tvc184

On a side note, solicitation of murder in TX carries up to life in prison. Simply asking about murder for hire is equal to an actual murder even if the murder is never even attempted.

That is correct.... mostly. If you pay someone to kill another person, it is not just Murder but Capital Murder and death sentence eligible. If a woman pays someone to kill her husband and it happens, her minimum penalty is life without parole.

​The money is okay (pretty good actually, according to where you work) but any officer that works for the money is in the wrong business anyway. I won't reject any pay raise but we aren't being mistreated. Police in this country probably make about 50 million public contacts a month. The amount of people abused or have their rights violated is exceedingly small. If you count just arrests, the FBI reports a bit over 12 million a year. That is 250,00 arrests per week on average or about 33,000 per day. That is just arrests so the officer is using some kind of force even if it is the minimal force of simply handcuffing someone. Considering the shear volume, actual improper uses of force is minuscule. Even many that are shown on video or the ones in the national news are actually lawful uses of force. Examples are Ferguson, MO and NY, NY. Looking into the accusations, we find that the amount of force was within the law and sometimes (such as NY) the use of force is lawful but against the departments own restrictions put in place such as no choke holds (correctly called lateral vascular neck restraint which does not choke). As the NY example, the hold is a viable use of force option and is still taught in many schools. It is politically incorrect however because "it doesn't look good". Ride-alongs help and in fact many officer candidates and eventual officers started by riding with a friend or just going to an agency that allows it without knowing any officers. It is much different than is what is portrayed in movies and the evening news. I encourage people to ride with officers. I also encourage them if possible to go through live action use of force and deadly force training like we have seen lately by community leaders that have protested police actions but then when put through the training, often change their mind. Some such videos are on the internet.

I have no clue in the current incident. Being friendly to bad people is a common police interview technique. It is not used in every case and it does not always work. Most of it depends on the suspect and their mentality. Whether it is fear, deals, good cop/bad cop and other techniques, there are many ways to get cooperation from suspects. What will almost never work is trying to play hard ball with them on the way to jail. If an officer starts screaming at a guy after an arrest and tells him that he is going to do everything in his power to put him away for life or get the death sentence, the guy is likely going to clam up and that part of the investigation is over. Again, if a patrol officer reads a guy Miranda and the guy invokes his right to an attorney or remain silent (or even without Miranda), a detective can no longer legally undo that. If a guy tells an arresting patrol officer that he wants his attorney, it is illegal for a detective to see the guy later and tell him that the street cop is a jerk and an idiot and then ask the suspect if he wants to change his mind and talk.

If you count being shot at (watching the shots fired at me, not just hearing shots nearby), my partner shooting and killing a guy about 10 feet in front of me and me shooting at someone (that was holding a gun to my head trying to pull the trigger), I have been involved in five shooting incidents.

A few years ago when I was in detectives we were called out to a brutal murder. A guy broke into a home and then raped and murdered a young woman. In the terms of the street, he “lawyered up” and demanded his right to remain silent. So he sat there while we booked him and completed some of the paperwork. He was complaining of being hungry so my partner and I, without telling him, went and got him a Quarter Pounder with cheese meal deal. After he ate it and after he finished, he started crying. He started saying how nice we were to him after what he was accused of. He then recanted his request to remain silent. We had to record him saying that it was he that re-initiated conversation because once a person invokes a right, the police cannot even ask him again to reconsider. After a guy says that he wants to remain silent or a lawyer we cannot go back in an hour later and ask if he has changed his mind. Once invoked, the right stands unless “he” changes his mind without prompting. So he then made a voluntary statement of the entire murder or basically a full confession. What if we had social media 20 years ago or 24 hour media that is running out of stories and the headlines screamed, "LOCAL OFFICERS BUY BRUTAL KILLER A HAMBURGER". Would the family be mad that we treated this killer nicely in our custody after he very brutally killed a relative? Maybe. Looking at the results, would they be mad that without any abuse or violating any person’s rights that we were able to get a full confession? It is easy for those on the outside of an investigation to point fingers when in reality they have absolutely no knowledge is what is being done or why. Just like the ongoing investigation of the two escapees in NY, I am sure the woman co-conspirator is cooperating and not because the cops are being mean and abusive toward her. The old saying goes that you can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar and sometimes that applies to very serious police investigations. It is like taking a confession from a child molester (what I did for two years) and telling him/her that you understand where he/she is coming from. So while it is easy to yell, “OH MY GOD the police bought this despicable person a hamburger!!!”… is it because they felt sorry for him or were simply trying to solve a despicable crime with that honey?My partner and I were able to help solve a fairly heinous crime doing just what you accuse these officers of not being very bright for doing.

​Why?

​Somewhere in NY. I don't recall any firefighters being murdered in Newton or the area.

​So if one says that we should have guns and one says that we shouldn't, are they both wrong?

​Tragic but old news. Wasn't a couple of years or so ago that a guy set his house on fire and shot at firefighters and police as they arrived?

My first shooting incident was a suicidal subject that called in on himself and opened fire on me when I arrived. This is not a new deal but fortunately only happens no more than a couple of times a year.

​ From your article.... "Detroit police believe two weapons were involved and that one man may have been the intended target. The semi-automatic guns have not been recovered and the assistant chief is fuming that no one is talking." Sounds like a routine investigation to me. Welcome to my world.

Also since the topic of insanity will come up, the SC law is almost identical to TX. The burden of proof is on the defendant. That differs from some laws where the burden is on the government to prove that a person is not insane. To be insane you have to not know the difference between right or wrong. Blaming other people as this guy did and fleeing to get away by itself (in my opinion) proves that he knew the difference between right and wrong. Also almost exactly like TX, the SC statute says that merely being antisocial or just a mean criminal is not proof of insanity. Just because the guy is a jerk (in lieu of profanity that seems to fit but against the rules) does not mean that he is insane. (C) Evidence of a mental disease or defect that is manifested only by repeated criminal or other antisocial conduct is not sufficient to establish the defense of insanity.

​I just looked up the South Carolina law on murder. For just the typical murder like two guys get in a bar fight or you argue with your neighbor, it is a minimum of 30 years with life as a maximum. If there are "aggravating circumstances" and the jury does not issue the death sentence, the mandatory sentence is life without parole or as they put it, "until the death of the defendant without the possibility of parole". As far as the "aggravating circumstances", any of these listed will give life without parole or death. It appears to me that he violated at least these three circumstances and only proving one of them will result in death or life. (3) The offender by his act of murder knowingly created a great risk of death to more than one person in a public place by means of a weapon or device which normally would be hazardous to the lives of more than one person. 9) Two or more persons were murdered by the defendant by one act or pursuant to one scheme or course of conduct. (11) The murder of a witness or potential witness committed at any time during the criminal process for the purpose of impeding or deterring prosecution of any crime. It appears to me that this guy will get at least 9 life sentences without parole as a minimum. The governor has already called for this to be a death penalty case and I am sure that is what they will go for. Either would be good for me. Death seems very fitting but a 21 year old sentenced to an 8 foot by 8 foot cell 23 hours a day for the next 60 years seems fitting also.

I think everyone is making fun of him.

Racism.

Really, 52 years ago? Why not go back 8 more years to the Montgomery bus boycott or better yet, the Civil War?

Feel free to name all the instances where a multiple murder suspect got off with light sentences. I hate to tell you but the jury will come from the same pool of people whether in state or federal court. How come the feds did not step in and allowed the east Texas good ol' boys in the James Byrd case to try it instead of in federal court? since you appear to be so sure of a weak outcome of the state trial, how much do you want to bet that he either gets life or death?

The SC law allows life in prison and the death penalty. Does federal law allow more or even up to the same thing? Does the federal law of demand a minimum sentence that is more than South Carolina? Can it be that the state jury which is picked from the exact same people as a federal jury, would give more to the federal prosecutor than to the district attorney? This is nothing but a political ploy in order to look like somebody is doing sonething. Apparently some people fall for it. I guess that's why it's done and why is politics. We have a perfect example that we can look back on and it is local. Did the federal government prosecute the three man that killed James Byrd or did they let Texas just handle the case and give out their death penalty? They did not need to spend several months and a huge chunk of money to prove what everybody else knew.

What is probably the most sick and cruel part of this (as if the crime itself is not enough) is that he (according to current reports) walked in and asked to join the Bible study. Here is a white kid that walked into a traditionally black church and asked to participate and he was probably welcomed with open arms. That almost seems more heartbreaking than the horrific incident itself. The very people that he was about to slaughter welcomed him in and very likely might have hugged him. He repaid their kindness with the death penalty. Hopefully the state will return the favor.

​True but did you overlook the fact that SC has no hate crime law? If you missed it or ignored it, such a finding does not matter since it can add nothing to the case. And honestly, do you think this guy will get anything short of the death sentence or life without parole?

I think it is obvious that it was a crime of hate from the moment it made the news. Whether he hated religion in general, Christians in particular or hated by race it was still a crime perpetrated due to rage against someone. I can't figure out the attempt to make this a hate crime in the legal aspect however. It is meaningless. South Carolina does not have a hate crime statute. There is nothing that "hate" can do to further the penalty. SC has the death penalty and this guy qualifies for it. You cannot enhance death any more than the penalty itself. It is a political stunt that will burn resources just to say it was done. Someone wants to pound their chest and say, "Yep, after a five month and $850,000 investigation, it was just as we thought. This was done for racial purposes". I can save them them money. It was a race crime. Now give him the death sentence that requires no affirmative finding of "hate".

I has always been a good idea. This isn't the first church shooting in the national news.

In custody.

Most of these mass shootings end up with the shooter committing suicide on scene, being captured on scene or committing suicide away from the scene but a short time later. This guy appears to have shot and ran. We've serial killers and mass murders. I can't ever remember a serial mass murderer. Hopefully this guy isn't a new type of crazy.