tvc184

Now I am reading that the deceased did not have a weapons license and he was not pulled over for a taillight out. Of course the girlfriend spit that out while the guy was dying. Why was he pulled over? An armed robbery had taken place not far away and this guy fit the description. According to some unconfirmed reports that I read the officer's recording (not the after the fact one by the girlfriend... making an alibi perhaps) that the officer ordered the guy not to move or to stop moving. Again, none of this is confirmed except that guy being stopped as a robbery suspect which I believe was put out by the state police. IF.. the "what if" game.... If these things are true, does it change some of the opinions that the officer is guilty and there seems to be no need for an investigation? Let's say the officer was pulling over a guy and maybe girl that he believes just committed an armed robbery, he ordered the guy not to move and then the guy did move and was shot.... does it change the "let's build the gallows and hang the officer now" which seems to have prevailed in some of the posts? Also and without knowing the truth of any of these, does it tend to make sense on the idea of let's see what the investigation shows before we convict? If only the armed robbery suspect is correct and the handgun license facts change, that alone would tend to change the dynamic of the incident completely from what has been portrayed.

I think you hit the nail square on the head. Obviously there are bad cops but very few. I have seen recent stats that show an average of 2% of officers even kill anyone in the line of duty in an entire career. I am not sure about those but they seem to be in line from that I have seen. That is not only unlawful or improper uses of deadly force but all of them, with most being ruled lawful That probably leaves well less than 1% of all officers ever being involved in a wrongful use of deadly force. Think about that. Over 99% of officers likely will never be involved in an unlawful death. Feel free to compare that to any other profession and any area of misconduct. And I completely agree that it takes a special person and some should not be in the profession. If it was up to the police, they would weed most of them out. Politicians sometimes get in the way of removing many of those officers. They also fall far short of money needed and not in salary but in training. I would be willing to bet that a majority of officers fire their weapons on duty once a year at annual qualifications. Any other training falls on the officer to purchase his own ammo, weapons, range membership, etc. Even in that actual firing of weapons, there is little training on use of force in general. I doubt that we will see any of those politicians stepping up and making those moneys available anytime in the near future.

The only procedure is to shoot until the threat is over. Not the television fire a single shot and step back and take notes if it appears to have stopped any potential attack. Officers are trained to fire multiple shots very quickly. The last officer involved shooting that I saw locally was 7 shots in around 2 to 2.5 seconds. There is not a lot of time to step back and view the results of shots fired and assess whether more are needed. To do so is to increase the risk of death to the officer. Maybe the first or second shot ended the incident but in less than another second and a half there simply is not time to make that judgment. The officer did not start the incident. The deceased (like almost always) started the sequence of events that ended in him being shot, not the officer.

Based on what? You have no facts at all other than the guy was shot. Speculation isn't a fact and the girlfriend's statement isn't a fact. What happens when (assuming he had it) the officer's recording is made public? Let's play "what if". What if the officers said give me your driver's license and within a second opens fire with no other commands? Yeah, the officer probably overreacted. What if the officer says give me your license and sees the guy reaching toward the gun and the officer yells "Don't do that!". Then "Stop!! Stop NOW!!" and the guy keeps reaching and then the officer opens fire? What if the officer says give me your license and opens fire within a second but the guy lunged for his weapon? Does the audio then completely change the scenario? Can the officer be totally wrong when seen one way and completely correct in another.... all changing only on the officer's words and actions? Can even the time frame look bad on the officer if the suspect lunged for a weapon when truthfully, the officer did say give me your license? As you note, the facts are not out yet you 100% agree that the officer was wrong. Jumping to conclusions on both sides is equally wrong. Looks bad? Sure. Is bad? How do we know at this point?

At least one officer dead.

Bullets13 has a sister on duty right now at Dallas PD. He has made contact with her after the shooting.

The black eye might be from the fact that the video never shows what happened before. In the car for example we see nothing but the aftermath. In BR we see very little as the videos are too far away or do not show the critical parts. The officers may be right and they may be wrong but people are drawing sides based on wishful thinking.

It appears that the officers were possibly shot by a sniper. Maybe three down. It has to be the officers' fault for being in uniform. I wonder if the community will be outraged.

Maybe 3 officers shot.

Very true because it is not good for survival to shoot second.

I don't know that the officer was wrong and neither do you. In any case, point out any post that I have made that said the officer was in the right. I'll be waiting.............

Two officers just shot in Dallas at protest.

Training. The last shooting locally where I watched the video, an officer fired 7 shots in about 2.5 seconds. It sure isn't TV where one hit is a kill and the man goes down.

Really?

They need you on that investigation then so you can show them how to prove the case.

Do you have a concealed carry? If so you went to the classes. The law clearly says that officers can disarm you. What part of a license gives a person the authority to reach for a weapon while speaking with an officer?

This will fall on deaf eyes but how do you know the officer was wrong?

The problem at reviewing the MN video is that the video is almost meaningless. It shows nothing but a guy was shot and we know that without a video. Knowing almost nothing about what happened and people have already made a judgment which is ludicrous.

A carry license = crooked cops? That might make some kind of rational sense to someone but not me. What does having a concealed carry license have to do with this guy getting shot? Are you saying that if he didn't have a license, the officer would have been justified?

Chris Rock did a pretty funny skit a few years back that has probably been seen about 100 million times on how not to get shot by the police. While it is funny, the message is clear.

So what?

Did he really die "because he had a gun"? I would agree 100% it's a cop walked up and said you've got a gun and shot him. From what I saw on the video the officer ordered him to the ground, then tackled him to the ground when he refused and he still continue to fight and during that fight the officer yelled that he found a gun. Even when they found the gun (supposedly since we do not know) and an officer pulled out a gun, the guy continued to fight. That is not being killed because you have a gun. Killed because he had a gun is nothing but a smoke screen.

I am sure the investigation is far from over. What is probably public at the moment from news reports is that the police were responding to a man with a gun and was claimed to be pointing it at the person that called the police. In case that didn't sink in, the police did not initiate this contact. Someone called the police of a many threatening another with a gun. Two officers responded and you could hear a pop on the camera that sounded to me like a Taser being fired. The store owner reported to the media that an officer did use a Taser on the man. If the officer did it either did not work or both darts did not hit the target. Tasers are far from foolproof. Then he was ordered to the ground which could be heard on the video. After a couple of seconds of no compliance by the guy, an officer tackled him. During the struggle you can hear an officer that sounded like he said, "He's got a gun.... gun" . At that point at least one officer pulled out his firearm. A few seconds of continued struggle (where the deceased could have given up at any time but would not) the shots were fired. The store owner where this happened stated that one of the officers did pull a gun out of the suspect's pocket. Were the officers in reasonable fear of their lives from a man that another person claimed was pointing a gun at him? Who then refused officers commands to get on the ground? Who continued to fight after officers claim to have found a gun on the suspect, yelled it out for the other officer but the suspect had to hear that the officers found the gun and after theirs were drawn, he continued to fight? This continued fight made it a risk to officers that the suspect could get the gun, assuming the report of the gun in his pocket are correct. The store owner is reported to have said, the suspect didn't have his hand on the gun.... yet. I am guessing that some people think that officers should wait until a suspect actually gets the gun out.... you know, to make it more fair. None of the above is proven but it is what has been reported. Hopefully an investigation will get to the bottom of what happened. Looking at it from a video several feet away and viewing it from the eyes of people that were not in a struggle for their own lives, it is easy to blame the officers. Obviously that is easy to do when the video shows very little of anything that is going on while the officers are on the ground struggling. I cannot tell if the officers were correct or not but I know that many people are ready to build the gallows with no evidence needed. Like almost every one of these incidents, it could have been completely avoided by simply complying with an officers commands which in a situation like this (reported a man with a gun) are almost always lawful. If someone reports to the police that a man is waving a gun at people on the street or at an individual, there is almost no court in the land that does not think the officer can restrain that person, with force if needed, to find out if he is a threat to the public. I do not know Louisiana law but I'm sure that is similar to Texas. In Texas law clearly states that you cannot resist even an unlawful arrest. The place you fight whether an arrest was lawful is in court, not on the side of the street. In Graham v. Connor the US Supreme Court stated in a rare unanimous decision that use of force by officers must be viewed from the officer's prospective, who have to make a split second decision and not have months to sit back and go over evidence that will come out long after the incident is over. Just for a real quick note on that case, a completely innocent person was detained by officers after it was believed that one of them saw what he believed to be an armed robbery when a guy ran into and a very short time later back out of the store. In fact the guy was having a medical crisis and needed sugar (I think he was going into insulin shock). When officers stopped him, he resisted since he had signs of intoxication which was later found to be the result of the medical crisis. The guy ended up going to the hospital after being injured by the officers but for minor injuries. So we had a completely innocent man who was having a medical issue that had force used against him by officers. The Supreme Court ruled in the officer's favor because even though the facts later came out that the guy was innocent, the officers had no way of knowing that at that moment in time. Their actions were reasonable from their viewpoint. Again, it is easy to sit back and criticize when you are not on the ground fighting and a gun is not a few inches from you with a guy struggling maybe to get the gun. People have that luxury of 20/20 hindsight. The Supreme Court says that legally we have to look at it from the eyes of the guy in the fight. None of that means the officers were correct and maybe they will be charged with the incident. Neither does a video seen from a different viewpoint mean that they are guilty. What is a shame is that no one wants to find out what really happened and simply wants to convict the officers. Much like the Freddie Gray fiasco in Baltimore showed us, a rush to judgment is very easy but may not render the truth. Assuming that the suspect really did have a gun, was pointing it at people and had it within reach in his pocket, who can look at that video and tell me that the officers were not in any danger? With nothing more than that if video people are demanding a conviction for murder of the officers. That shows that rational thinking is no longer available in incidents like this. And again and again and again… The blame never seemsto be on the person who violated the law but resisting the officers. This is the person who was given lawful commands by an officer and refuse to do so. These people are always made out to be angels and victims of an illegal system. Do you know why officers almost always are found not guilty in cases like this? It is because the law is on their side. If an officer tells you to stop then you have to stop. If he believes you have a weapon and orders you to the ground then you had better get on the ground. We can look at some US Supreme Court cases and while they often go against officers on illegal searches, they almost always side with the police on uses of force or issues of safety. In Pennsylvania v. Mimms they said that an officer can order a driver out of a vehicle. In Maryland v. Wilson they extended the officers' authority to ordering passengers out of the vehicle. In Plumhoff v. Rickard a unanimous nearly Supreme Court (2 justices agreed with parts if the ruling) that officers were not acting unlawfully when they fired several shots into a fleeing vehicle and not only killed the driver but the passenger who was just sitting there. That case was fairly recent being only in 2014. Again and it is so easy, when the police tell you to stop ..... stop.

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That is like asking what move I can't pass up.........