Jump to content

Honest Abe

Members
  • Posts

    5,414
  • Joined

  • Last visited

  • Days Won

    1

Everything posted by Honest Abe

  1. [quote name="Dick Vitale" post="1166206" timestamp="1327589145"] [quote author=NB-Dawg link=topic=94873.msg1166197#msg1166197 date=1327588436] [quote author=Dick Vitale link=topic=94873.msg1166168#msg1166168 date=1327585722] [quote author=stevenash link=topic=94873.msg1166129#msg1166129 date=1327577200] Dickie- Are you saying then that Mr. English, if placed in the exact circumstances that Boutte was in during his career, could not have produced similar results?  If so, then you are also suggesting that Boutte, if placed in Mr. English's circumstances, could have produced better results than what Mr. English achieved.  I say there is no way you could prove either.  I am pretty confident that if Tom Izzo, Coach K, Roy Williams and Bill Self all trade coaching jobs, each respective program would continue to flourish. [/quote] You are correct, we will never know the answer to those questions. I DO know that there is a VERY short list of coaches that could do what Brian English has done at Vidor, and Nederland, and an even SHORTER list that could duplicate what Boutte has done. Stevenash, the ONLY difference between Coach K and a lot of others was the fact that he took a bottom feeder program and built a powerhouse program, WHILE WINNING TITLES....No one as close as HOUSTON knew anything about Ozen prior to the 2000 school year, and a year later we were 36-0, Class 4A State Champions.  How can people continue to downplay THAT? These are the FACTS.  Coach K is an incredible coach, and Duke is the standard because of continued success on the court by winning TITLES.  Syracuse was always a respected program, but until they won a title in 2003, they were not really considered to be ELITE. Ozen was an ELITE program when Boutte was there...not so much now...Nederland has the best coach on the sideline every contest in 20-4A now, by far...Nederland is not an ELITE program...They are very good, and yes building takes time...But [b]one coach took a new program in year THREE to the region 3 tournament,[/b] and the next year was nationally ranked and went undefeated winning a state title, and in the next 5 years played in 3 more state championship games...How is THAT not the standard of excellence in SE Texas? Because people feel we had "talent"? Thats not fair...we had an NBA bound player, yes we did...and THREE Division 1 players in 10 years...TALENT? I say an ELITE PROGRAM was built....once again, how is that NOT the standard in SE Texas? [/quote] Interesting! Didn't Coach E take Nederland to the Regional Tourney in year 4 after taking over the worst team in 20-4A for 4-5 years? Now he has lost that entire team, which had 0 NBA players on it BTW, and they haven't missed a beat this year. Ned has a very young team, and COULD make it back to the Region 3 Tourney this year. With 4 returning starters next year, it could be the year Ned earns a trip to Austin! I guess that will be a good gauge for this conversation. I was taught that when you dream, dream big! And it's obvious that Coach E feels the same... [/quote] OK..its obvious you're missing me all the way around here....I NEVER SAID WHAT COACH E WAS DOING WAS NOT GREAT....He is definitely getting it done...NO QUESTION.  I AM saying, however....In Year FOUR, Boutte went 36-0 winning a state title...Perk was DEVELOPED into an NBA talent, he did not come to us that way. Yes Coach E went to the regional tourney in year 4 after taking over [color=red]that program[/color]...[color=green]OZEN DID NOT EXIST[/color], AND WENT TO AUSTIN AND WON IT IN YEAR 4...How are you missing THAT point? [/quote] I got your point, DV. But remember what this topic is about; would Ned still have a 27 game district winning streak, and all fingers, IMO, point to YES! [color=red]What program?[/color] [color=green]But the talent existed, right?[/color]
  2. [quote name="Dick Vitale" post="1166097" timestamp="1327552587"] [quote author=5 on 5 link=topic=94873.msg1166096#msg1166096 date=1327552339] [quote author=Dick Vitale link=topic=94873.msg1166093#msg1166093 date=1327551708] [quote author=NB-Dawg link=topic=94873.msg1166089#msg1166089 date=1327550906] Sorry i'm just getting back to you, but yes I do believe we would still be sitting on a 27 game district winning streak. Is it possible that it would be different with a Boutte-lead team? Sure. The reason being is that Coach English's team at Vidor defeated Boutte's Ozen Panthers 3 times in one season. Let me repeat that again, AT VIDOR! As y'all mentioned, it may be different if there was a Perkins, Jackson, or BJ Tyler on a team. But there hasn't been those types of players in 20-4A in the past 3 years that this streak has been going. Boutte's talent (that year I mentioned) was comparable to what has been available in Beaumont the past few years. So yes, I believe nothing would be different. [/quote] [b]Vidor had a SENIOR team that year, and some real studs[/b]...Ozen had one senior on that team that they beat in 2004 which was the year after Perk entered the NBA and Ozen was considered "down" They were STILL DISTRICT CHAMPIONS with an overall record of 29-7...Lost in the regional tournament that year to eventual champion Houston Jones led by Daniel Gibson...Vidor lost in the second round that year, but THEY BEAT OZEN THREE TIMES, right? You wanna count the record head to head? Like 22-3! Come on man, be honest...I KNOW you don't think they would have a choke hold on 20-4A like this with him there! Not even CLOSE...again, they would still be very good, but a 27 game district streak? NO...Try that one again, NB-Dawg!! 8) I don't remember any "real studs". What I remember is that team winning with discipline and fundamentals. Things coach E is excellent instilling in his players. [/quote] [/quote] Jake McWilliams was a STUD! 6'8 inside out monster that was DOMINANT...George Williamson (committed to BYU) was legit as well...They were very good! and were SENIORS...and WELL COACHED...They did what they were supposed to do! BUT....Ozen won the district title that year and advanced further in the playoffs making the regional tourney in a "down year" finishing 29-7...which would YOU rather have?..... ::) ::) [/quote] Anyone would rather go deeper in the playoffs, no doubt. But playoffs are all about match ups, right? Vidor ran into a team who they didn't match up very well against, and still almost won. The fact remains that Vidor won all 3 meetings against Ozen that year, end of story.
  3. When did I disagree with you? All I did was state [b]facts[/b] about what you said earlier, which was wrong about the classifications of the Vidor players. You have an [b]opinion[/b] on who is more talented, and I respectfully disagree. [quote name="Dick Vitale" post="1166191" timestamp="1327588142"] [quote author=speechless link=topic=94873.msg1166188#msg1166188 date=1327587485] [quote]the ONLY difference between Coach K and a lot of others was the fact that he took a bottom feeder program and built a powerhouse program, WHILE WINNING TITLES.[/quote] Coach K took over Duke in 1980 Duke had been to the Final Four just two years prior in 1978 and 3 times prior to that year....hardly a bottom feeder [/quote] They were when Coach K arrived...Buna was good back in the day too...are they considered great still today in your estimation? [quote author=speechless link=topic=94873.msg1166190#msg1166190 date=1327587637] [quote]..How did Hardin Jefferson do from Brietaupt to Sutherland? THEY DID NOT MISS A BEAT...Todd is the reason for that...Do you consider HJ to be a "basketball factory"?[/quote] HJ had four other head coaches between Breithaupt and Sutherland.  None of those coaches had anything to do with it? [/quote] You missed my point attempting to find holes...please re-read my statement and the ones leading up to it..HJ was just an example. [quote author=NB-Dawg link=topic=94873.msg1166189#msg1166189 date=1327587626] Again, DV, re-read my last point. I said, regardless of what you believe...I am not agreeing or disagreeing with you. I simply corrected some false statements that you made about that Vidor team in an objective manner. You can subjectively state your opinion on who was more talented. Take a poll about Vidor having more basketball talent than Ozen, and I think we know the results. Again, what happened to all that 'talent' Vidor had? Are they currently in a 'down' year/period? Boutte had a great system, just like English does. To claim that Boutte's system was better is asinine, bc we are comparing apples to oranges. [/quote] The proof is in the numbers, man..I never said his SYSTEM was better, I said his body of work was not comaparable to his AT THIS POINT...I have also ACKNOWLEDGED that Brian built Vidor to what it was..no question about it..Whats the argument about? I have agreed with you on several points...Just check the numbers...Thats all I ask. [/quote]
  4. [quote name="Dick Vitale" post="1166168" timestamp="1327585722"] [quote author=stevenash link=topic=94873.msg1166129#msg1166129 date=1327577200] Dickie- Are you saying then that Mr. English, if placed in the exact circumstances that Boutte was in during his career, could not have produced similar results?  If so, then you are also suggesting that Boutte, if placed in Mr. English's circumstances, could have produced better results than what Mr. English achieved.  I say there is no way you could prove either.  I am pretty confident that if Tom Izzo, Coach K, Roy Williams and Bill Self all trade coaching jobs, each respective program would continue to flourish. [/quote] You are correct, we will never know the answer to those questions. I DO know that there is a VERY short list of coaches that could do what Brian English has done at Vidor, and Nederland, and an even SHORTER list that could duplicate what Boutte has done. Stevenash, the ONLY difference between Coach K and a lot of others was the fact that he took a bottom feeder program and built a powerhouse program, WHILE WINNING TITLES....No one as close as HOUSTON knew anything about Ozen prior to the 2000 school year, and a year later we were 36-0, Class 4A State Champions.  How can people continue to downplay THAT? These are the FACTS.  Coach K is an incredible coach, and Duke is the standard because of continued success on the court by winning TITLES.  Syracuse was always a respected program, but until they won a title in 2003, they were not really considered to be ELITE. Ozen was an ELITE program when Boutte was there...not so much now...Nederland has the best coach on the sideline every contest in 20-4A now, by far...Nederland is not an ELITE program...They are very good, and yes building takes time...But [b]one coach took a new program in year THREE to the region 3 tournament,[/b] and the next year was nationally ranked and went undefeated winning a state title, and in the next 5 years played in 3 more state championship games...How is THAT not the standard of excellence in SE Texas? Because people feel we had "talent"? Thats not fair...we had an NBA bound player, yes we did...and THREE Division 1 players in 10 years...TALENT? I say an ELITE PROGRAM was built....once again, how is that NOT the standard in SE Texas? [/quote] Interesting! Didn't Coach E take Nederland to the Regional Tourney in year 4 after taking over the worst team in 20-4A for 4-5 years? Now he has lost that entire team, which had 0 NBA players on it BTW, and they haven't missed a beat this year. Ned has a very young team, and COULD make it back to the Region 3 Tourney this year. With 4 returning starters next year, it could be the year Ned earns a trip to Austin! I guess that will be a good gauge for this conversation. I was taught that when you dream, dream big! And it's obvious that Coach E feels the same...
  5. Again, DV, re-read my last point. I said, regardless of what you believe...I am not agreeing or disagreeing with you. I simply corrected some false statements that you made about that Vidor team in an objective manner. You can subjectively state your opinion on who was more talented. Take a poll about Vidor having more basketball talent than Ozen, and I think we know the results. Again, what happened to all that 'talent' Vidor had? Are they currently in a 'down' year/period? Boutte had a great system, just like English does. To claim that Boutte's system was better is asinine, bc we are comparing apples to oranges.
  6. I can guarantee coach English coaches it. Earlier in the year, Ned was not a good rebounding TEAM. A big reason WB beat Ned was bc of not blocking out properly. Since then, Ned has done a great job and controlling the boards. Like Dickie V said, depends on where you are coached.
  7. Regardless of what you believe in this hypothetical, there is one fact that needs to be corrected, and I said this before. Coach English has NEVER coached a player who went on to play at the D1 level. So to say that his Vidor team was more 'talented' is plain silly. Another fact that needs to be known, is that George was a Junior that year, and Noah was the PG who was a Sophomore. So the team was not loaded with Senior talent as earlier stated. So Vidor started 3 Seniors, 1 JR, and 1 Soph that year.
  8. [quote name="Dick Vitale" post="1166093" timestamp="1327551708"] [quote author=NB-Dawg link=topic=94873.msg1166089#msg1166089 date=1327550906] Sorry i'm just getting back to you, but yes I do believe we would still be sitting on a 27 game district winning streak. Is it possible that it would be different with a Boutte-lead team? Sure. The reason being is that Coach English's team at Vidor defeated Boutte's Ozen Panthers 3 times in one season. Let me repeat that again, AT VIDOR! As y'all mentioned, it may be different if there was a Perkins, Jackson, or BJ Tyler on a team. But there hasn't been those types of players in 20-4A in the past 3 years that this streak has been going. Boutte's talent (that year I mentioned) was comparable to what has been available in Beaumont the past few years. So yes, I believe nothing would be different. [/quote] Vidor had a SENIOR team that year, and some real studs...Ozen had one senior on that team that they beat in 2004 which was the year after Perk entered the NBA and Ozen was considered "down" They were STILL DISTRICT CHAMPIONS with an overall record of 29-7...Lost in the regional tournament that year to eventual champion Houston Jones led by Daniel Gibson...Vidor lost in the second round that year, but THEY BEAT OZEN THREE TIMES, right? You wanna count the record head to head? Like 22-3! Come on man, be honest...I KNOW you don't think they would have a choke hold on 20-4A like this with him there! Not even CLOSE...again, they would still be very good, but a 27 game district streak? NO...Try that one again, NB-Dawg!! 8) [/quote] We all have our opinions Dickie V, and I gave you mine. Coach E grew the Vidor program from a 50 + year bottom dweller to a playoff team, and beat the best team in SETX 3 times in one year. They went to the playoffs 3 times during his 6 years there, and they haven't been back since. Nederland was also a bottom dweller every year but two (1987 & 1993) since 1955. Guess what? One of those years, coach English was a player for the Dawgs. It's funny how people commented over the past 2 years that the only reason Ned was any good was bc of PA transfers. Funny, bc when I look at the rosters over the past 8-10 years, there were 2-5 PA transfers every year, yet Ned was still no good. You bring up that the Vidor team was 'stacked' and full of Seniors?! I wonder why they were 'stacked'? Did the talent suddenly dissolve after English left? No! Bc it was never there! He developed the kids into 'talent'. Your second excuse is that team was full of Seniors. Is that the case this year for Nederland? NO! Ned has one senior who plays. Coach E has yet to coach a D1 player, yet he finds a way for his team's to win. He's proven he can beat Boutte even with a less talented team, so why should I believe that the streak would be broken if Boutte were still coaching at Ozen?
  9. Sorry i'm just getting back to you, but yes I do believe we would still be sitting on a 27 game district winning streak. Is it possible that it would be different with a Boutte-lead team? Sure. The reason being is that Coach English's team at Vidor defeated Boutte's Ozen Panthers 3 times in one season. Let me repeat that again, AT VIDOR! As y'all mentioned, it may be different if there was a Perkins, Jackson, or BJ Tyler on a team. But there hasn't been those types of players in 20-4A in the past 3 years that this streak has been going. Boutte's talent (that year I mentioned) was comparable to what has been available in Beaumont the past few years. So yes, I believe nothing would be different.
  10. Here is how 19-4A stacks up: (before last night)                                 W   L Crosby                   7   0 Houston C.E. King   6   1 Goose Creek Memorial   4   3 Houston North Forest   4   3 Dayton.                3   4 Galena Park           2   5 Barbers Hill                   2   5 Baytown Lee.                      0.              7
  11. [quote name="FanintheStands" post="1165965" timestamp="1327530696"] [quote author=Diamond-J link=topic=94889.msg1165960#msg1165960 date=1327529836] You may and you might But not LAST NIGHT! As predicted last summer the Broncos completed the District sweep over the eagles last night.............good luck in the "one act play" [/quote]wow… what's with the hatorade? Really poor sportsmanship there, brother. [/quote] I agree, but if you kept up with these two team's on the football thread, it would make more sense. They talk so much noise to each other it's unreal. Now that I think about it, the entire FB forum talks a lot of smack!
  12. Football coaches sit up in the box to get a better view of the entire field, no? I realize it's much bigger, but there is something to be said about being higher than court level. When I watch a game, I don't like to be on court level, because I can't see everything, but I don't want to sit in the 'nose-bleeds' either. About 6-8 rows up is ideal to me. With all of that said, i still believe coaches need to be at court level to communicate better with their players.
  13. A coach can only observe so much. His assistants should provide input. Some schools have those types of assistants, others not so much. Coaches will listen to our thoughts, I know for certain. Sometimes they agree and are greatful when you bring up something with substance, but most of the time they see it differently and provide rationale to their thoughts.
  14. [quote name="Dick Vitale" post="1165848" timestamp="1327517876"] [quote author=NB-Dawg link=topic=94871.msg1165831#msg1165831 date=1327516839] When you're up by 25+ points at the beginning of the 4th Q against a 'weaker team', your starters should not get on the floor the rest of the game. You want to improve your team? Allow the bench players to improve their game. Not every district game is a blow out, so resting your starters in the 4th for 3-4 district games will not hurt you in the playoffs, IMO. If every game was a blow out, then you have a valid point, but that's not the case. Example last night was in the Ned/Vidor game. Ned had a 43 point lead after 3Qs, and the Ned starters sat the entire 4th Q. why would any coach keep the starters in that game is pointless. Allow your bench players to get PT which might help your team down the road. [/quote] If you want your bench to improve, you play them when its on the LINE....they will NOT help you in the playoffs if the only time they can play are garbage minutes up 40+....Doesn't work that way...I'm not saying leave your rotation in for an entire quarter, but I would not sit them that long either...Now granted, Nederland is not blowing EVERYBODY out in the district, so would sitting them last night for an entire quarter hurt them? NOT HARDLY...BUT, I have coached and played in situations in district where we were blowing EVERYBODY out like that...You can't sit guys down every 4th quarter of every district game like that...THAT WOULD BE DETRIMENTAL. [/quote] That's exactly what I said: Quote: "Not every district game is a blow out, so resting your starters in the 4th for 3-4 district games will not hurt you in the playoffs, IMO. If every game was a blow out, then you have a valid point, but that's not the case."
  15. When you're up by 25+ points at the beginning of the 4th Q against a 'weaker team', your starters should not get on the floor the rest of the game. You want to improve your team? Allow the bench players to improve their game. Not every district game is a blow out, so resting your starters in the 4th for 3-4 district games will not hurt you in the playoffs, IMO. If every game was a blow out, then you have a valid point, but that's not the case. Example last night was in the Ned/Vidor game. Ned had a 43 point lead after 3Qs, and the Ned starters sat the entire 4th Q. why would any coach keep the starters in that game is pointless. Allow your bench players to get PT which might help your team down the road.
  16. [quote name="BLUEDOVE3" post="1165814" timestamp="1327514850"] [quote author=DogFan3 link=topic=94873.msg1165790#msg1165790 date=1327510717] LOL in trouble??? really?? They always get fired up for bigger games!! [/quote]We will see. [/quote] ::) Yes we will! ;D 27 in a row, and still those in doubt, Love it! These kids thrive in big games, and they will continue doing so!
  17. [quote name="BMTSoulja1" post="1165780" timestamp="1327509714"] Ok, fine.  You will get a heck of a game from Ozen, because if Central's staff can't start getting off their butts and actually do what they are actually on the sidelines to do, then.... [/quote] I kinda figured that, bc I know your stance on the issue. I thought there was maybe something else? Unfortunately, some coaches get a job at a school like Central and think that all they have to do is roll out the ball and let them use their skills. That's NEVER the case in HS basketball. Even teams who have the best talent in the country (Findlay Prep) have a structured offense with plays.
  18. Impressive! How many years has he been there?
  19. [quote name="BMTSoulja1" post="1165657" timestamp="1327494256"] Congrads, Bulldogs.  All I can tell you is that you will get another heck of a game from ONE of the Beaumont schools in Beaumont. [/quote] I'm being serious here, not a smart-***, which Beaumont team? The reason I ask is bc I've read a few of your comments where you bit your tongue about last night's game.
  20. [quote name="bigdog" post="1165719" timestamp="1327502466"] [quote author=Dick Vitale link=topic=94847.msg1165591#msg1165591 date=1327466808] He got the "seat belt" rule put on him for the pre game tech....the ref did not HAVE to enforce it, but he did...I will have my thoughts on the Ozen/Central game tomorrow....and I have LOTS OF THEM, too! [/quote] How do you get a tech before the game?  Mouthing at the refs?? [/quote] Probably dunking while the refs were present before the game. Players can dunk during warm ups until the refs come out. They blow their whistle signaling that they are entering the court. As soon as that happens, no more dunking. It is enforced at every game, regardless where it is being played.
  21. [quote name="rc2182" post="1165579" timestamp="1327465835"] Ok NB-Dawg ,but don't say i didn't warn you ,actually Nederland had a good run but all good things eventually comes to an end. [/quote] I hear ya rc, and I will prepare myself for it. I am just hoping your prediction does not happen. I don't think they lose both games in Beaumont, but they may lose one. What will help is our crowd. Our fans usually show up in big games, even if they are out of town. Ned brought more fans than Central and Ozen had last year at their home, but we need to make sure that happens again this year. So bring yo kids, bring yo wives, bring yo husbands, cause we need to make some noise up in here!  ;D
  22. [quote name="rc2182" post="1165572" timestamp="1327465394"] I think i predicited OZEN by 4 missed it by 1 ,I also predicted Nederland loosing to both Ozen and Central I am looking at a three way tie for first in district. [/quote] You had a good run of fortune telling, but it will end!  ;D ;D
  23. [quote name="LAZEEK" post="1165562" timestamp="1327464781"] [quote author=bullets13 link=topic=94847.msg1165556#msg1165556 date=1327464489] think i might have mentioned an ozen overtime win on the broadcast last night for my prediction... :) [/quote] Indeed you did, and I mentioned if Ozen did win that you could gift wrap that district championship for the the Nederland Bulldogs!!! ;) ;) [/quote] ;D ;D ;D I like the sound of that!
  24. [quote name="bullets13" post="1165556" timestamp="1327464489"] think i might have mentioned an ozen overtime win on the broadcast last night for my prediction... :) [/quote] +1 for that prediction!
×
×
  • Create New...