Honest Abe

[quote name="FanintheStands" post="1173194" timestamp="1328571412"] [quote author=AggiesAreWe link=topic=95487.msg1173184#msg1173184 date=1328570212] Central Heights has already beaten Kountze twice this season. [/quote] but you know the lions have come alive in recent weeks. they are not the same team that has been bitten twice already. [/quote] Galveston Ball also beat LaMarque twice last year in the regular season. LaMarque won the 3rd matchup to advance to the State Tourney in 4A before losing in the Finals.

[quote name="BMTSoulja1" post="1173161" timestamp="1328566893"] [quote author=NB-Dawg link=topic=95474.msg1173151#msg1173151 date=1328566570] [quote author=stevenash link=topic=95474.msg1173145#msg1173145 date=1328565789] [quote author=BMTSoulja1 link=topic=95474.msg1173124#msg1173124 date=1328564017] Nederland has 1 player that can create his own shot, and he's one of their bigs.  The other player is a perimeter player,  but he cannot create his shot.  He can finish on fast breaks, but in the half court game, he relies on screens and picks and shoots off of them.  The rest of the team are spot up shooters.  One of the starters is neither one as he is on the defensive stoper for the team, but he is also the shortest player on the team. [/quote] You paint the picture as though they have so many liabilities.  If so, how is their record what it is?  Furthermore, I think you are over enamored with "creating your own shot".  THere are a lot more "creators" out there than there are scorers.  When we played your team, I can promise you that one of the largest problems you had was one player trying to "create" too often.  As for the spot up shooters, if they are good ones, they have the ability to remove the defenders from helping out at all.  Didn't Bobby KNight pretty well document the fact that you dont need a lot of one on one expertise to have a good team? [/quote] It's rather comical that some on this board cannot accept Nederland's style of play as being good. Ned loses one game, and suddenly we are just not that good.  ::) Let them continue trying to break down our team, and we'll just continue winning games.  ;) [/quote]No, no, no.  Make no mistake, they're good.  I never denied that at all.  They are #1 inthe district for a reason. They are good at what they do.  All I did was just broke down what I see in this Nederland team.  I'm sure that some of you have broken down my team after seeing them a few times. [/quote] I haven't tried to break down Central, and I've seen y'all play 7-8 times. It seems that every game I've seen has been different than the one before. Some games y'all have looked scary good and other times not so much. There has not been a consistent pattern with Central dueing the games I have seen this year. Sometimes y'all win games with great defense, sometimes shooting well from outside. Sometimes winning on the boards makes a difference. I think Central beats themselves most of the time bc sometimes they try to do too much individualy (not just one player either).

[quote name="longhornmiked" post="1173150" timestamp="1328566551"] [quote author=NB-Dawg link=topic=95532.msg1173147#msg1173147 date=1328565886] [quote author=longhornmiked link=topic=95532.msg1173114#msg1173114 date=1328562315] Joel Lafleur PN-G (89-92) [/quote] I remember LaFleur droppin' 50 a couple of times. [/quote] When Lafleur was a freshman and Straface was a senior, Lafleur had to bring the ball down the court against Lincoln’s full court press because Straface could not handle the ball as well.  Straface was a very good shooter but not the all around player Lafleur was. [/quote] That may be true, but this thread is not about who is a better player than the next guy, it is about who is considered to be clutch players. And I believe they were both clutch players.

[quote name="stevenash" post="1173145" timestamp="1328565789"] [quote author=BMTSoulja1 link=topic=95474.msg1173124#msg1173124 date=1328564017] Nederland has 1 player that can create his own shot, and he's one of their bigs.  The other player is a perimeter player,  but he cannot create his shot.  He can finish on fast breaks, but in the half court game, he relies on screens and picks and shoots off of them.  The rest of the team are spot up shooters.  One of the starters is neither one as he is on the defensive stoper for the team, but he is also the shortest player on the team. [/quote] You paint the picture as though they have so many liabilities.  If so, how is their record what it is?  Furthermore, I think you are over enamored with "creating your own shot".  THere are a lot more "creators" out there than there are scorers.  When we played your team, I can promise you that one of the largest problems you had was one player trying to "create" too often.  As for the spot up shooters, if they are good ones, they have the ability to remove the defenders from helping out at all.  Didn't Bobby KNight pretty well document the fact that you dont need a lot of one on one expertise to have a good team? [/quote] It's rather comical that some on this board cannot accept Nederland's style of play as being good. Ned loses one game, and suddenly we are just not that good.  ::) Let them continue trying to break down our team, and we'll just continue winning games.  ;)

[quote name="longhornmiked" post="1173114" timestamp="1328562315"] Joel Lafleur PN-G (89-92) [/quote] I remember LaFleur droppin' 50 a couple of times.

[quote name="longhornmiked" post="1173114" timestamp="1328562315"] Joel Lafleur PN-G (89-92) [/quote] Bobby Straface PNG (87-89)

[quote name="BLUEDOVE3" post="1173084" timestamp="1328559325"] [quote author=NB-Dawg link=topic=95532.msg1173034#msg1173034 date=1328556803] Jamie Weaver, Nederland. Was a teammate of the Phi Slamma Jamma at U of H. The guy could stroke it better than anyone I've ever seen. [/quote]You are kidding me? J.Weaver was a product of Nederland? mAN, you never too old learn something new. [/quote] Yes. His dad was the head bball coach here for about 10-15 years.

[quote name="FanintheStands" post="1173073" timestamp="1328558370"] [quote author=NB-Dawg link=topic=95487.msg1172797#msg1172797 date=1328542271] I'm pretty sure not many people gave the 'Hoosiers' team in IN much of a chance either, but there is proof that it does happen at the HS level as well. Movie based on a 1954 IN HS team who won the state championship against all odds. [/quote]But the reason it became a movie is that stories like this happen once in a blue moon. [/quote] Yes, and that blue moon occurred a few years ago in a BCS game when Boise State beat the odds and defeated Oklahoma. It happens. We are not expecting it in Nederland (this year) but for someone to say there is NO CHANCE is simply ignorant.

Jamie Weaver, Nederland. Was a teammate of the Phi Slamma Jamma at U of H. The guy could stroke it better than anyone I've ever seen.

[b](-4) PAM[/b] @ West Brook [b](-9) Crosby[/b] @ Goose Creek Mem. [b]Barbers Hill[/b] @ Galena Park (-4) [b](-23) Central[/b] @ Vidor [b](-7) Ozen[/b] @ Livingston [b](-5) LCM[/b] @ PNG Lumberton @ [b]Nederland (-22)[/b] Center @ [b]Jasper (-14)[/b] Hamshire-Fannett @ [b]Silsbee (-26[/b]) [b](-16) Orangefield[/b] @ Bridge City WOS @ [b]Hardin-Jefferson (-21)[/b] (-5) Cleveland @ [b]Huffman[/b] Shepherd @ [b]Tarkington (-6)[/b] [b](-8) Splendora[/b] @ Liberty [b](-9) Central Heights[/b] @ Newton [b](-17) Buna[/b] @ Anahuac Deweyville @ [b]Hardin (-21)[/b] [b](-35) Kountze[/b] @ Warren Hull-Daisetta @ [b]West Hardin (-17)[/b] Sabine Pass @ [b]Big Sandy (-18)[/b]

[quote name="east texas bb" post="1172911" timestamp="1328551392"] Im sorry, I must have been brought up different than some others, but Houston Yates dont scare me or intimidate me at all.  I played against the best Houston had to offer for 5 straight summers and Im from right here in little old East Texas.  Yates is in for more of an awakening than HJ or Silsbee.  This reminds me of when I was growing up, and we would hear of a player from New York or Los Angelos, people would think and even college coaches recruit them on this basis, but when it gets right down to it, they are no different than me and you.  A friend of mine that played for the Detroit Pistons, told me I would see this and he was absolutly correct. [/quote] Preach On East TX bball! Some try intimidation techniques to demoralize others. It gets real old on this board when people talk about teams that they have never seen play. I don't think Boise State approached their BCS game against Oklahoma a few years ago when they were clearly the underdog, yet beat all odds and won the game. They were not afraid of their NAME only!

[quote name="Silsbeealum14" post="1172937" timestamp="1328552383"] You trying to be funny but be Realistic Idiot !!!! :-X [/quote] Idiot? Realistic? First of all...never mind, not going to waste my time on someone like yourself.  8)

[quote name="Silsbeealum14" post="1172899" timestamp="1328550799"] Don't forget that Nederland has to go through Houston Yates to make it 2 State !!!! Just Saying [/quote] Really?? Well hello Captain Obvious!  :P

[quote name="pete092775" post="1172912" timestamp="1328551417"] well would have thought after everyone was so confident that nederland can adjust to anything they would have but didnt. Guess there coach was asleep this time. If you cant score from the outside id say you better adjust or just give up and get beat by a team that you had already blown out.Great coaching there. ;) [/quote] You've obviously never coached a team!  ;)

[quote name="east texas bb" post="1172896" timestamp="1328550720"] I know this changes the subject a little, but could someone describe the Basketball program at Nederland before Coach English, lets say the 10 years before he got there.  I do research on programs that have built themselves from the bottom up, and the outward appearance at Nederland is that.  Was Nederald very successful at anything?  What was the emphasis sport for Nederland?  Just curious. [/quote] For the past 10 years prior to Coach E, Ned was at the bottom in basketball. The emphasis sport in Nederland has been, and always will be football. Ned FB just won a district title this past season, which was their 1st in 45+ years. However, Ned FB makes the playoffs MOST years. I believe Ned FB reached the Qurter Finals one year (late 90s/early 2000s). Ned has also done very well in baseball (2nd sport of emphasis). Ned has won Regionals a couple of times, but fell short of a state title. Over the past 10 years, probably 5-6 district titles (maybe more). Even soccer has been more popular in Nederland until Basketball became relevant a few years ago. Ned won their district in soccer 18 years straight and 20/21 yers (Hey DV-When Ozen has that kind of a streak, call me  ;) )Usually only win 2-3 playoff games though. I believe one year they may have gone a bit further??

[quote name="east texas bb" post="1172881" timestamp="1328549198"] Shooting 22 percent is tough to overcome and normally a loss will result.  Everyone has games like that, you just have to either hope it is against a very weak opponent or not at a critical time in the season, such as the playoffs.  Nederland sounds like they had an off night, believe me, for anyone that has played basketball, can understand this happening on occasion. I remember my Junior year, we were loaded, class 2A, ranked 1 all year, clearly had the best team in the state, could have argued the best in 3A, started 6'7" Jamie Kendrick (Baylor), Drew Henson 6'5" (pithed in college), Josh Jones 6'2" (ETBU DII), Clint Cover 6'2" (dang good shooter), Andre Austin 5'9 (played college football).  We had beat 4A and 5A teams all year, Region Quarter beat Paris 104-44, and the next game in Region Semi's we didnt shoot the ball as well as possible but not terrible, but they shot [b]72 percent from the floor and 31-32 from the FT[/b] line, and we was still in the game.  If we would have played them 10 more times we would have won them all, but that is HS basketball, the next day they lost to EC, whom no one thought would go to Austin. My point is the nature of HS basketball, or basketball period when it is a one and done scenerio. A team can get hot, or another can have an off night.  Nederland shouldnt feel humiliated, they should feel fortunate that their off game was only a district game and wont effect them making the playoffs. [/quote] That's unheard of! Very good points you made as well. Nederland will bounce back Friday night and play well. Ozen may play better, but I just can't see Ned shooting 22% from the field again this season. As far as the playoffs go, any one between Ozen, Ned, and Central could find their way to the regional tourney this year. Need to focus on starting another streak tomorrow night against Lumberton!

[quote name="rc2182" post="1172831" timestamp="1328545436"] Agreed, but I will go as far to say ,which ever team comes out as the district leader next year will make a deep run in the playoffs based on the talent level coming up from all three teams Ned.,Ozen, Central .Hate looking past this year but our district is not very strong compared to others ,however it is fun and competive to watch locally. [/quote] I think all 3 team's will make a lot more noise next year as well. I am with you though, I am more interested today in talking about this year. On your other statement about this district being 'down', others are as well. 19-4A isn't anything special, and neither is district (17) with Brenham/Magnolia, Mag West/Stratford. District 20-4A plays 19-4A in round one, then will play either 17 or 18 4A in round 2. Both of those rounds are very 'winnable' for Ned, Central, and Ozen. All you need is 3 wins for a trip to Regionals, in which the 20-4A champ and 4th place (Likely LCM) has to go through Humble to accomplish that feat. The runner up and 3rd place winner has to go through KW Park, Stratford, Magnolia, or Crosby. None of these team's are considered 'Powerhouses'. Yates, Manvel, Pearland Dawson, Terry, Lamar Consolidated, and Wheatley are all in a different bracket, and will beat up on one another to reach the Regional tourney.

[quote name="pete092775" post="1172847" timestamp="1328546683"] Ya two years is a good streak but after that blow out by central. Ozen realized the weak links in Nederland and plan on showing the rest of the district just how bad nederland can be beat. And I do stand corrected I was advised that it isnt point difference that they will play to break the three way tie. Not only once will central an ozen blow out nederland but get to humilate them again in those games too. 8) [/quote] Pretty confident there Pete!  ;) Don't think Ned was humiliated Friday night though. Maybe frustrated at how poorly we shot as a team, but not humiliated. Remember, Nederland usually doesn't shoot below 30% (and never 22%) from the field. If Ned had shot 30% from the field on Friday night, the game would have either been tied in the middle of the 4th or Ned would have been leading by 2-3 points (depending if they were 2s or 3s). I'm not one to live in what COULD have happened IF......, but as poorly as Ned played, the game was still within reach with 4 minutes remaining. Don't see how you claim that was humiliating?? Was Central HUMILIATED three weeks ago when Ned beat them by 17? I don't think so. They too were probably FRUSTRATED bc they could not buy a bucket.

[quote name="stevenash" post="1172828" timestamp="1328545117"] [quote author=BMTSoulja1 link=topic=95474.msg1172826#msg1172826 date=1328545044] I sat next to the Ozen Coaches/scouts that were watching Nederland.  Let's just say that the things that I saw that we did good as far as beating Nederland, they saw way more than I saw and they will be ready.  Now the Scouts had a game plan.  Now if the coach will actually follow through is another thing. [/quote] Game plans are great but they still must be executed by the players.  The coaches can only do so much. [/quote] I agree. Central was not the first team this year to use that approach. Hightower, North Shore, LCM, PNG, and Ozen all played either a box-in-one or triangle-in-two. Nederland shot well from the outside against most of those teams and won. Nederland did not shoot well Friday night, hence the lopsided defeat. I predict that Lubera will have a big game Friday against Ozen.

[quote name="rc2182" post="1172811" timestamp="1328543469"] Guys ,you are going to eventually have to accept the idea Nederland is good ,but barring a miricle ,no chance for state ,no time soon ,it's a long road to get there for even the very best of teams .With that being said be proud of the accomplishments and strides they have made ,but state with the team they have now, no way. [/quote] I hear ya rc. I don't think anyone is predicting (or expects) this team to win it all this year. We are just enjoying the ride, and it's exciting to see how far they can go. Next year, however, expectations will be a bit higher, and I will be singing a different tune.

[quote name="BLUEDOVE3" post="1172802" timestamp="1328542575"] [quote author=NB-Dawg link=topic=95487.msg1172797#msg1172797 date=1328542271] I'm pretty sure not many people gave the 'Hoosiers' team in IN much of a chance either, but there is proof that it does happen at the HS level as well. Movie based on a 1954 IN HS team who won the state championship against all odds. [/quote]2012-1954= 58 years. Yep, its long overdue for a Hoosier miracle to happen for Nederland  ::) [/quote] I hear ya. Just mentioning examples in which everyone can relate. I'm sure it's happened many times since then. It was such a big deal then bc it would be like Evadale (who has a very good program) beating FM Marcus this year. Back then, they didn't have different classifications which made it  such a big accomplishment.

I'm pretty sure not many people gave the 'Hoosiers' team in IN much of a chance either, but there is proof that it does happen at the HS level as well. Movie based on a 1954 IN HS team who won the state championship against all odds.

[quote name="stevenash" post="1172744" timestamp="1328537925"] [quote author=NB-Dawg link=topic=95487.msg1172740#msg1172740 date=1328537576] Not many experts picked the #6 seed in the Western Conference to win the NBA title in 1994 but The Rockets proved (just about) everyone wrong! [/quote] If my understanding is correct, the Giants had to beat the Cowboys in the last game just to get into the playoffs and then they won the Superbowl? [/quote] That is correct.

Not many experts picked the #6 seed in the Western Conference to win the NBA title in 1994 but The Rockets proved (just about) everyone wrong!

[quote name="Dick Vitale" post="1172719" timestamp="1328534744"] [quote author=vp32 link=topic=95487.msg1172710#msg1172710 date=1328534100] [quote author=Dick Vitale link=topic=95487.msg1172707#msg1172707 date=1328533931] Vp, would you put money on those long odds? Didn't think so! You just get your signature line ready after this week!  8) [/quote] Does it matter if i would put money on it Dickie? No it doesn't. The topic of the thread clearly reads chances for state and i am simply arguing that Nederland has a chance. [/quote] OK, and I am saying that the odds are slim to none....closer to none! ;) [/quote] To quote one of my favorite movies: "Yes! So you're saying there is a chance!". (Lloyd Christmas)