Anthony Allen or Brian Sallier, but I think I had a solid career. I loved the days of the Bee Hive. I had the honor of playing the top of the press, how many starting centers today can say that. Chasing Central's Perry Hill was no picnic.  IMO no disrespect to the athletes today cuz Lord knows they are bigger faster & stronger, but the thing most of these kids lack is School Pride. Programs today have no tradition. No legacy to follow. In a 20 year span the Mighty Bumblebees averaged going to State every 2 yrs. A feat that may have not been duplicated by a boys team since. That's tradition. we went to state from 88-90, winning 3 titles. The freshman went 4 yrs in a row; need I say Tradition? So, when I hear the talk of basketball on here I sigh because most will never understand. Coach Gamble developed a program and under that blueprint, 2 other Coaches came & used his players & won Championships. To their credit they learned the ways of the Jedi Master & continued to hone their skills & developed their own programs. To me, all things go back to the best Coach I've ever known, Coach James Gamble. Kudos to Coach Boutte, he listened to his mentors, humbled himself & reaped the benefits of being a good pupil, waited his turn & put his own stamp on developing a program. Something the guys today are trying to do, just may take more time for those guys. Good luck to them. By the way, don't want to her that the talent is split between schools cuz we had that problem with 3 schools also 1 5A & 2 4A's.                 Campbell LHS 1990 [/quote]Great Post! And Perry Hill was no picnic! Chasing is the right word bc I don't think anyone actually guarded him ;D Must have been a fun time for you and your friends. Something MOST people don't experience...

[quote name="Mr. Buddy Garrity" post="1371282" timestamp="1360291581"] [quote author=Dick Vitale link=topic=108974.msg1371260#msg1371260 date=1360289663] [quote author=5 on 5 link=topic=108974.msg1371232#msg1371232 date=1360285488] Wasn't the forum nice while Dickie V was in hibernation. Every thread didn't turn into "The Dickie V knows everything, and everyone else is wrong" thread. I bet Kendrick Perkins, who according to Dickie V didnt have much basketball skill and was soft, sure is grateful that as fate would have it, he and Dickie V were brought together, so that Dickie V and Boutte with their godlike knowledge and ability could coach him right into the NBA.  ::) [/quote] First of all I ask that you not twist my words....I said thats what people who DO NOT know the game (as you people on here) were saying about him and he nor I NEVER forgot it...Its ok, I can be done with this thread, its gone on long enough...You people just do not know any better on here...It will never change. ::) ::) [quote author=Mr. Buddy Garrity link=topic=108974.msg1371236#msg1371236 date=1360286627] [quote author=baddog link=topic=108974.msg1371233#msg1371233 date=1360285744] Vidor beats Ozen = seniors vs. freshmen Nederland beats Ozen = Ozen on a down year and coaching sucks. [b]PNG beats Lincoln = Lincoln player dismissed from team.[/b] Ozen wins state = Boutte is a god and it does not matter how many down year teams, or "young" teams he defeated in the process because it doesn't support the god complex. Are there another excuses out there? I mean, do any of these other teams ever lose? [/quote] I remember that Lincoln team being loaded with talent  ;) [/quote] [b]Mr. Garrity, that [u]"loaded"[/u] Lincoln squad had a 6'3 post man (Brandon Carlisle) and their best player (Kevin Thomas)[/b] [b]in the stands[/b]...It DID help develop a young Solomon Jones and Otis Armstrong at the guard spot and got them ready for their state run the next season. [/quote] Doesnt matter, if you wore [b]Lincoln[/b] across your chest back in them days you could hoop, no excuses.  ;) [/quote];D

[quote name="baddog" post="1371233" timestamp="1360285744"] Vidor beats Ozen = seniors vs. freshmen Nederland beats Ozen = Ozen on a down year and coaching sucks. PNG beats Lincoln = Lincoln player dismissed from team. Ozen wins state = Boutte is a god and it does not matter how many down year teams, or "young" teams he defeated in the process because it doesn't support the god complex. Are there another excuses out there? I mean, do any of these other teams ever lose? [/quote];D ;D

[quote name="Dick Vitale" post="1371215" timestamp="1360282481"] [quote author=mytwocents link=topic=108974.msg1371213#msg1371213 date=1360282225] [quote author=Dick Vitale link=topic=108974.msg1371211#msg1371211 date=1360281938] [quote author=eknights88 link=topic=108974.msg1371207#msg1371207 date=1360281475] no all their saying is that English with close to egual talent beat Boutte 3 times. any other year wasnt close to egual talent so 3-0 english with close to egual talent [/quote] Thats not true...Vidor had a senior team...it was not close... Ozen was very young...Vidor was older, and they were talented....HOWEVER Ozen won the district that season, because Vidor could not beat Central, who also had some senior leadership.....sooooo, what are you saying?  ::) [/quote] How many d1 kids did that "sophomore" team have on it Dickie?? Cuz I can tell you how many vidor had. None. Not one. Jake (the 6 10 guy) went to a d2 school for god sakes and your saying they were the same talent wise?? Really man?!? Wow. [/quote] Sure I can tell you...How about ONE!...Kris Richards, who was a 10th grader, and played at Tulane....Jake was better as a SENIOR than Kris was as a 10th Grader....Rod Bellard went D2, Joe Lamb went Juco, and they were juniors...NEXT! ::)....FYI...Some D2's ARE better than MOST D1's.....Just FYI.. ;) [/quote]Since when does classification matter when debating talent levels? Kentucky was full of Freshmen last year and won a Natl Championship! Johnny FB won the Heisman as a Frosh! Let's see: 2 kids with D1 talent and another with D2 talent vs a Senior laden team with ONE D2 kid. Hmmm? I wonder who had more overall talent on the team?? Too easy! Try again to figure out why VIDOR BEAT OZEN THREE TIMES IN ONE SEASON!!

5 people have agreed with you, yet you keep bragging and praising your idol. NOBODY, again, NOBODY has suggested Boutte was not a good coach. ::)

[quote name="Dick Vitale" post="1371130" timestamp="1360269890"] [quote author=bigdog link=topic=108974.msg1371121#msg1371121 date=1360269362] I don't disagree, but talent wise he had more to work with.  I think that is the point that others are trying to make.  It wasn't exactly a blank slate like Ned and Vidor. [/quote] OK, but would you agree that Westbrook, Silsbee, and Central for example ALL had talented enough teams to win or even GO to state, but did not make it? It takes MORE than talent alone to win it all...Coaching plays a HUGE factor in winning big. Particularly at the 4A and 5A level...These guys REFUSE to acknowledge what was done by him was special over the years, by making the excuse of built in talent as if NO WORK was involved..THAT is what burns my hide about it! >:( [quote author=Stevenash link=topic=108974.msg1371122#msg1371122 date=1360269496] [quote author=Dick Vitale link=topic=108974.msg1371115#msg1371115 date=1360268833] [quote author=bigdog link=topic=108974.msg1371114#msg1371114 date=1360268672] Your barking up the wrong tree DV. No one is saying Boutte can't coach.  He has proven himself. [/quote] Proven himself more than once at at multiple schools, and with different groups of kids, and with different levels of talent....And saying that he couldn't do what English did at Vidor is utterly ridiculous...The guy's resume speaks for itself. [/quote] Nobody is questioning Mr. Bouttes ability to coach.  What is being questioned is your suggestion/inference that he is the Messiah and that nobody can compare to him.  You are simply wrong about that.  He would not have had the same degree of success( in terms of titles- which seems to be your only barometer) if he had taken jobs at Dayton and Liberty instead of Lincoln and Ozen.  Also, why is his stint at Kountze never discussed by you? [/quote] He was at Kountze from 87-89...He did well there, just had not won state yet in HIS FIRST TWO YEARS OF COACHING, period...Right out of college, mind you...Come on! :o...However, went to Lincoln, went to state, won it all twice and NO ONE ELSE did it after he left...Gamble came out of retirement and went to Austin in 99....ANOTHER great coach...If it were Sutherland, you would be on here talking about what a MAGNIFICENT achievement it was....typical... ::) [/quote][quote author=bigdog link=topic=108974.msg1371144#msg1371144 date=1360270592] [quote author=Dick Vitale link=topic=108974.msg1371130#msg1371130 date=1360269890] [quote author=bigdog link=topic=108974.msg1371121#msg1371121 date=1360269362] I don't disagree, but talent wise he had more to work with.  I think that is the point that others are trying to make.  It wasn't exactly a blank slate like Ned and Vidor. [/quote] OK, but would you agree that Westbrook, Silsbee, and Central for example ALL had talented enough teams to win or even GO to state, but did not make it? It takes MORE than talent alone to win it all...Coaching plays a HUGE factor in winning big. Particularly at the 4A and 5A level...These guys REFUSE to acknowledge what was done by him was special over the years, by making the excuse of built in talent as if NO WORK was involved..THAT is what burns my hide about it! >:( [quote author=Stevenash link=topic=108974.msg1371122#msg1371122 date=1360269496] [quote author=Dick Vitale link=topic=108974.msg1371115#msg1371115 date=1360268833] [quote author=bigdog link=topic=108974.msg1371114#msg1371114 date=1360268672] Your barking up the wrong tree DV. No one is saying Boutte can't coach.  He has proven himself. [/quote] Proven himself more than once at at multiple schools, and with different groups of kids, and with different levels of talent....And saying that he couldn't do what English did at Vidor is utterly ridiculous...The guy's resume speaks for itself. [/quote] Nobody is questioning Mr. Bouttes ability to coach.  What is being questioned is your suggestion/inference that he is the Messiah and that nobody can compare to him.  You are simply wrong about that.  He would not have had the same degree of success( in terms of titles- which seems to be your only barometer) if he had taken jobs at Dayton and Liberty instead of Lincoln and Ozen.  Also, why is his stint at Kountze never discussed by you? [/quote] He was at Kountze from 87-89...He did well there, just had not won state yet in HIS FIRST TWO YEARS OF COACHING, period...Right out of college, mind you...Come on! :o...However, went to Lincoln, went to state, won it all twice and NO ONE ELSE did it after he left...Gamble came out of retirement and went to Austin in 99....ANOTHER great coach...If it were Sutherland, you would be on here talking about what a MAGNIFICENT achievement it was....typical... ::) [/quote] I am not questioning that coaching has a lot to do with it, in fact that is the my point.  I am also not saying that English is a better coach.  my point is that Boutte had more to work with from that start at Ozen, and wasn't exactly hurting at Lincoln either, as they had already one 4 or 5 Championships by the time he got there. ( I don't know when he started at Lincoln)  ,  Also quit trying to make this a racial issue. [/quote]Thank You, Thank you, and Thank You!

[quote name="Dick Vitale" post="1371107" timestamp="1360268186"] [quote author=Honest Abe link=topic=108974.msg1371100#msg1371100 date=1360267735] Funny how you can be 99.9% sure about something earlier today only to be proven wrong, yet you get on here 10 minutes later acting like WE are a bunch of Dumb--- who don't have a clue about anything basketball related. Seems that more than just yourself actually KNOWS something about Bball or has an opinion about it. Do you really believe you are a basketball god or something? Come on man!! [/quote]\ I know what I know...Hate it or love, it is what it is....I grew up around PA Lincoln basketball, for obvious reasons, but I played in Houston...Heck we beat Lincoln by 20 that year, but we knew how good they were still. I had no idea PNG beat them, since it seemed so far fetched, but apparently they did...I am not perfect, but I know my sh--! Hate it or love, you have to respect it.... ;) [quote author=Honest Abe link=topic=108974.msg1371102#msg1371102 date=1360267913] [quote author=Dick Vitale link=topic=108974.msg1371096#msg1371096 date=1360267569] That Vidor team in 2004 had some really good SENIORS in that program, aside from the fact that English CAN coach...See unlike you, I acknowledge when guys can coach...You folks that really do not understand the game tend to think that since Vidor beat Ozen that year (and still did not win district) it makes English a better coach...Though he is good, the resumes are FAR from equal. [/quote]How many of Vidor's players went D1 that year? ZERO!!! The big kid played at a D2 school. McMurray maybe?? Hardly the caliber of talent Ozen had that year. Are you telling me Boutte would have some the same with the Vidor program AND the Nederland program?? I'll answer that one, no way!! ::) [/quote] So you are saying Boutte could NOT coach and English is better? I would say that 3 and FOREVER vs. Boutte says otherwise....Like I said, you folks in SE Texas REFUSE to give credit where it is due, and the reasons are sickening... [/quote]I NEVER said Boutte could not coach. I just don't think he would have won as the coach at Vidor or Nederland. Who is NOT giving credit other than YOU!! You are trying to compare apples to oranges, and we are calling you out on it.

[quote name="Dick Vitale" post="1371092" timestamp="1360267320"] Man are you serious? Is Trent Johnson a better coach than Bill Self because they lost at TCU last night? LOOK AT THE RECORD vs. English!! It's like 35-3! You want to talk about being outcoached? That 2004 team was basically a JV team, and they went to the regional tourney and won the district OUTRIGHT! Thats not a GREAT coaching job? You people amaze me at your thought process when it comes to non-white coaches and teams....Contrary to what you folks think, we didn't just roll the balls out and win state! Those kids were COACHED. [/quote]who suggested Trent Johnson is a better coach than bill Self?

[quote name="Dick Vitale" post="1371096" timestamp="1360267569"] That Vidor team in 2004 had some really good SENIORS in that program, aside from the fact that English CAN coach...See unlike you, I acknowledge when guys can coach...You folks that really do not understand the game tend to think that since Vidor beat Ozen that year (and still did not win district) it makes English a better coach...Though he is good, the resumes are FAR from equal. [/quote]How many of Vidor's players went D1 that year? ZERO!!! The big kid played at a D2 school. McMurray maybe?? Hardly the caliber of talent Ozen had that year. Are you telling me Boutte would have some the same with the Vidor program AND the Nederland program?? I'll answer that one, no way!! ::) Do you believe English would not have taken to/won state as the coach at Ozen during those years? With all of that talent, I think so! ;)

Funny how you can be 99.9% sure about something earlier today only to be proven wrong, yet you get on here 10 minutes later acting like WE are a bunch of Dumb--- who don't have a clue about anything basketball related. Seems that more than just yourself actually KNOWS something about Bball or has an opinion about it. Do you really believe you are a basketball god or something? Come on man!!

[quote name="Dick Vitale" post="1371084" timestamp="1360266736"] Vidor DID beat Ozen in 2004....Three times (once in a tourney)...Ozen STILL won the district [b]outright[/b], and advaced further than Vidor in the playoffs, with a VERY young squad....Would you care to talley up the total number of wins and losses during the Boutte era against English coached teams? I didn't think you would.... ::)..(its something like 3-35 vs. Boutte's teams) And if you think you could just roll the balls out at Ozen and win, you are SADLY mistaken...Kendrick Perkins was not always KENDRICK PERKINS...Remember when you SE Texans would call him soft, and overrated? I do..He had to be developed like any other player, but some of you seem to think he walked into our gym "Celtic ready"....SMH....That's where COACHING comes in... ::) ::) [/quote]3-35? What kind of math is that? English was at Vidor for 6/7 years? So maybe more like 3-10 or 3-12. 4 of those years with multiple D1 kids AND a future NBA player! Wait! Wait! Wait! Are you suggesting that the talent level in Vidor was the same during that time as it was at Ozen? ??? Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!! You've really lost it now DV! DELUSIONAL!!

[quote name="ozensfinest" post="1371076" timestamp="1360266136"] [quote author=BIG SHOW link=topic=108974.msg1371072#msg1371072 date=1360265993] [quote author=Honest Abe link=topic=108974.msg1371066#msg1371066 date=1360265639] [quote author=ozensfinest link=topic=108974.msg1371059#msg1371059 date=1360265189] [quote author=Honest Abe link=topic=108974.msg1371049#msg1371049 date=1360264663] [quote author=Stevenash link=topic=108974.msg1371026#msg1371026 date=1360262387] Dickie- is it true that one year Mr. English defeated Mr. Boutte more than once while coaching "just" Vidor? [/quote]I believe 3 times in one year! I'm sure there was an excuse for that as well... ::) [/quote]Was that in 98 or 03? [/quote][quote author=ozensfinest link=topic=108974.msg1371059#msg1371059 date=1360265189] [quote author=Honest Abe link=topic=108974.msg1371049#msg1371049 date=1360264663] [quote author=Stevenash link=topic=108974.msg1371026#msg1371026 date=1360262387] Dickie- is it true that one year Mr. English defeated Mr. Boutte more than once while coaching "just" Vidor? [/quote]I believe 3 times in one year! I'm sure there was an excuse for that as well... ::) [/quote]Was that in 98 or 03? [/quote]Not sure. Maybe a Vidor fan knows or AAW? I believe it may have been the year after Perk went to the NBA? If Ned had an NBA player on the team, I would expect us to go to state every year too. Not everyone has that luxury. [/quote] It doesnt matter what year it was! The point is that Boutte was the coach!!!  There are several coaches in the area who would of won state with that Ozen team.... [/quote]Ok how many time after that did coach English Bouttee? And I believe that same team went on to state that year sooooooo? [/quote]That just proves he was able to out-coach Boutte. If Ozen was so good that year, how did they lose to the same team 3 times?? Not to mention it was Vidor who he lost to (no offense MyTwoCents ;) )! English went to Ned shortly after to build the Ned program. By the time he got Ned to be competitive, Boutte was gone.

[quote name="ozensfinest" post="1371069" timestamp="1360265938"] [quote author=Honest Abe link=topic=108974.msg1371066#msg1371066 date=1360265639] [quote author=ozensfinest link=topic=108974.msg1371059#msg1371059 date=1360265189] [quote author=Honest Abe link=topic=108974.msg1371049#msg1371049 date=1360264663] [quote author=Stevenash link=topic=108974.msg1371026#msg1371026 date=1360262387] Dickie- is it true that one year Mr. English defeated Mr. Boutte more than once while coaching "just" Vidor? [/quote]I believe 3 times in one year! I'm sure there was an excuse for that as well... ::) [/quote]Was that in 98 or 03? [/quote][quote author=ozensfinest link=topic=108974.msg1371059#msg1371059 date=1360265189] [quote author=Honest Abe link=topic=108974.msg1371049#msg1371049 date=1360264663] [quote author=Stevenash link=topic=108974.msg1371026#msg1371026 date=1360262387] Dickie- is it true that one year Mr. English defeated Mr. Boutte more than once while coaching "just" Vidor? [/quote]I believe 3 times in one year! I'm sure there was an excuse for that as well... ::) [/quote]Was that in 98 or 03? [/quote]Not sure. Maybe a Vidor fan knows or AAW? I believe it may have been the year after Perk went to the NBA? If Ned had an NBA player on the team, I would expect us to go to state every year too. Not everyone has that luxury. [/quote]Ozen didn't have a NBA player in 07 and went to state with a team full of sophomores sooooooo? [/quote]That's a great accomplishment, no doubt. Did you EXPECT Ozen to go to state that year? What about the years in between Perk and '07? Also, was that all coaching or good talent? Maybe a bit of both? There were 3-4 kids who played at the next level. One kid who was Mountain West player of the year. Again, those type of players come along sometimes. We are getting away from the topic. The FACT remains the Boutte was the coach at Ozen the year English and Vidor beat them 3 times. 

[quote name="ozensfinest" post="1371059" timestamp="1360265189"] [quote author=Honest Abe link=topic=108974.msg1371049#msg1371049 date=1360264663] [quote author=Stevenash link=topic=108974.msg1371026#msg1371026 date=1360262387] Dickie- is it true that one year Mr. English defeated Mr. Boutte more than once while coaching "just" Vidor? [/quote]I believe 3 times in one year! I'm sure there was an excuse for that as well... ::) [/quote]Was that in 98 or 03? [/quote][quote author=ozensfinest link=topic=108974.msg1371059#msg1371059 date=1360265189] [quote author=Honest Abe link=topic=108974.msg1371049#msg1371049 date=1360264663] [quote author=Stevenash link=topic=108974.msg1371026#msg1371026 date=1360262387] Dickie- is it true that one year Mr. English defeated Mr. Boutte more than once while coaching "just" Vidor? [/quote]I believe 3 times in one year! I'm sure there was an excuse for that as well... ::) [/quote]Was that in 98 or 03? [/quote]Not sure. Maybe a Vidor fan knows or AAW? I believe it may have been the year after Perk went to the NBA? If Ned had an NBA player on the team, I would expect us to go to state every year too. Not everyone has that luxury.

[quote name="LAZEEK" post="1371032" timestamp="1360262921"] Sutherland is 619-111 in the midst of his 20th year That is rounding up to 31-6 on average [/quote]His record is likely amongst the highest winning %s in the state during that period of time if not THE highest. Would like to see a more impressive résumé based on pure numbers as you provided. The other coaches were impressive at 22-7/year. Sutherland is a man amongst boys in that category.

[quote name="bigdog" post="1371033" timestamp="1360263020"] Let me use an example here, you might think its an apples-to-oranges comparison, but stay with me. For the first 15 or so years after Nederland established a soccer program, they dominated the area setting a National record for consecutive district championships at 15 , I think.  In the last few years , the district has caught up and is much more competitive and Nederland does not win the DC every year.  So had Nederland declined or did the rest of the district improve?  Probably a little of both. [/quote]Perfect analysis. It happens. Boise State beat mighty Oklahoma a few years ago in a BCS game. 10 years before that, it would have never happened. People would have laughed at the thought. Times change, but some just can't accept it.

[quote name="Stevenash" post="1371026" timestamp="1360262387"] Dickie- is it true that one year Mr. English defeated Mr. Boutte more than once while coaching "just" Vidor? [/quote]I believe 3 times in one year! I'm sure there was an excuse for that as well... ::)