Honest Abe

[quote name="Dick Vitale" post="1370964" timestamp="1360254609"] [quote author=Stevenash link=topic=108974.msg1370962#msg1370962 date=1360254228] [quote author=team first link=topic=108974.msg1370935#msg1370935 date=1360249604] [quote author=Dick Vitale link=topic=108974.msg1370898#msg1370898 date=1360215625] PNG NEVER BEAT LINCOLN....EVER...Next question. [/quote] Wrong again dickie v, png beat lincoln in 92. [/quote] Holy Cow!!!!!!  Is it true?  Was Dickie V wrong?  Impossible!!!!!!! [/quote] 91-92, they were young, but still won district....They lost at LCM that year, not PNG...I will call and ask, but I am about 99% sure it was NOT PNG... [/quote]Im pretty sure Team First would know that information. ;)

[quote name="CATMAN" post="1370940" timestamp="1360250274"] [quote author=pinelandflash link=topic=108925.msg1370892#msg1370892 date=1360213329] Is this list all-time best or current? Don't know much about the current coaches but any all-time list would be incomplete without Jack Whitton. Won two titles at West Sabine in the 60's. Look up his stats. [/quote]  Is record was 512 win  175 lost        24 years. [/quote]Im sure DV will give a reason to discredit his accomplishments.

[quote name="CATMAN" post="1370940" timestamp="1360250274"] [quote author=pinelandflash link=topic=108925.msg1370892#msg1370892 date=1360213329] Is this list all-time best or current? Don't know much about the current coaches but any all-time list would be incomplete without Jack Whitton. Won two titles at West Sabine in the 60's. Look up his stats. [/quote]  Is record was 512 win  175 lost        24 years. [/quote]An average season for him was 21-7! Impressive!!

TCU has not won a game in 2013, and Kansas has not lost consecutive games in 7 years, until last night. TCU should never beat the Jayhawks, right? The Horned Frogs won last night 62-55. 8)

WOW!! You just answered my question from the other thread about why teams like Nederland should never beat the Ozen's of the world....As Cyndi Lauper sang 'And we see your true colors shinning through...' Sad you think that way...

This reminds me of last year when someone (DV) said 20-4A was the weakest district in the state. Teams 2 teams went three deep and the other team went 4 deep. Same discussion, different year. ::) The Region is wide open this year. Not one dominant team other than Galveston Ball. ;) Again, how many teams have you watched played in Region 3 this year?

[quote name="ozensfinest" post="1370869" timestamp="1360205580"] Ok i have to put my two cents in this thread...the thing you fans don't understand is that teams like nederland central etc isn't that good and Ozen is still heads above the rest they just don't have the coach to show it I'm willing to bet money that if Bouttee was to take over again next season Ozen would be back running 20-4A a problem I've always had with local area fans is that they seem to have tunnel vision when it comes to their teams and lose sight of being realistic...Do you guys honestly think Nederland has a chance to make it out of Region 3? Do you guys honestly think that any team in 20-4A is state championship contender? Heck no not even close and it will show in the playoffs...stop trying to say the reason Ozen isn't dominating is because the talent is spread all over Beaumont because it has always  been that way WB has had studs and Central has had STUD its just that when it came down to who had the better PROGRAM it wasn't even close Ozen isn't the same program because of the guy who took over the program its that simple and the proofs in the pudding...Think about it when was the last time Ozen won district outright? Under bouttee...Ozen first lost in history to central was under who? Saveat are you starting to see a trend here? [/quote][quote author=ozensfinest link=topic=108974.msg1370869#msg1370869 date=1360205580] Ok i have to put my two cents in this thread...the thing you fans don't understand is that teams like nederland central etc isn't that good and Ozen is still heads above the rest they just don't have the coach to show it I'm willing to bet money that if Bouttee was to take over again next season Ozen would be back running 20-4A a problem I've always had with local area fans is that they seem to have tunnel vision when it comes to their teams and lose sight of being realistic...Do you guys honestly think Nederland has a chance to make it out of Region 3? Do you guys honestly think that any team in 20-4A is state championship contender? Heck no not even close and it will show in the playoffs...stop trying to say the reason Ozen isn't dominating is because the talent is spread all over Beaumont because it has always  been that way WB has had studs and Central has had STUD its just that when it came down to who had the better PROGRAM it wasn't even close Ozen isn't the same program because of the guy who took over the program its that simple and the proofs in the pudding...Think about it when was the last time Ozen won district outright? Under bouttee...Ozen first lost in history to central was under who? Saveat are you starting to see a trend here? [/quote]So....there is one, maybe two teams in the region ahead of Central, yet they have no chance? Come on man! Apparently you put all of your stock in state polls. The #1 team in the state the last 2 years have NOT win the title. Two years ago, a team who finished 2nd in their district, yet won the region and made it to the state finals! Narrow minded you are! ;)

[quote name="1989NDN" post="1370875" timestamp="1360208694"] I remember back in the day when PA Lincoln was beat by PNG  :o [/quote] Off topic...reply to earlier post...and random thoughts... I don't believe PN-G ever beat PA Lincoln.  It did not happen as far back as I can remember...and my memory goes back to 1974.  Coach Don Bryson had some decent teams at PN-G with Monte Wainwright, the Westbrook brothers (Steve, Greg, and Brad), and with Bobby Straface, but I do not remember the Indians ever upsetting the Bees.  We came close in 1988-1989 at the gym on The Reservation, but Lincoln's B.J. Tyler, Ronald Campbell, Kelvin McKyer, and Marlon Jackson pulled out a 1 or 2-point win.  The Bees won district, pressed teams into defeat during the playoffs, and they won another state championship.  The Bees won back-to-back state trophies in 1988-1989.  They were dominant.  B.J. Tyler was a man among boys and Lincoln had a deep bench of 6'4" to 6'6" guys that played "in your jock" suffocating defense.  PN-G kept things close with a slow pace of play, 6'1" SG Bobby Straface hitting big shots, and 6'9" Michael Jeter playing great defense and battling Ronald Campbell on the glass...but, Lincoln's depth and B.J. Tyler were too much to handle. Does anyone remember PN-G beating PA Lincoln?  If so, what year was it? Anyone remember when old Beaumont French, BC-P, Hebert, and Lincoln went back and forth from about 1977-1981 or 1982?  No break-away rims back then...dunks would shake the backboards for what seemed like 3 or 4 minutes. Back on topic.... Go Indians.  Peace. [/quote]Maybe when Joel LaFleur played in early 90's?? That guy was legit.

[quote name="dogs1218" post="1370874" timestamp="1360208283"] [quote author=ozensfinest link=topic=108974.msg1370869#msg1370869 date=1360205580] Ok i have to put my two cents in this thread...the thing you fans don't understand is that teams like nederland central etc isn't that good and Ozen is still heads above the rest they just don't have the coach to show it I'm willing to bet money that if Bouttee was to take over again next season Ozen would be back running 20-4A a problem I've always had with local area fans is that they seem to have tunnel vision when it comes to their teams and lose sight of being realistic...Do you guys honestly think Nederland has a chance to make it out of Region 3? Do you guys honestly think that any team in 20-4A is state championship contender? Heck no not even close and it will show in the playoffs...stop trying to say the reason Ozen isn't dominating is because the talent is spread all over Beaumont because it has always  been that way WB has had studs and Central has had STUD its just that when it came down to who had the better PROGRAM it wasn't even close Ozen isn't the same program because of the guy who took over the program its that simple and the proofs in the pudding...Think about it when was the last time Ozen won district outright? Under bouttee...Ozen first lost in history to central was under who? Saveat are you starting to see a trend here? [/quote] And you say other people have tunnel vision.. ::) [/quote]I'm guessing OF is someone who also predicted aTm would not compete in the Big 12. I'm not an aTm fan, but I'll give credit where it has been earned. Nederland could win 10 District championships in a row, and some people would not give them a chance the following year. Sounds like OF and DV run in the same circle. They can't accept Nederland as being a contender no matter what. I wonder what team(s) OF has seen play this year to make him/her believe Ned has no chance to make it out of the region? Is there a team so dominant that they CAN'T be beaten? I think not. 8)

[quote name="AggiesAreWe" post="1370783" timestamp="1360185070"] [quote author=Stevenash link=topic=108974.msg1370780#msg1370780 date=1360184741] [quote author=Dick Vitale link=topic=108974.msg1370770#msg1370770 date=1360183601] Stevenash don't start that about Ozen getting the best in Beaumont, because that was certainly NOT the case.  I will say this again: WESTBROOK AND CENTRAL HAVE ALWAYS HAD TALENT. And in some years MORE than we did at Ozen. This year Central has GREAT young talent, but the only way Nederland has ANY shot at beating them is the fact that Brian English is a much better coach than Central's coach...MUCH BETTER. With the right guy on the Central sideline, they blow that district away, UNDEFEATED. JUST like we did.... ;) [/quote] Let me  pose this question to you Dickie.  If Boutte was at Ozen and you were at Central, who would win the head to head matches and who would win the district title? [/quote] I cannot wait for this response!!! ;D [/quote]Grab some popcorn!

[quote name="BLUEDOVE3" post="1370767" timestamp="1360183266"] The more I think about this, Nederland displayed a lot of disrespect last night, and I won't forget it >:( Yall came out in a man to man...very disrespectful Colton at the point..very disrespectful..dude stood out there like a "brother" on a 5th Ward playground..."come and guard me." [/quote]That's too funny! I thought playing zone last game was also disrespectful. ;D I'm confused!!! Could be wrong, but I don't think TopDawg is from Nederland?

[quote name="Stevenash" post="1370697" timestamp="1360172816"] [quote author=Dick Vitale link=topic=108974.msg1370605#msg1370605 date=1360164724] [quote author=team first link=topic=108974.msg1370602#msg1370602 date=1360164246] i think the better statement would be its not the same nederland. [/quote] I agree 100%...Nederland is not the same either, thanks to the leader of that program, BUT...The fact that Ozen no longer has the same championship swagger is more apparent...it's not an EMBARRASSING loss, but it's just not the same. You think PA Lincoln would EVER lose to Nederland? It just was not happening. That's how that program was built, and although it was not the same in the end, they still beat who they were EXPECTED to beat. I mean close games with PNG?? That's not suppose to happen at Ozen, but it's just not the same Ozen. [/quote] You are right- its not the same Ozen.  The talent is spread across Beaumont now instead of the majority of basketball players going to Ozen as they once did.  You keep mentioning things such as "do you think PA Lincoln would EVER lose to Nederland?  A few years ago, you could have also asked "do you think Ozen would EVER lose to Vidor" and we now know the answer. [/

[quote name="Stevenash" post="1370697" timestamp="1360172816"] [quote author=Dick Vitale link=topic=108974.msg1370605#msg1370605 date=1360164724] [quote author=team first link=topic=108974.msg1370602#msg1370602 date=1360164246] i think the better statement would be its not the same nederland. [/quote] I agree 100%...Nederland is not the same either, thanks to the leader of that program, BUT...The fact that Ozen no longer has the same championship swagger is more apparent...it's not an EMBARRASSING loss, but it's just not the same. You think PA Lincoln would EVER lose to Nederland? It just was not happening. That's how that program was built, and although it was not the same in the end, they still beat who they were EXPECTED to beat. I mean close games with PNG?? That's not suppose to happen at Ozen, but it's just not the same Ozen. [/quote] You are right- its not the same Ozen.  The talent is spread across Beaumont now instead of the majority of basketball players going to Ozen as they once did.  You keep mentioning things such as "do you think PA Lincoln would EVER lose to Nederland?  A few years ago, you could have also asked "do you think Ozen would EVER lose to Vidor" and we now know the answer. [/quote]Same can be said in all sports at all levels. It's cyclical. Duke, NC, Kentucky are usually elite teams. Sometimes they are not as good bc of different reasons. Sometimes it's talent, sometimes it's team chemistry. This year Kentucky is 'down'. I remember the days when aTm basketball was at the bottom year in/year out. Then a new coach, new scheme, and they start winning. Then another coach comes in and they are not so good. Now they are decent again. It's only natural. Same can be said for Baylor FB and BBall. DV just has can't accept change. Funny bc on the political board he was all about 'CHANGE'!! ;D ;D

[quote name="Razor" post="1370712" timestamp="1360173952"] I have no problem with refs talking to fans from one team or another before games...fact is, these guys know many people who attend games and the fact that they talk to them does not indicate to me that they are bias one way or another...most officials are professional enough to seperate the two. As for last night, I did not find the officiating to be blatantly horrible or bias...I do think the travelling call agaist Nederland late in the game after an Ozen miss was pretty bad...easy to travel when you are being tackled...there was also a pretty blatant missed called as English tried to post up and was run over as the entry pass came in, both at key times...I will admit that I am a Nederland fan and my eye is likely biased toward watching those calls...I am sure Ozen likely feels that they had some calls go against them...my point is this...I don't think the officiating determined the outcome of the game (and it shouldn't)...very rarely does it. I also agree that Lorimer stepped up in a big way last night that doesn't necessarily show up in the box score...Nederland has to have someone besides Weisbrod and English contribute in a big way in order to win these type games...last night, it was Lorimer, plus a pretty good team defensive effort...they forced Ozen into taking difficult shots for the most part and it worked out. Dove, your son is quite the player...I continue to be very impressed with his play...he is one of those kids who is going to get his points, you just have to be sure that he has to work hard to get them. [/quote]Great Post Razor! Refs are gonna miss calls, no doubt. With those bad calls in crucial situations, that easily COULD have determined the outcome. Fortunately our kids fought hard through those bad calls and still won with focus and determination. Points don't always show who had the most impact in a game. Lorimier was huge last night and (as you mentioned) the overall team effort on defense.

[quote name="AggiesAreWe" post="1370683" timestamp="1360171301"] BTW, if the tall official is the same College Station chapter official that officiated the HJ/Silsbee game at Ford Arena, then I can understand why he greeted and chatted with some fans at the game. He is from this area. [/quote]Bingo! That explains it all then and confirms our suspicions of his biased officiating last night (not in a Silsbee/HJ game or a Houston area game), last night.

[quote name="AggiesAreWe" post="1370680" timestamp="1360170807"] [quote author=5 on 5 link=topic=108974.msg1370676#msg1370676 date=1360170422] [quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=108974.msg1370669#msg1370669 date=1360169795] Which ref? The bigger one? If so, he shook hands with everybody at the start of the game, or at least tried to. He tried shaking hands with the kid in the tie (bookkeeper?), but the kid didn't see the ref extend his hand to him. [/quote] Yes the tall one. I'm talking about him mingling with the Ozen fans like he knew every one of them. Same ref that gave coach E a tech in our 1st game against Ozen. [b]Maybe he's just mad coach E wouldn't agree to a local chapter and he had to drive all the way from college station. [/b]Regardless, horrible ref. [/quote] The officials did not "have" to come to Beaumont. They could have very easily turned the game down. Those guys get paid for the mileage so that is not an issue. A lot of the officials across the state know each other so seeing one greet another in the stands is no big deal. [/quote]Is it also the norm to shake hands and talk to fans who are not officials? It was apparent that he knew other fans than just that one ref.

[quote name="BLUEDOVE3" post="1370679" timestamp="1360170749"] The same guy gave an Ozen coach a warning too.  ;) I've seen that guy ref on several occasions in Houston. He's a good ref as long as you don't get on his bad side. [/quote]Seriously?? If you get on a ref's bad side that mean its ok to call a biased game? ???

[quote name="BLUEDOVE3" post="1370669" timestamp="1360169795"] Which ref? The bigger one? If so, he shook hands with everybody at the start of the game, or at least tried to. He tried shaking hands with the kid in the tie (bookkeeper?), but the kid didn't see the ref extend his hand to him. [/quote]He'a talking about shaking hands with Ozen fans. One of them happens to be a Bmt. Chapter ref sitting in the front row across from scorer's table. He had a conversation with him in passing.

[quote name="BLUEDOVE3" post="1370657" timestamp="1360169401"] [quote author=Stevenash link=topic=108974.msg1370643#msg1370643 date=1360168792] [color=red][font=verdana][size=18pt]20-4A District Champs 2010-2012 Bi-District Champs 2010-2012 Area Champs 2010-2012 Regional Quarter Finalist 2010-2012 Regional Semi-Finalist 2011[/size][/font][/color] [/quote] :'( Tis worse to toil and win district and lose in the 1st round playoffs Thou would rather come in 2nd or 3rd in thou's district to reach Austin  ;D [/quote]Who wouldn't?? The win last night was huge for us as a confidence builder. An Ozen win last night would've had a lasting affect on Ned's mentality and confidence going into the playoffs against Crosby or Humble.

[quote name="Yeoj" post="1370624" timestamp="1360167041"] [quote author=Honest Abe link=topic=108974.msg1370622#msg1370622 date=1360166732] [quote author=Yeoj link=topic=108974.msg1370615#msg1370615 date=1360166006] [quote author=Bulldog10 link=topic=108974.msg1370359#msg1370359 date=1360118739] That why I couldn'tmake it.... Nederland always plays 8 on 5 there [/quote] Just like when teams play 8 on 5 in Nederland. [/quote]The refs in both meetings were from the College Station chapter. So if you are insinuating home town cooking, then fish elsewhere. 2 of the refs officiating both games. The 3rd ref mentioned from last night did everything in his power to enable an advantage for the Panthers. If you weren't there, then you wouldn't understand. Ozen fans sitting near the Ned fans were laughing about his calls bc they were so blatantly obvious. obvious. [/quote] I'm not insinuating anything. I'm saying that I have witnessed "home cooking" for Nederland in a home basketball game where the Refs did everything in their power to enable an advantage for the Bulldogs. [/quote]Sorry I accused you of that. I misread your post. Home cooking does happen in every gym/field from time to time, no doubt. For someone to claim home cooking in the Ned/Ozen game last month or last night is ignorant (lack of knowledge). As I mentioned, the refs were from the College Station chapter. Maybe that one ref had a friend or cousin who use to go Ozen, bc he was horrific.  ;D

[quote name="baddog" post="1370634" timestamp="1360167937"] Typical loser's stance bringing in the refs. Funny how Ozen is never outplayed. It was either bad coaching or bad refs...and that is what is fed to their players. Ozen lost....deal with it. [/quote]No, Ozen fans were not complaining of the referees, Nederland fans did. Even in a winning effort, the refs can play a huge factor in the game. If you notice, Ozen fans are not denying what is being claimed by Ned fans. 8)

[quote name="Yeoj" post="1370615" timestamp="1360166006"] [quote author=Bulldog10 link=topic=108974.msg1370359#msg1370359 date=1360118739] That why I couldn'tmake it.... Nederland always plays 8 on 5 there [/quote] Just like when teams play 8 on 5 in Nederland. [/quote]The refs in both meetings were from the College Station chapter. So if you are insinuating home town cooking, then fish elsewhere. 2 of the refs officiated both games. The 3rd ref mentioned from last night did everything in his power to enable an advantage for the Panthers. If you weren't there, then you wouldn't understand. Ozen fans sitting near the Ned fans were laughing about his calls bc they were so blatantly obvious. 

[quote name="Dick Vitale" post="1370605" timestamp="1360164724"] [quote author=team first link=topic=108974.msg1370602#msg1370602 date=1360164246] i think the better statement would be its not the same nederland. [/quote] I agree 100%...Nederland is not the same either, thanks to the leader of that program, BUT...The fact that Ozen no longer has the same championship swagger is more apparent...it's not an EMBARRASSING loss, but it's just not the same. You think PA Lincoln would EVER lose to Nederland? It just was not happening. That's how that program was built, and although it was not the same in the end, they still beat who they were EXPECTED to beat. I mean close games with PNG?? That's not suppose to happen at Ozen, but it's just not the same Ozen. [/quote]Not suppose to happen, why DV? Give us ONE reason why you believe the way you do.

[quote name="Dick Vitale" post="1370574" timestamp="1360161772"] [quote author=Stevenash link=topic=108974.msg1370524#msg1370524 date=1360152575] Where are you Dickie V? [/quote] I am in Amarillo, at the hotel, preparing for tonight's road conference contest at West Texas A&M... ;)......I saw the outcome of the Ozen/Nederland game and am not really that surprised. Coach English is an outstanding coach. It's just not the same Ozen though... 8) [/quote][quote author=Dick Vitale link=topic=108974.msg1370574#msg1370574 date=1360161772] [quote author=Stevenash link=topic=108974.msg1370524#msg1370524 date=1360152575] Where are you Dickie V? [/quote] I am in Amarillo, at the hotel, preparing for tonight's road conference contest at West Texas A&M... ;)......I saw the outcome of the Ozen/Nederland game and am not really that surprised. Coach English is an outstanding coach. It's just not the same Ozen though... 8) [/quote]Seriously DV, Not the same Ozen? ??? You mean the state ranked Ozen who beat the #8 team in the state two weeks ago? Or the Ozen who barely lost to small college Yates by 3 in late November? Oh, but I'm sure Yates is not the same Yates this year either since they just squeaked by the lowly Panthers. ::) Maybe, just maybe Houston/SETX area teams (and players) are catching up to the Yates of the world. Ok, I'll agree on part of your statement. You're right, Ozen does not have a 6'10" future NBA player on their team, so they may not be 'the same Ozen'. ::) If you haven't noticed, those type of players don't grow on trees. Sometimes it's ok to give credit where credit is due instead of always finding an excuse. 8)

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