CraigS

[quote name="Breakercoach" post="866788" timestamp="1286328049"]
[quote author=Tigers9 link=topic=73946.msg866375#msg866375 date=1286290186]
[size=12pt]the point is that ALL [s]organiazations[/s] organizations are doing a great job. The area went from 4 kids in a year (which was [s]rediculas[/s] ridiculous) and now so many more are living their dream.


Jimmie went to work and got all 8 seniors on that team a scholarship.....not teach them how to play. They were already good athletes, heading in the right direction.

allow yourselves to be complimented and know the point is the GT area teams have gotten more than FOUR kids a year playing college softball![/size]
[/quote]

Edited not to be self-promoting !

Excellent post !   ;D
[/quote]

Sorry BC........it wasnt edited for that at all.........it was edited to be written slower and more precise so you and others would get off the defensive and see the point rather than read into it to find something that wasnt there! Good try though.

It can be said however it makes everyone feel good, and thats fine. BUT, the facts remain the same, some of these organization have been around A LONG LONG time. Call it what you will, the number of kids playing college softball was almost extinct (not counting Blast Gold) and the rival between old and new caused people to rethink the way things were being done......the end result is the same....alot more kids reaching their dreams.

As usual, this is going in the defensive mode........not my intention. If you read carefully, or maybe I should just type slower......the point is that ALL organiazations are doing a great job. The area went from 4 kids in a year (which was rediculas) and now so many more are living their dream.

During that year everyone except GTS was around, the point to that is sometimes when a new kid shows up it makes everyone work harder.


Again I never said those players success came from only us.......I will say (for arguments sake) that NONE of the kids on the original GTS Gold had any contacts when they came.......Jimmie went to work and got all 8 seniors on that team a scholarship.....not teach them how to play. They were already good athletes, heading in the right direction...just didnt have any college contacts or leads or anything....and that information came from those kids and their parents.

SO....rather than take the defense....allow yourselves to be complimented and know the point is the GT area teams have gotten more than FOUR kids a year playing college softball!

4 years ago we announced the begining of a new Gold team......GT Shockers Gold.

The decision to this was based on several levels, mainly, because that particular year there were only 4 kids from the GT area to sign to play college softball.

As some of you remember, our decision to do this caused quite a stir in the softball world here in the GT. Looking back, it was the best decision we could have made. It not only created another opportunity for players to reach their dream, it made every other organization competitive in the recruiting department.

Im not sure exactly how many kids have comitted to play from all teams combined in the last 3 years,  but what I do know.....its way more than FOUR, (GT Shockers have comitted 24 alone) which makes all the arguing and complaining, belly aching, whinning, and crying......ALL WORTH IT!

[quote name="Tigers9" post="825335" timestamp="1281787532"]
[quote author=shake and bake link=topic=71529.msg825281#msg825281 date=1281751262]
Can't wait to get to call a Tiger12 game behind the plate. I have had CC,Trout,Cheater,Wiggins,BC and several others but have not gotton T12 yet. Could be fun. ;D
[/quote]

Actually, probably boring. [color=red][u][b]I dont really know the rules[/b][/u][/color], so I usually opperate on the basis that the umires are ALWAYS correct (judgement & rule interpretation) so I never, never, never agrue with or question an umpire.  ;)
[/quote]

OK Shake, I couldnt stand it. I went to jasper last night to umpire a couple games, to see what all the hipe was about. I did not have a single complaint from the stands or argument from a coach......It seems that because "I" had the clicker, everyone ASSUMED I knew what I was doing! Just goes to show......ANYONE can be an umpire.  ;D

[quote name="setx99" post="825921" timestamp="1281932389"]
Tigers9 would you please clarify your "step children comment" and let us know who this comment is being made toward?  Who are the "THEY" that you are referencing?  Also, who are the ex-GTS coaches who helped put your team together?
[/quote]

Id be more than glad to continue this conversation, (I dont think yall really want the truth) but I will continue it OR you can do as Ive asked (for the 3rd time now) leave US out of your conversations!

If you really want to know these answers, you can call me at 284-6809.....that way no ones feelings have to get hurt on this message board!

[quote name="SUPERSOFTBALLMOMMA" post="824154" timestamp="1281390267"]
[quote author=Dottie link=topic=71322.msg824139#msg824139 date=1281389231]
[quote author=LU Cards Fan link=topic=71322.msg824135#msg824135 date=1281388610]
Well it seems that this team already has controversy surrounding it. I was told that the Blast was coming back, but I thought it would be a brand new team. But from the looks of things it just another team going under a new name. I really was hoping this was something like they had when I was at LU. My DD will continue to play in the metro area. Kind of disappointed that it is starting out with controversy. So correct me if I am wrong several dads have come under the umbrella of the blast, with girls that have been playing for them. If this is true the coaches should have posted this in the tryout info. Letting people think that this was a brand new team is completely wrong.


LU football is back 
[/quote]

This IS a new team (And no.. I'm not associated with them but know who they are) Coach Don who was a Blast coach from way back when.. has come back into coaching. Other coaches are from the 10U GT Shockers of last season and one of the coaches from OOC's 10U team last season.  I do not know who all made the team but I do know there were a few girls from the shockers team and one of the girls from OOC that most likely made this team.

There really isn't any controversy other than ridiculous stuff that needs to go away. They are bringing back "blast" but it stands to reason some of the girls will be girls who were on other teams from here as the original blast girls are all grown up. They had a pretty good turn out at tryouts and hopefully ended up with a really strong team of girls.

This IS a new team. There are simply some girls who had been team mates last season. But that happens with every team. It's really not a big deal. And I'm sure they will be a great team who will carry on the Blast pride!
[/quote]

See, Dottie... This is exactly the nonsense I was referring to earlier. What did they think the players were going to all be league players? This area isn't that big...that means a limited talent pool. Any idiot could figure that out.  But I strongly suspect the "controversy" that supposedly surrounds this team comes from a few "daddies" that have their panties in  knot because they couldn't control all in the Golden Triangle softball world. I guess they thought they were "softball gods" and couldn't handle it when their underhanded tactics didn't pan out in their favor.

I've also noticed that a lot of these "controversial" posts come from fairly new users and most of their posts have been targeted at creating "controversy". If you ask me it is one or two people with an agenda posting under multiple names. 
[/quote]

Here is proof of ANOTHER lie.......you didnt stay out of anything. If you suspect such, just ask a moderator,  they can tell you who these people are, because it is against forum rules to have multiple names.


I can tell you for a fact, that it isnt anyone from ANY of the GTS teams.......as you insenuate!

You may have also noticed that anyone posting from my team or the GTS Org, has signed their name.......thats because we are NOT cowards and we do NOT hide behind screen names.........You started all of this BEFORE I even posted requesting that we be left out of it!

And Ill say again, leave us out of your conversations.

[quote name="SUPERSOFTBALLMOMMA" post="825793" timestamp="1281902956"]
[quote author=JohnnyT60 link=topic=71322.msg825768#msg825768 date=1281897716]
[quote author=SUPERSOFTBALLMOMMA link=topic=71322.msg825709#msg825709 date=1281880944]
[quote author=tpriddy link=topic=71322.msg825623#msg825623 date=1281843988]
SUPERSOFTBALLMOMMA, were you a parent who was involved in any of this? If so, speak for yourself.  My daughter was one that was "invited" to play with the team that went to Lufkin.  And the person that invited her is a parent whose daughter is on the Blast.  The way *I* remember it, we did not have all the details of the how and why prior to the first meeting.  We were invited to play and we agreed.  However, after the first meeting/practice, enough information was given to understand enough about why it was put together.  If people didn't like it after the first meeting/practice, why did they show up for the second practice and play in the tournament?  How that fits into DADS from the new GT Shocker team being deceitful, I have no idea.   Troy and I never once felt like we were being deceived.  The initial invitation has led us to where we are right now and for that I am thankful regardless of the hows and whys it all came about.

Craig's point was that there are no dads coaching the new GTS team.  The girls were not given spots based on the fact that one of their dads was going to help coach.  Simple as that.  

Are you saying that the girls on the GTS team did not make the team based on their skills?  Were you at the tryouts and did you see the girls that tried out?  If not, then how would you know who should have received spots?  

I second what Dottie said....I believe that the decision to join the GTS team is one of the best decisions we have made for our daughter with regard to softball.  They did bust their butts at tryouts (both of them) and continue to bust their butts at practices and have earned their spots on the team.  If you don't believe me, come check out one of our practices.  These girls have been practicing extremely hard and are still coming back for more.  They know all their hard work will only make them better.  So don't knock it until you try it.

Why people (especially anonymous people) feel the need to create conspiracy when there is none, I will never understand.  Get over it and move on.  We sure have and are extremely happy with our decision.  We are looking forward to the upcoming season and are not looking back.

Amy
[/quote]

Wait a minute...[b]I never said anything negative about ANY girl on that team[/b]. I have nothing negative to say about those girls, but for Craig Soignet to come on here and say that no spots were taken is completely FALSE, because they were. There was a reason you didn't know details prior to the first meeting, it was because a dad was orchestrating it that way. He kept it very quiet what his true intent was, because he knew that was the only way he would get parents to agree. I'll be happy to let the so called "controversy" go away, but I will not sit quietly while people spew half-truths.

I am very glad you are happy.
[/quote]

But you did when you said that those girls only made it because there Daddies were going to coach. Don't you see.
[/quote]

I don't think I said any daddy was going to coach. Please show me where I said that a daddy was going to coach. What I said was daddies were INVOLVED, and I stand by that.

Soignet showed up at the practice to get ready for the Lufkin tournament and turned it into a parent meeting/tryout. That isn't what we thought we were showing up there for. I just want Soignet and all of his minions to quit splitting hairs and be honest.

[color=red]LIE #1 - "If I remember this correctly"....I went to West Brook High School (WHERE MY DAUGHTER  PRACTICES) and this team showed up there or does your selective memory fail you. AS you say I want that bit of info to go away and not be mentioned.[/color]


Soignet attacked a poster for saying that most all teams have a few spots taken before tryouts happen. He says that isn't so in his organization. All I'm saying is, it IS so.

[color=red]LIE #2 - I asked that we not be brought into this, a parent that was upset that their kid didnt make  the Blast team started bashing YALL, the poster brought us into, AGAIN selective memory on your part.[/color]


One more thing. The way I remember it, this started out as a tryout thread for the Blast, and for some reason  certain people felt a need to create controversy around that team (where there was none) and used this thread to do it.

[color=red]Truth #1 - you finally told a TRUTH.......but it wasnt me, the league player that didnt make your team was the one questioning ya'lls coaches decisions, then one of YALL chose to bring OUR name into it (as if you knew anything about us)[/color]

I read it and tried to ignore it for a while, but eventually I felt the need to call Bull$**t on it.

[color=red]TRUTH #2 - There is BS as you put, all Ive asked is that Yall leave us out of it![/color]

If that makes me unpopular on this board, so be it. The only reason I can come up with for the BS that has been spewed is because the people doing it are either afraid of the competition

[color=red]NOW THIS IS FUNNY! I suggest you check the records and accomplishment of the CURRENT Blast powers to that of OURS.........the step children do not bother me at all......but if THEY are what you calling competition........then you need to get out more ALOT more![/color]

or are just mad that certain parents chose to go somewhere other than the Shockers. As Dottie stated before, there is enough talent to support both teams, but for some reason, certain people are just very opposed to that, which is very puzzling to me.

[color=red]Ive been around long enough to know what talent is, but thanks for the lesson, If I need anymore help I'll be sure to ask you.......


If you truely want to get into a spitting contest over which organization has done what THEN or NOW, Ill be more than glad to expose the laundry.....and in case you want to try a twist.......BLAST GOLD is NOT part of the Beaumont Blast Org..........if you care to know THAT history.......Ill of they left, Ill let Trout expalin it.....second fiddle, just a hint[/color]

[b]Admin Note[/b]  Watch the language, Tiger9.

[/quote]

[quote name="SUPERSOFTBALLMOMMA" post="825709" timestamp="1281880944"]
[quote author=tpriddy link=topic=71322.msg825623#msg825623 date=1281843988]
SUPERSOFTBALLMOMMA, were you a parent who was involved in any of this? If so, speak for yourself.  My daughter was one that was "invited" to play with the team that went to Lufkin.  And the person that invited her is a parent whose daughter is on the Blast.  The way *I* remember it, we did not have all the details of the how and why prior to the first meeting.  We were invited to play and we agreed.  However, after the first meeting/practice, enough information was given to understand enough about why it was put together.  If people didn't like it after the first meeting/practice, why did they show up for the second practice and play in the tournament?  How that fits into DADS from the new GT Shocker team being deceitful, I have no idea.   Troy and I never once felt like we were being deceived.  The initial invitation has led us to where we are right now and for that I am thankful regardless of the hows and whys it all came about.

Craig's point was that there are no dads coaching the new GTS team.  The girls were not given spots based on the fact that one of their dads was going to help coach.  Simple as that. 

Are you saying that the girls on the GTS team did not make the team based on their skills?  Were you at the tryouts and did you see the girls that tried out?  If not, then how would you know who should have received spots? 

I second what Dottie said....I believe that the decision to join the GTS team is one of the best decisions we have made for our daughter with regard to softball.  They did bust their butts at tryouts (both of them) and continue to bust their butts at practices and have earned their spots on the team.  If you don't believe me, come check out one of our practices.  These girls have been practicing extremely hard and are still coming back for more.  They know all their hard work will only make them better.  So don't knock it until you try it.

Why people (especially anonymous people) feel the need to create conspiracy when there is none, I will never understand.  Get over it and move on.  We sure have and are extremely happy with our decision.  We are looking forward to the upcoming season and are not looking back.

Amy
[/quote]

Wait a minute...I never said anything negative about ANY girl on that team. I have nothing negative to say about those girls, [color=red][u][b]but for Craig Soignet to come on here and say that no spots were taken is completely FALSE, because they were.[/b][/u][/color] There was a reason you didn't know details prior to the first meeting, it was because a dad was orchestrating it that way. He kept it very quiet what his true intent was, because he knew that was the only way he would get parents to agree. I'll be happy to let the so called "controversy" go away, but I will not sit quietly while people spew half-truths.

I am very glad you are happy.
[/quote]

AGAIN! I say, leave our organization out of this conversation, UNLESS, you have been to our tryout, been part of our organization, or have spoken to me personally.
I can take alot, I have VERY thick skin (been doing this for a LONG while) but I will not keep quite when someone Lies, degrades, or offers FALSE (as you put it) information about the GT Shockers Organization.

Ill use the "KISS" (Keep It Simple Stupid) method for the impaired.

1) No dad was involved in tryouts
2) No dad is a coach
3) I didnt even pick the players, that made the team (current GTS Gold coaches, ex GTS coaches, and current GTS Gold players did that)
4) Once I was given the final list of players who were thought to be the best, I made the calls

Im NOT sure of YOUR agenda, but IF you want to make this an ISSUE and continue to drag us into this, I can and will accomodate you.

You seem to be amused that I sign my name, thats because Im not sure you newbies know what my screen name is, so I made sure everyone knew it was ME (Craig Soignet) responding, and that Im not going to HIDE behind a screen name. Are you willing to do the same, or just spout lies and stir crap you know NOTHING about behind SUPERSOFTBALLMOMMA!

Craig Soignet

[quote name="shake and bake" post="825281" timestamp="1281751262"]
Can't wait to get to call a Tiger12 game behind the plate. I have had CC,Trout,Cheater,Wiggins,BC and several others but have not gotton T12 yet. Could be fun. ;D
[/quote]

Actually, probably boring. I dont really know the rules, so I usually opperate on the basis that the umires are ALWAYS correct (judgement & rule interpretation) so I never, never, never agrue with or question an umpire.  ;)

[quote name="Cheater" post="824769" timestamp="1281582191"]
[quote author=AggiesAreWe link=topic=71529.msg824684#msg824684 date=1281563869]
Just stick to school sports. Less drama and headache and easier on the wallet.. ;D
[/quote]


This is going to hurt but I have to agree with you on one thing......  It is easier on the wallet.

As for travel vs HS.....  [size=14pt][u][b]done both[/b][/u][/size]!  At least most travel ball players know there limitations, know what it takes to get better, and have some knowledge and skill to play the game.  Many HS only players don't relize what is out there! 

Travel is the only way.....
[/quote]

Really? Thats what you call that.....bucket sitting, umpire arguing, threatening parents who are observant enough to pickup pitching signs....etc.....WOW....I think even I could do that job! Oh, nevermind, I dont have a PE degree....im not qualified!

just kidding cheater....oh by the way...that "other" thread......some things arent even worth commenting on....I havent mellowed at all! In fact as you know, I just took over a team of 11 yo, just so I could stick around and cause MORE trouble!

[quote name="setx99" post="824007" timestamp="1281366276"]
It's apparent that you are disappointed that your daughter did not make this team, but the way teams are picked isn't any different on any other team out there.  If a coach has a playing daughter and he has 2 or 3 assistant coaches and they have kids playing then that is 3 spots taken already, then if you have kids previously on the team they will pick from them before looking at others. [color=red][i][u][b]If you look at the "new" GT Shockers, its the same.[/b][/u][/i][/color]  It doesn't differ that much from rec ball either.  They need to do A and B teams so that more girls can play and if they aren't performing on the A-team and a girl on the B-team is performing they can switch them out.  I hear that they do this in Houston.  You might try OOC as far as try outs go and make sure you go to both, they lost a lot of girls.  I don't think personally that this team put up a front in having try outs, but I do understand where you are coming from, if you take a hard look at the other teams, you'll find it's not different.

[/quote]

Leave us out of this unless you have at least attended our tryouts or have been a part of our program, or have spoken to ME personally. I do not have coaches that are dads at this point. The coaches are Me (Craig Soignet) and several GTS Gold players.

NO DAD HAS BEEN PART OF ANYTHING WE HAVE DONE TO THIS POINT.

I will ask a dad or two to help me out as we move into the season, however, these dads will be chosen AFTER the kids have been chosen, therefore NO SPOTS WERE TAKEN (as you put it) due to daddy coaches being pre-determined!

Thanks,
Craig Soignet

"Gold" is a ASA term.  It is kind of like A vs. B ball...it's a classification.  The ultimate 18u tournament is the gold tournament.  You must qualify to play in the ASA gold  National tournament.  It is supposed to be the highest level of play.  I'm sure this an incomplete explanation maybe someone will give you a complete answer.

Sincerely,
Mrs. T12 or 9 or whoever we are these days

PS  If I just stepped into some kind of argument....I just took the question at face value.  There may be a reason no one answered...I did not intend to "stir".

[quote name="HillGuy" post="823742" timestamp="1281279062"]
[quote author=Tigers9 link=topic=71312.msg823590#msg823590 date=1281204652]
[quote author=shake and bake link=topic=71312.msg823587#msg823587 date=1281202678]
Tiger, I knew you couldn't stay away ;D. I am really liking this retirement thing. I can mow the grass, and do lots of make up work that has been put off for the last 8 years or so.  ;D
[/quote]

I did retire for one year ( and REALLY enjoyed it)....I took the Bret Farve retirement package. However, in the end, I coudnt stay way, youre right.....I love the the game and the kids.
[/quote]

But will you wear your retirement sandals out on the field?   ;D ;D
Good luck my friend...I miss it too!
[/quote]

No.  I havent worn those since Trout told me I couldnt come on HIS field with them on.......they werent really ME anyway!

You  can come out and help me.......just like old times.

[quote name="rykerx144" post="823616" timestamp="1281216447"]
[quote author=tvc184 link=topic=71445.msg823593#msg823593 date=1281209170]
Yep, been there, seen that.

I could tell you similar stories and they aren't rumors because I was the one putting on handcuffs. Sometimes the cover ups go deeper than you may think.
[/quote]

i second that!!   I worked as a school officer and worked with alot of the school officers in the area.  Youd be surprised!!
[/quote]

NO, I wouldnt be surprised.

That's why I bring this topic up.....it is absolutely disgraceful! But until the general public becomes educated about this (or if they do know, start caring) it will continue to get worse. The very students that are allowed to continue along these lines of behavior will get worse and worse......until they what? Kill someone! All because these AD's and ISD's (and not all of them) are willing to give their souls for the all mighty win!

Just in the few examples I have given, the trend has already begun.....showing arrest for multiple felony charges!

I do know the system, "a charge" does not mean guilty, true. However, mistakes happen, it is not likely that these officers are arresting these kids just to be mean to them.....Id say give the officers the benefit of the doubt, and punish the perpatrators at least from participating for the year in question.....if for nothing else.....they shouldnt have been in a place to have to defend "charges" in the first place!

Heck, OF's AD kicks kids off teams for an entire year for missing 2 practices! (Disclaimer: not sure if this is fact, I read it on another thread.) Which by the way seems to be way overkill to me. But, then again, they didnt get arrested for theft or drugs!

[quote name="shake and bake" post="823587" timestamp="1281202678"]
Tiger, I knew you couldn't stay away ;D. I am really liking this retirement thing. I can mow the grass, and do lots of make up work that has been put off for the last 8 years or so.  ;D
[/quote]

I did retire for one year ( and REALLY enjoyed it)....I took the Bret Farve retirement package. However, in the end, I coudnt stay way, youre right.....I love the the game and the kids.

[quote name="WOSgrad" post="823579" timestamp="1281200816"]
Just a warning to all involved the following rules:

15) Please do not post unsubstantiated rumors, suspicions or slanderous comments about anyone - this includes non-members of the forums, and;

18 ) The bashing of any particular coach, player, referee, etc will not be tolerated. This includes issues involving their personal lives, coaching/playing style or performance, past experiences, etc.

Let's just make sure that our specifics don't get too specific.
[/quote]

Fair enough, eventhough I didnt in the first place (because I was a Moderator and I KNEW the rules). HOWEVER, I have seen news articles and other documents on here making the subject FACT. and if in FACT they are participating on these particular teams and at these particular ISD.....why would that not be allowed (of course with documentation to support) (police reports....football rosters....etc) ....just a question!

reminder: tomorrow at 2pm

[quote name="WOSgrad" post="823553" timestamp="1281194569"]
[quote author=Tigers9 link=topic=71472.msg823551#msg823551 date=1281193950]
A thread gets deleted for what? No names were stated, no ISD was mentioned.

It doesnt change the fact that this ISD has mishandled MANY MANY discipline situations....having that thread deleted only PROVES you will do whatever it takes to HIDE behind what you think are your powers......you cant delete or have deleted what gets printed in the paper......
[/quote]

You have the wrong admin.....AAW didn't remove that thread I did.  It was a topic that had some value until you had to go ahead and starting printing specifics about the crimes that these individuals allegedly committed.  The fact that you didn't name names or the ISD is of no importance.  SETXsports.com has never allowed the dirty laundry of a young man  or woman, regardless of the sport, to be aired here (you should know that being a former moderator here) and we are not going to start today!

If you feel you have info that is pertinent or newsworthy, consult your local media.

For what is worth, the thread is being reviewed by my colleagues and if they feel I am in error, the topic will reappear, but after your last post in that thread, I wouldn't hold my breath.
[/quote]

I wasnt talking about AAW (if I have a prob with Mike, I'll be sure to let him know...but I dont)....It was directed at the ISD admin......actually Im glad to know you acted alone!

The FACT that I didnt name names is exactly what is IMPORTANT.....How can this forum get a TRUE sense of what my points are until they TRUELY understand the situation.....with the EXACT crimes and the EXACT outcome by the ISD......how can one truely offer an opinion.

How do you know that any of what I posted to even be TRUE stories and not examples to get the public opinion! The stories are true! My point being without names or mention of a particular ISD....does it matter......only because people do know who I am, and of these situations, which puts a face to problems this particular ISD has!

On another note....people have already read it, its kinda like being in a court room and the judge saying.....strike that last statement.....the jury cant just UNHEAR things.....my point was made!

And yet another, as long as the "story" is from outside our area, MUCH worse has been allowed......ONLY because it hits HOME does this happen!

One more thing......I would do it all over again.....it was worth the political move (to remove me as a mod) to clean up the softball forum.....it is much more civil and sticks to the point...much more informative.....etc....etc....etc!

A thread gets deleted for what? No names were stated, no ISD was mentioned.

It doesnt change the fact that this ISD has mishandled MANY MANY discipline situations....having that thread deleted only PROVES you will do whatever it takes to HIDE behind what you think are your powers......you cant delete or have deleted what gets printed in the paper......

In the cases Ive mentioned:

Case one: skipped school to the point the truancy officer took him to court. The judge ordered him to community service and probation...the community service was not done in the time alotted. The judge found the kid in contempt of court then sentenced him to 3 days in jail! (which he served) This same student was in DAEP for another school violation (threatening to shoot a teacher), he was skipping to avoid DAEP time. By the the time all of this was over, so was school for that year. The student did not serve out the year in DAEP as the ISD had issued him. The stance of the ISD was that, that was last YEAR....nothing we can do about it. Of course nothing from the AD....
Current status: graduated, but did play football the entire year last year. Was later indicted on a felony charge and spent the rest of the year away from the campus!

Case two: Kid was seen by police officer coming out of school building, he was arraigned by this officer. The officer called the city police being he was a county officer. The city officials contacted the AD (athletic building) the AD instructed the police to "ticket" him he would take care of it. Charges went from possible felony theft of a building, to a simple misdemenor theft charge! Source: the county official that arraigned him in the first place....he knows my frustration with this ISD so he shared his story to show how they (police officers) are FRUSTRATED as well. They do their jobs and the higher ups allow them back on the streets as if nothing happened.
Current status: playing football this fall

Case three: Kid was ARRESTED for possession of marijuana (obviously the arresting police officer saw something or had something to make the arrest) Current status:  Playing football this fall

Another case: kid caught with drug paraphinilia (marijuana seeds) on campus. ISD, states, it was "only" seeds...sentences kid to ISS....no affect to athletic status.
Current status: graduated. However, later indicted on 2 other felony charges.

Arrested or convicted? As I understand the legal process. First (unless its on site at the time of the crime) the officer has to believe there is probable cause, the Judge will then issue a probable cause affidavit, they get arrested....DA decides if he thinks there is enough to take to GJ....GJ either no bills or true bills....if GJ true bills (they obviously thought there was enough to indict) then the jury or plea bargaining begin.

Point: once a person is arrested, there were several law enforcement personnel that had enough evidence that thought a crime had been committed by that person....or none of those steps would have been taken in the first place.

Point: Don't confuse INNOCENT til proven guilty with PRESUMED innocent til proven guilty! Do not assume that if a plea is taken it PROVES they did not DO the original crime!

If a student finds themselves in any of these situations, they may attend school or be released back into society......THE quetion is....should they be allowed to participate in extraciricular activities representing their school.....yes they HAVE (maybe) paid their "debt" to society....but should the PRIVILEDGE of representing the school still be an option to that kid.....at least for that year.

[quote name="tvc184" post="823423" timestamp="1281123886"]
[quote author=Tigers9 link=topic=71445.msg823417#msg823417 date=1281122953]
[quote author=thetragichippy link=topic=71445.msg823372#msg823372 date=1281112301]
[quote author=tvc184 link=topic=71445.msg823367#msg823367 date=1281111110]
[quote author=Tigers9 link=topic=71445.msg823365#msg823365 date=1281110734]

I understand and agree with your description of "higher standard" I guess my point was more along the lines of....the school still has an obligation to provide an education to you even if you are out robbing stores or selling dope, after the law has released you back to the public.[size=10pt][b] If a kid has proven to be a "robber" or a "dope seller" should they be allowed to participate in extraciricular activities?[/b][/size][/quote]

[b]No.[/b]
[/quote]

HAIL NO!
[/quote]

Obviously I have specifics, just trying to make sure I'm not the one reaching with my belief! So to clarify your opinions a little more. If a kid is arrested for theft, or passession of drugs, gone to jail for truancy, they should not be allowed to participate........period!

There should not be a form of punishment by the coaches, then allowed to play in ANY of these examples....correct?
[/quote]

Truancy is a school issue like acting up in class or a discipline problem. That should be up to the school and the coach. While it is true that you can be arrested for truancy, you can also be arrested for disrupting the classroom or failing to signal a turn while driving to school. In fact, every citation issued by an officer is an arrest but you are released on your own recognizance. I don't think kids should lose UIL privileges for citations.

Those are not serious issues and are between the schools and coaches. I was talking about (and thought that I said) robberies, selling drugs, using drugs and other serious crimes. If you are selling dope, you should not be allowed the privilege to play sports or UIL sponsored events. If you are committing armed robberies... same answer. Breaking into homes? See Ya!
[/quote]

Thanks for the clarification!

As I said, I do have specific circumstances of interest. All those examples are "actual" and of course accompanied by police reports by way of the public information act. The other side is evident due to 2 a days starting and these players are on the field. When asked about that, Im only told that its a internal issue and they will be punished by the AD (Head football coach) before being allowed to play!

On the otherhand a cheerleader (JV) was kicked off the squad for missing a 15-20 minute (Varsity) pregame event of running through a runthrough poster with young children. This was due to the "constitution" stating the rules.

I dont have issues with the cheerleader being removed (it was the rule) just cant figure out how the ISD allows the football players to play with arrest records, or why the AD should allow it either!

By the way, these issues have been taken up with reps from the ISD, basically I was told the Cheerleaders have a constitution and athletics does not! So the next step would be? Public forum (with names and paperwork to prove it) Local paper....how do you stop this double standard?

[quote name="thetragichippy" post="823372" timestamp="1281112301"]
[quote author=tvc184 link=topic=71445.msg823367#msg823367 date=1281111110]
[quote author=Tigers9 link=topic=71445.msg823365#msg823365 date=1281110734]

I understand and agree with your description of "higher standard" I guess my point was more along the lines of....the school still has an obligation to provide an education to you even if you are out robbing stores or selling dope, after the law has released you back to the public.[size=10pt][b] If a kid has proven to be a "robber" or a "dope seller" should they be allowed to participate in extraciricular activities?[/b][/size][/quote]

[b]No.[/b]
[/quote]

HAIL NO!

Obviously I have specifics, just trying to make sure I'm not the one reaching with my belief! So to clarify your opinions a little more. If a kid is arrested for theft, or passession of drugs, gone to jail for truancy, they should not be allowed to participate........period!

There should not be a form of punishment by the coaches, then allowed to play in ANY of these examples....correct?
[/quote]

[quote name="tvc184" post="823345" timestamp="1281104580"]
They should all be the same no matter that activity.

I am not sure about the being held to a "higher standard" though. They should just live to the standard of other students, not higher. The standard for society and students should be that you aren't out breaking the law by robbing the local store, selling dope, etc. If other students need to be to class on time, UIL participants should not be made to be there 10 minutes early. No need for the "higher standard", just "the standard".
[/quote]

I understand and agree with your description of "higher standard" I guess my point was more along the lines of....the school still has an obligation to provide an education to you even if you are out robbing stores or selling dope, after the law has released you back to the public. If a kid has proven to be a "robber" or a "dope seller" should they be allowed to participate in extraciricular activities?

And you answered the other part....ALL should have same treatment...band / football if there are violations....without "extra" expectation from either or an additional set of rules such as constitutions, etc!

What are your opinions?

Attending school is the law, if a child has legal issues (Claification: I am not talking about routine traffic stops....refering to jail time incidents.), the school districts must work around these issues to continue providing an education, be it DAEP or ISS. However, extraciricular ativities are "privaledges" not "rights". Therefore if a student has legal issues should they be allowed to participate at all...."zero tolerance"!

This conversation comes by what seems to be a double standard of what would be called UIL events (so to speak) and that of athletics! If you are a school rep in many organizations, such as band, drill team, cheerleading, etc, you are required to live by a standard which is enforced by way of a "constitution", no such rules or "constitution" exist for athletics.

Within the school districts, there are rules, there are "employee handbooks" for ALL employees (janitors to superintendents) there are "student handbooks" for ALL students (the lowest ranking student to the Valdictorian) so the debate is: Should there be a "extraciricular hadbook" for ALL students representig the school (band members to football players)

My stance on this is simple as I stated above, representing the school is a PRIVILEDGE not a RIGHT! All students "choosing" to represent the school should have to live to a higher standard than others just "attending" school. It should not matter what event you are participating....UIL Math....Debate Team....Drill Team....Cross Country....Softball....Football. The consequences of your actions should be "exactly" the same!