Honest Abe

And that's the final score! 52-49 Titans over NS Mustangs!

PAM 52 North Shore 49 :25.9 remaining in 4th Go Titans!

After 3: North Shore 39 Memorial 33

Half: Ned 27 LCM 13

[quote name="Brubaker" post="1367780" timestamp="1359471299"] Folks are on here talking about what's best for the kids, why wouldn't what a kid is seeing/feeling/hearing/experiencing be what's most relevant? [/quote]Maybe I missed it, but I didn't see where anyone dismissed what you suggested. IMO, It's not right when a kid cannot participate in a sport at 100% bc his other sport is in off-season training. In addition, when other schools allow their student-athletes to move their athletic class from one sport to the next, (but other schools (like Nederland) do not allow that)),it affects all kids in that other sport. Also, when one school has two coaches in a sport, yet other schools have 4/5 coaches, that also is not fair to the kids in the program or the program itself. My kid currently plays two sports very well. He is not sure of which one he wants to pursue when he reaches HS. He would like to do both, but he may not have that choice. Is that fair to him?

[quote name="scapegoat" post="1367527" timestamp="1359397034"] Both sides have faults.Problem is not one sided  [/quote]How can both programs be at fault when only one person makes all of the decisions?

[quote name="scapegoat" post="1367380" timestamp="1359309422"] IMO the problem is Basketball coach and Football coach do not get along.The multi-sport kids suffer for it.*Can't We Just All Get Along" [/quote]Yep, the kids are the one's who suffer bc of some who :-X Not gonna open up that box of worms again. I think MOST people in Nederland know this story.

Even WITH a shot clock, NIU scored 4 points (1FG) last night Vs. Eastern Michigan an only 8 FG the entire game. Ouch!! Just shows a shot clock does NOT mean a higher scoring game...

[quote name="BLUEDOVE3" post="1367352" timestamp="1359301950"] [quote author=Honest Abe link=topic=108684.msg1367348#msg1367348 date=1359299173] Both sides make valid points, and I'm not sure which side I lean towards. I see the need to speed up the game. I also understand allowing high school coaches to use more strategy in order to win games. I guess Plump (real guy from Hoosiers) doesn't get out much bc he believes recruiting doesn't happen at the high school level! ;D [/quote] Definitely some good points on both sides. The most interesting point that struck me and I've never given it a thought at the high school level are the ticket sales /fan support and high scoring games. [/quote]I'm not convinced that is the reason for low attendance, bc I have never heard anyone complain about that, u? I notice a larger turnout when the game means more (PNG, Central, Ozen). We have a great turnout for most home games, but there is definitely a spike in attendance when we play more competitive teams. But that is the same with all sports in all towns. I don't think a shot clock is NEEDED in HS Bball, but I would not oppose it, if one is implemented into the game. Should be at least 35 secs.

Both sides make valid points, and I'm not sure which side I lean towards. I see the need to speed up the game. I also understand allowing high school coaches to use more strategy in order to win games. I guess Plump (real guy from Hoosiers) doesn't get out much bc he believes recruiting doesn't happen at the high school level! ;D

[quote name="AggiesAreWe" post="1367230" timestamp="1359234947"] [quote author=Honest Abe link=topic=108406.msg1367224#msg1367224 date=1359233646] [quote author=AggiesAreWe link=topic=108406.msg1367183#msg1367183 date=1359224639] Silsbee's top two scores in Chris Elam and Jordan Holmes were football stars on the field. Also Silsbee All-State QB Patrick Reed is 3rd leading scorer and leading rebounder for Silsbee. [/quote]Just curious: do those kids you mention play basketball in the spring and summer? Also, do they lift weights during their football period on basketball game days? [/quote] They play summer ball but also play 7 on 7. Those players are in basketball class during basketball season. [/quote]There lies the difference. Those kids you mentioned play basketball in the Spring/Summer, so they are good at both sports. Cant expect to star in both sports if you're not gifted AND work in the off season. Nice luxury to have your kids in a basketball class during the season. Our kids at Nederland do not have that option. :-X

[quote name="AggiesAreWe" post="1367183" timestamp="1359224639"] Silsbee's top two scores in Chris Elam and Jordan Holmes were football stars on the field. Also Silsbee All-State QB Patrick Reed is 3rd leading scorer and leading rebounder for Silsbee. [/quote]Just curious: do those kids you mention play basketball in the spring and summer? Also, do they lift weights during their football period on basketball game days?

[quote name="Dick Vitale" post="1367219" timestamp="1359232617"] [quote author=AggiesAreWe link=topic=108668.msg1367214#msg1367214 date=1359232096] If the likes of Roy Williams and Larry Brown want these guys on their teams, then I'll take their opinions over anyone on this messageboard.  ;) Don't think these coaches recruit "softies". ::) [/quote] Come on man, don't get "star struck" on me...They heard about these kids and it's their JOB to check them out...They will come to the Houston area ANYWAY because of the talent pool alone...and if these kids are being Both coaches returned the following day to watch Jackson play. Apparently, he like what he saw. I believe he offered Jackson a scholarship, no?

[quote name="NDOMAKONG" post="1367209" timestamp="1359231339"] [quote author=Honest Abe link=topic=108406.msg1367189#msg1367189 date=1359227034] Those kids you mentioned are 'pure athletes'. We are talking about kids in Nederland. Apples n oranges AAW. [/quote] Shaw is not a pure athlete?  Just trying to follow the logic, I'm slow like that. [/quote]Does Shaw start or 'star' on the basketball team as he did on the FB team? No. He contributes as does Kimler. Plus, Shaw hasn't played basketball (organized) in 2/3 years. Nobody expects him to be a key player on the team. Had he stuck to playing basketball over the past 2 years, he would likely attribute much more, bc he is very athletic. Same can be said about the Woods kid. Wish he would have stuck to Bball. Although he's not that tall, he was a good scorer on the block bc of his size, quickness, and athletic ability.

[quote name="NDOMAKONG" post="1367206" timestamp="1359231063"] Isn't the Kelvin Smith analogy a bit of an exception also?  One of.the best players the program ever had. [/quote]He was one of the best kids the program ever had, true. But did you happen to see him play as a Sophomore? He could barely catch the ball and/or dribble. If he had not put in the hours of work, he would NEVER had been the MVP of the district his senior year. If he had played a second sport, I suspect he would have not been more than a role player for the team. The fact is, he was not athletic enough to play other sports. His HARD WORK led him to be the great basketball player he became.

[quote name="Dick Vitale" post="1367201" timestamp="1359230632"] I love how you guys bring up HIGHLIGHT REELS to prove your point... ::) ::)..I evaluate and watch FULL GAMES...You know what...Nevermind, its above some of you guys understanding as fans...my bad. [/quote]So you are telling us that in your experience as a recruiter, you have never evaluated a kid who exceeded your expectations? ??? You have never observed a kid who you thought was 'not all that', yet went on to be a stud somewhere? Happens all the time. Come on DV, stop talking like you are the ONLY person who knows talent when you see it! ::)

[quote name="Dick Vitale" post="1367198" timestamp="1359230214"] [quote author=Honest Abe link=topic=108668.msg1367195#msg1367195 date=1359229505] [quote author=jb link=topic=108668.msg1367193#msg1367193 date=1359227693] Here are some condensed highlights from the game. [Hidden Content] Not sure about soft..He has definitely played up with his summer and international play..Honestly, he impressed me more than the Harrison twins. [/quote]So he IS the kid who was the MVP of  the tourney the US Jr Natl team, yet some think he is too 'soft'? ::) Funny, bc when I talk to his AAU coach, he tells me that Winslow is legit. Hmmm?? Who to believe?? ::) [/quote] Lets see AAU coach.....College coach who evaluates and recruits for a LIVING....I'm not sure... ::) ::)..Are you kidding me? :o [/quote]Apparently you don't know his AAU coach, bc he makes a living doing it. So, maybe do your research on who his AAU coach is before you make a statement like that! ::) Are YOU kidding ME? 8)

[quote name="jb" post="1367193" timestamp="1359227693"] Here are some condensed highlights from the game. [Hidden Content] Not sure about soft..He has definitely played up with his summer and international play..Honestly, he impressed me more than the Harrison twins. [/quote]So he IS the kid who was the MVP of  the tourney the US Jr Natl team, yet some think he is too 'soft'? ::) Funny, bc when I talk to his AAU coach, he tells me that Winslow is legit. Hmmm?? Who to believe?? ::)

Plus it is an exception (ie Doty, Holmes, Green) as it is to 'the rule'. 8) These kids probably picked up a basketball more than once/month between March and November.

Those kids you mentioned are 'pure athletes'. We are talking about kids in Nederland. Apples n oranges AAW. And I think there is a difference when it's a bigger school. I'm sure it happens in the 1A, 2A, & 3A ranks more frequently than 4A, and especially 5A.

Isn't Winslow the kid who played on the Jr US national team this summer and was named tourney MVP?

[quote name="BLUEDOVE3" post="1367161" timestamp="1359218942"] Go Nederland  ;D [/quote]So glad you are a fan of the program, we appreciate your support! ;) ;D

Also, IF Ozen had lost to Central Thursday, then beaten Vidor by only 10 (as they did last night), we would have to ask 'what is wrong with Ozen'? ;)

[quote name="BLUEDOVE3" post="1367153" timestamp="1359216067"] If Central & Lumberton game had been a 10-15 point difference, we'd be on here saying whats wrong with Central. Central was SUPPOSE to blow away Lumberton. Good job Central. [/quote];D ;D ;D

[quote name="NHS83LU87" post="1366952" timestamp="1359166981"] Just to clarify what qualifies as better multisport athletes?  I don't recall there ever being a lot of multisport athletes involved with Nederland basketball ever.  If it involves football, Nederland only had Forney that played football during Coach E.'s 3rd-6th years at Nederland and no one the first 2 years.  Chris Cunningham decided to play football his senior year so he was a basketball player who went and benefitted football and then came back to basketball.  He had Jordan, Josh Dean, and Jacob Pitts that played basketball and baseball during his first five years at Nederland.  Prior to Coach E. there were no multisport athletes playing basketball.  That issue is irrelevant and isn't indicative of Coach E but maybe how many athletes are discouraged by other coaches/parents not to play basketball due to it's conflict with the sport(s) they are most concerned with....I do agree Coach E's teams are more finesse and need to be more physical but that is a difference of philosophies.  It's unfortunate but typical for Nederland football loyalist to put down the athleticism of non-football playing athletes.  The truth is several players were repeatedly asked to play football which would indicate they were and are good athletes not lesser athlete because they choose to focus on one or two non-football sports.  I could be wrong but only 5 multisport athletes out of 7 seasons doesn't sound like a lot to me. This year I think Ozen and Central are better talent wise but Nederland still has the better coach with enough talent to win if they execute on any night.  I felt it would be a three way race and have not been disappointed.  Nederland can still finish anywhere from first to third and should be proud wherever they place in the top 3.  Now days, with 4 teams making the playoffs, it is not about winning district but making the playoffs and going as deep as possible.  I learned that from Nederland football;) [/quote][quote author=NHS83LU87 link=topic=108406.msg1366952#msg1366952 date=1359166981] Just to clarify what qualifies as better multisport athletes?  I don't recall there ever being a lot of multisport athletes involved with Nederland basketball ever.  If it involves football, Nederland only had Forney that played football during Coach E.'s 3rd-6th years at Nederland and no one the first 2 years.  Chris Cunningham decided to play football his senior year so he was a basketball player who went and benefitted football and then came back to basketball.  He had Jordan, Josh Dean, and Jacob Pitts that played basketball and baseball during his first five years at Nederland.  Prior to Coach E. there were no multisport athletes playing basketball.  That issue is irrelevant and isn't indicative of Coach E but maybe how many athletes are discouraged by other coaches/parents not to play basketball due to it's conflict with the sport(s) they are most concerned with....I do agree Coach E's teams are more finesse and need to be more physical but that is a difference of philosophies.  It's unfortunate but typical for Nederland football loyalist to put down the athleticism of non-football playing athletes.  The truth is several players were repeatedly asked to play football which would indicate they were and are good athletes not lesser athlete because they choose to focus on one or two non-football sports.  I could be wrong but only 5 multisport athletes out of 7 seasons doesn't sound like a lot to me. This year I think Ozen and Central are better talent wise but Nederland still has the better coach with enough talent to win if they execute on any night.  I felt it would be a three way race and have not been disappointed.  Nederland can still finish anywhere from first to third and should be proud wherever they place in the top 3.  Now days, with 4 teams making the playoffs, it is not about winning district but making the playoffs and going as deep as possible.  I learned that from Nederland football;) [/quote]Great Points! It's unheard of these days being a 'star' on football and being 'the man' on the basketball court while your team is winning district banners and playoff games. 20 years ago, kids didn't play a single sport year round like they do today. So if basketball is a kid's 2nd sport, he must work extra if he wants to be the man or start. Three years ago, Forney was the district's MVP in basketball as a JR. He was also a FB player. By the time his senior year rolled around, he was the 2nd best player on the bball team bc other kids (Kelvin Smith) played year around basketball and passed him up. Forney was still a great player, but he got passed up by Smith who was able to focus 100% of his time on basketball. Other than Doty (from PNG), I don't know of many kids who can be 'the man' at both sports. PNG finished fourth during Doty's senior year, but think how good they COULD have been had he dedicated all his time to basketball. They likely would NOT have been the 4th Pl team that year, and one and done in the playoffs. Other than that year, PNG has not been to the playoffs in basketball in 15 years or so. 8, 10, 15 years ago, the Ned basketball program was the same way; at the bottom of the district standings. I'm sure there were kids who starred on the football field AND was either the star or was a starter on the hardwood during that time. However, those team's finished district at 2-10, 4-8, 0-12, etc. If a kid plays FB and wants to be a key player in Bball, he has to put in the time and shoot, dribble, etc outside of the bball season. If they don't have the time or dedication to do so, then they cannot expect to be anything more than a role player. Some kids accept that, others cannot. I'm sure it would be difficult to be a star on the FB team, then come off the bench in bball. I'm glad Kimler has stuck with the bball program. He contributes when asked, and I think he is a great asset on the team. Obviously, the Nederland bball program has higher expectations than from years past. The talent level is no different, but many kids are dedicated to the program, and that's a reason the program is now EXPECTED to win. Weisbrod could easily play football and baseball and be very good at all three sports. However, I don't think he would be anywhere near as good in basketball had he chose to play all 3. He would still be a starter, but not nearly as dominating. That is a choice he made. Call us 'Homers' if you want, but when a program has only made one playoff appearance since 1955, and now is going every year AND winning district titles AND going 3/4 games deep in the playoffs, you can label us anything you want. I can remember losing to Beaumont and PA schools every year by 30,40,50 points. Nowadays days, when we lose to those teams by 5 or 10 points, Nederland suddenly 'has a problem'... ::)