Gasilla

I agree with you. I am not saying that they are preparing to win a scrimmage, I know they don't watch films and scout the other team. I'm saying that the outcome is important. Not on your record, but on how your team has progressed. If it were just practice then why go thru the trouble of arranging and playing them in all kinds of conditions like we have the last few weeks. If the outcome doesn't matter, then why do it at all? Why risk having players injured? It's because coaches need to see how they stack up against someone else and how they perform against that team matters, it matters a lot. See Gasilla, this is what I have been talking about all along. It matters how the team performs, not if they "win" or "lose" the scrimmage. I said a long time ago there are alot of semantics involved here... win, lose, outperform, underperform, what's the difference? It's the same thing. Just like people saying a scrimmage is just practice... BS... you are playing a game, or competing against another team where the result is tracked and yes, I've not seen a single scrimmage so far where no one kept score. Why? Because that is how you track success (or outperforming or underperforming if you like). When you keep score, there is a winner and a loser. I've never heard of someone scoring less points and tying or winning, have you? The result does matter whether it counts toward your record or not, it shows where you are at, at this point. It does not mean that you are going to have a bad season, just that you aren't as good as the team you are playing at that point. Again, that's the whole reason for them, to see how you stack up against the competition. All of that has nothing to do with my post to Stangchain, she was saying that the WOS coaches do not game plan to win a scrimmage, and they don't, but whether they win or lose that scrimmage is important to them. I will assume that you are speaking for yourself on this matter, Gasilla, and not for the WOS coaches. I find it hard to believe that the Mustang coaches consider "winning" a scrimmage the most important over how well or poor they perform in that scrimmage. An example being for the Mustangs starters to not score on another teams 1st team, the Chain Gang defense give up 2 td's, but WOS score 4 td's on the other team's complete 2nd and 3rd teams, therefore "winning" the scrimmage.(assuming you are right about the Mustangs not having a 2nd team, just some reserve players) p.s. I think this proverbial dead horse(mustang) ;D, is still kicking. That's why I am still beating it. ;D Of course, this is my opinion, just as yours, is yours. I've never polled our coaches about how they feel particularly about scrimmages, but I did play for a couple of them so I DO have a clue. As for scoring against second and third teams, I can only tell you that I've been to every scrimmage we have had in the last 4 or 5 years and, in that span, I have not seen another team put in a second or third team. I've seen a back up or two, but never an entire platoon (as I've said before). Friday, against vidor, they kept their first team in the entire game with some subs rotating in here and there (just like they would in a real game). It was that way for BOTH of us because BOTH teams wanted to WIN. I think the problem here is that your not very realistic on how these things work.

I agree with you. I am not saying that they are preparing to win a scrimmage, I know they don't watch films and scout the other team. I'm saying that the outcome is important. Not on your record, but on how your team has progressed. If it were just practice then why go thru the trouble of arranging and playing them in all kinds of conditions like we have the last few weeks. If the outcome doesn't matter, then why do it at all? Why risk having players injured? It's because coaches need to see how they stack up against someone else and how they perform against that team matters, it matters a lot. See Gasilla, this is what I have been talking about all along. It matters how the team performs, not if they "win" or "lose" the scrimmage. I said a long time ago there are alot of semantics involved here... win, lose, outperform, underperform, what's the difference? It's the same thing. Just like people saying a scrimmage is just practice... BS... you are playing a game, or competing against another team where the result is tracked and yes, I've not seen a single scrimmage so far where no one kept score. Why? Because that is how you track success (or outperforming or underperforming if you like). When you keep score, there is a winner and a loser. I've never heard of someone scoring less points and tying or winning, have you? The result does matter whether it counts toward your record or not, it shows where you are at, at this point. It does not mean that you are going to have a bad season, just that you aren't as good as the team you are playing at that point. Again, that's the whole reason for them, to see how you stack up against the competition. All of that has nothing to do with my post to Stangchain, she was saying that the WOS coaches do not game plan to win a scrimmage, and they don't, but whether they win or lose that scrimmage is important to them.

I'm going with Kville in this one. Last 10 yrs or so Diboll just seems to underachieve.

For WOS, it's offensive tackle, Tim Matherne. All other problems can be fixed, nothing can make him a senior again. He will be missed, dearly.

Dayton by quite a bit unless their kids have been reading to many headlines (or message boards).

When we get everyone healthy, I'm not sure they would need them. I'm pretty sure that they will not be pulled up unless they are going to play.

I agree with you. I am not saying that they are preparing to win a scrimmage, I know they don't watch films and scout the other team. I'm saying that the outcome is important. Not on your record, but on how your team has progressed. If it were just practice then why go thru the trouble of arranging and playing them in all kinds of conditions like we have the last few weeks. If the outcome doesn't matter, then why do it at all? Why risk having players injured? It's because coaches need to see how they stack up against someone else and how they perform against that team matters, it matters a lot.

Yes, the JV and Freshman teams both have been very impressive. I am really impressed with the way they handled Dayton last week, then to see what Dayton's sub varsities did to Lumberton, much hope for the future. As for the JV players. I think they can help, but we will be real tough when we have Cook, Roberts, Arnold and Ruben up front on the varsity. Then Reed and Provost rotating in.

Once again, someone talking about Hooks who has no clue about the man. If WOS loses to Kirbyville, then we lose to a team that was better than us that night. There is no shame in losing to a 2A school, especially one that is one year removed from being 3A. He may be upset, but it will be about the loss, not what classification the team that beat us was in.

Is those players Stephen Cook and Matthew Provost? If so, they are two of the best defenders on the team. YES ONE OF THEM IS STEPHEN COOK, THE OTHER IS JACOBY ROBERTS. MATTHEW PROVOST IS NOT INJURED, JUST NOT GETTING THE PLAYING TIME HE DESERVES IN MY OPINION. KEEP YOUR HEAD UP YOUNG MAN YOUR TIME IS COMING VERY SOON. Well those players being out explains alot. They will be fine when they get back. Provost is an excellent player. I never understood why he wasn't getting alot of playing time. If I'm not mistaken, Provost is #81 and he is on the field most of the time. i think he plays both offense and defense. Another thing, I was very impressed with the Vidor Wing-T. I think it's a perfect offense for their personnell. They will not be 2-8 this year.

I've never seen 36 seniors beat 11 good football players.

They scored 21.

I think a Raider fan in another thread about this scrimmage said that lumbertons "vaunted" defense would be able to get more pressure on the QB than WOS did. Kind of funny, Lumberton makes the playoffs for the first time in history and all of a sudden they are better than a perenial defensive power house, without even seeing the team they are playing! Then they play that team and don't even sniff said QB... AWESOME! :D

Hopefully the team and Coaches will come around. I don't think we have anything to worry about. The offense moved the ball well, just made some mistakes inside the 20. Had 2 TD's called back. The defense played well in the first half. Vidor didn't move the ball that well. In the second half they wore us out and got a couple of late TD's. That wont happen when we have the starters back and in the rotation.

That's funny. You don't become "the team to beat" by proxy. You do it by beating everyone else year in and year out. You become "the team to beat" by, historically, owning the teams around you.

I think we've still got some work to do, but I feel better about this scrimmage than last weeks. Hypo threw the ball much better, he set his feet much better, but he's still waiting a little to late. He had more time, so the line blocked better. We had some pretty good runs by Hypo and Garret. Really, we moved the ball well between the 20's we just made some mistakes in the red zone which cost us points. I think we had 3 drives end inside the 20 with no points. I'm not worried about the defense. Vidor didn't have much success moving the ball in the first half. In the second half I feel like they wore us out, but, for those who don't know, we are missing our 2 starting defensive tackles who are out with injury. Not only does that kill you by not having them, but it also hurts your depth because their backups have no one to fill in for them. Over all, I was encouraged because we showed some improvement. Yeah, we tied Vidor, but I think Vidor is going to surprise some folks this year. That big old running back is a load and the Wing T is hell to defend.

OrangeFBfan, I totally agree with you. But, there are some Mustang fans who would disagree with you. It's not just a scrimmage to them, you know who you are. Are you trying to call me out or something? Yeah, I know who I am and my feelings about these scrimmages has not changed a bit and never will. Last night showed us EXACTLY where we are right now. We know what we need to work on. And another thing, there was no "second team" on the field last night at any time for either team. There were backups that filled in, but that's it. This was an extra game that both teams had the benefit of playing. Now, as for you, we are not going to agree on this, EVER. So you will be doing good by just dropping this and stop trying to pick a fight with me.

I've got to go by there this morning. I'll give a report on the field condition later. If I know Dan, that field will get mowed and the grass will be short as possible.

Was Asa wearing #4 or #21?

I think Gasilla, who is a WOS fan, would disagree with that assessment. Yes I would. I know they did not watch game film, but they prepared to win and tried to win and were beaten, soundly, by the better team that night. Those of you who say the game was close didn't see it.

I can totally see your point if you're talking about 5A teams that actually have platoon substitutions, but we both follow 3A schools and neither of them have the luxury of having a 2nd "team", they have 2nd string players that rotate in with the first string players. Not very often do you see more than 2 or 3 second teamers out there with the rest of the starters. The whole, "they scored on our "B" team" thing is usually more like they scored while we had a couple of 2nd string players on the field. Anyway, it's a good little debate that's beginning to get old. I just think these scrimmages mean way more than some want to admit. It's just to easy to say, "it was JUST a scrimmage". Now, I do not see why on earth a coaching staff would scout a scrimmage. Seems like a waste of man power, but I bet that, if Dayton did scout Lumberton. It had more to do with a potential match up in the playoffs than it did winning their scrimmage.

I am not debating the fact that you should practice hard or play hard in these scrimmages. You should always do that. I agree, it builds champions. But my point is the fact that some fans want to hang their hat on a scrimmage "win" or "loss". Too many variables go on during a scrimmage that would not give an accurate account to some team winning or losing. If team A scores 3 times and team B scores 2 times then all that means is team A had better results, no win or loss. It's just that simple. Sure are a lot of semantics going on here. The problem I have, and others do to, is that those fans from teams who lose always try to downplay a scrimmage when they lose. Scrimmages ARE an indication of where your team is, like it or not. Those people who come on here and say, "well, they were trying to win and we were just practicing" it's just a bunch of BS. They are trying to make themselves feel better about getting pushed around, whether you want to call it a loss or "having lesser results", it's all the same to me. Does that mean your team will have a bad year... no. It shows you where you need to improve and that's why you do it and you can't know that these areas need improving if you weren't giving a winning effort or the same effort that your opponent was giving. If you were giving less, then what would be the point of scrimmaging?

Being a 4qtr game scrimmage and vidor being so close, I'll bet it's going to be packed.

You try different things and different kids in different positions, but you are still playing to win. The coaches are playing to win and the fans who claim it doesn't matter are just trying to make themselves feel better. WOS got their butts kicked, but no one is here saying it doesn't matter. Oh heck yeah it matters, glad we won't be playing Dayton this year when it counts. No, it does not count on your record, but it IS an indication of where your team is and how they are progressing. So, yeah, it matters and their ARE winners and losers whether it shows on your record or not.

Don't worry about the haters man. WOS get's the same crap every year about these game scrimmages, "Oh, were were just trying different things... blah, blah blah". WOS treats them the same way and plays to win every time too. The subs get in when they get in, but those teams who do not prepare to win are the same ones who rarely see week 11 and never see week 12.