tvc184

[quote name="dugout6" post="773082" timestamp="1268031058"] The last time we had a fish kill due to cold weather in the Sabine Lake and Pass area it was obvious.  The fish could be seen floating on the surface or struggling near the surface.  Due to the prop wash of the large ships in our area the lethargic or dead fish are pushed up to the surface and are easily seen.  Just as reminder, it is illegal to boat fish that have succumbed to extreme weather conditions.          [/quote] I am not sure that I would want to boat a floating fish, I don't care what caused it. It is a law without a purpose as far as I am concerned.

[quote name="thetragichippy" post="765295" timestamp="1266983967"] when the weather gets above say 60 degrees........I'm plannin a trip with you and TVC........should make for some awesome conversation! [/quote] I think that he is trying to say that I talk too much.....  :D

I was thinking about maybe getting a .17HM2. Both the .17HMR and the .17HM2 are basically replacements for the .22 in its various versions. I have not shot one but have talked to a few people and read a lot of personal reviews and they are a bit more accurate than the .22LR with better range. Their accuracy will reach out past 100 yards and they hit harder for small game. The .22 has the advantage of readily available ammo at half the price of the .17's. If you plink a lot then the .22 is probably a more go to gun (not an issue since you already have the .17). If a person is actually hunting squirrels, rabbits or varmints then the .17 is likely a better option. As far as the fun factor and plinking, the .17's don't come in semi-autos. Most people know how fun the .22 autos are to shoot and within their plinking range, they are great. As for cheaper scopes, after doing a lot of research a couple of years ago and wanting a cheap scope for my Marlin 1894c .357 magnum rifle, I went with a Simmons. I have Leupold and Nikons on my other deer rifles and they are fairly pricey. The Simmons scope has been on the rifle through two seasons and has not had a problem. It is probably the best $35 that I have spent on a hunting item.

[quote name="rip2506" post="751132" timestamp="1264718356"] Wow all this Beautiful .25-06 Glory. Short Story: My Grandfather was an astute and avid deer hunter who ran into some bad luck. Some heathen wiped out his entire gun collection. He replaced All of a dozen or more of those stolen rifles with One bull barrelled Ruger M77 in .25-06.  When I got it I was a little disappointed it was not a more popular .270. Now several deer later, I am a Happy camper and realize the old guy knew what he was doing. So much so I bought my nephew one. [/quote] But what can the 25-06 do that can't be done with .260, .264, .270, .280, .308, 7mm-08, 30-06.......... ? Again, is one head and shoulders above the others for taking of whitetails?

[quote name="BMTSoulja1" post="750914" timestamp="1264695927"] I can honestly say that Central playing in Vidor now 4 years since comming in this district have never been a problem.   People are nice there.  But they are pationate about their football, as any fan is supposed to. [/quote] And it's not like it is one trip every other year for football. Central has traveled to Vidor several times a year for basketball, baseball, volleyball, softball, soccer, etc. Out of the many of trips to Vidor in the last few years since Vidor has been in the district, has there ever been any problems? If so they sure kept it quiet.

[quote name="westend1" post="750355" timestamp="1264608939"] Just curious.  Did anybody get ticketed this year for one of the 12 3'4" bucks, or the spike with hidden kickers?  Just wondering how lenient(or strict) the wardens were this year.  I haven't heard anything about it. [/quote] Looking at some hunting forums, it is according to where you were, according to the warden and "probably" according to the situation/attitude of the violator. I did hear of some people being ticketed and others being warned.

[quote name="643" post="750292" timestamp="1264603909"] [quote author=injun link=topic=61122.msg750105#msg750105 date=1264563058] [quote author=westend1 link=topic=61122.msg750088#msg750088 date=1264562500] Chill chief,   The whole point of the new regs was to stop the killing of young bucks.   I hope it is working.  If it is, the deer processing business should drop for a couple of years.   If it didn't drop some, then the regs aren't working.  Get my drift?          ::) ::) [/quote]I do get your drift , but try to understand mine..I've shot my share of really nice bucks with rifles and archery equipment (not crossbows either) my point is if I'm not intrested in getting another trophy  for my wall why limit me to a spike or a 13" buck..Let me make the choice... [/quote]Well shoot a cpl of Does then, besides some are smarter than most bucks... [/quote] The problem with that is that does are not generally allowed on public land. I disagree with those rules but they are the rules. The does there probably need to be managed and I have thought that they should have a public drawing or maybe give limited ones out on the actual days of the hunt in a national or state park/forest. Much like you check in at duck/goose hunting locations. Have state biologists hand doe permits out the day of the hunts so that they can somewhat control the taking of does and not have a wholesale slaughter of basically unregulated land. I also think that to do such a program would not only help the herd but lighten up a lot of the pressure on the buck population for people that want to see a result of their time hunting. For people that say they are on a meat hunt and could care less about horns, I have no problem with that but the state hurts their own cause by not letting does be taken as that meat.

[quote name="injun" post="750105" timestamp="1264563058"] I do get your drift , but try to understand mine..I've shot my share of really nice bucks with rifles and archery equipment (not crossbows either) my point is if I'm not intrested in getting another trophy  for my wall why limit me to a spike or a 13" buck..[b][size=12pt]Let me make the choice...[/size][/b] [/quote] If that is an argument, I guess you want to make your own rules for everything. Let me make my own choice.

[quote name="injun" post="750060" timestamp="1264560848"] You also might want to check with the local deer processing markets and ask them if this new law affected their buisnesses this year [/quote] My processor said that he was down about 30 or more deer from last year.

[quote name="westend1" post="749958" timestamp="1264545893"] You can't keep a 12" trout or an 18" redfish either.  Does it bother you that they are also making you a trophy fisherman?  It's good for the herd.    Isn't that reason enough? [/quote] That pretty much tells it all right there. A 13" (legal in AR counties) is far from a trophy buck. That is a term that is used by people who are against the AR's that is basically irrelevant. I am sure that there were lots (or a majority) of bucks killed this year that were legal and not what anyone would call a trophy. It comes from the old mindset that "I have a right to kill any deer that I see". Or "I saw a buck so I should be able to kill it". Really? It is very simply. Just like fish have a size limit to help guarantee maturity, now whitetails will have the same protection in many counties. Most hunting leases use that kind of standard (at a very minimum) anyway. I wonder what the average size of bucks killed on leases is compared to public land. Is it because the deer are bigger in the next pasture or it is because the people on most leases don't shoot Bambi? It reminds me of when I started bass fishing in the early 70's. The state law was a 10" bass. I fished a couple of tournaments and it had to be a huge 12" bass to be legal. Then the state stepped in and said the minimum limit was 14". We were really mad. How are we going to catch such fish? Was the state crazy and just trying to end bass fishing? It is a rare bass that will grow over 14" and reach "lunker" status. Not hardly. What we once thought of as a huge fish is now a bare minimum at 14". I look now at a 10" fish as almost a fingerling and can't believe that we ever kept anything that small. Did it stop bass fishing? Did it make it almost impossible to catch a legal bass? Not hardly and quite to the contrary. It will be the same with whitetail bucks and no, the 13" limit is not perfect but needed.

[quote name="Buccaneer#3" post="748978" timestamp="1264378461"] that stinks [/quote] No kidding. I could smell it all the way to Nederland.

[quote name="Champ  Kind" post="747284" timestamp="1264083852"] All i know is that instead of trying to look tough the soccer teams have really put all unecessary factors aside and really become close. There's just something about the sport in itself that really can get into people and make them feel like a family and really reeeaallllyyy get into the game. if anyone has any trouble understanding the feeling go to a MLS game and watch the field disappear beneath the confetti, watch the stand erupt al the 39 foot flage shoot up and fans practically lose their voice off of a single goal.  In my opinion and its just my opinion Soccer, futbol, Football however you'd like to call it is one if not the greatest of all sports. if anyone is annoyed by my opinion then they can always yell at me as well as the majority of planet Earth. [/quote] People lose their voice off of a single goal because the sport is so boring that the single goal might mean the game. A single run in the first inning of a baseball game is important but not likely the game winner. The same for the first bucket in a game of basketball and so on. If people like it, great. Nothing wrong with the sport. It is probably more exciting to watch that PBA bowling. It is the most popular sport worldwide simply out of convenience. It takes a ball and any field to play on. Not a whole lot of equipment is needed like many other sports. Soccer in effect, is no different than basketball, hockey, polo, lacrosse, etc. The object is to put the ball/puck into the other person's goal. Soccer is just about the only version of the same game that only requires a single ball and nothing more. CAVEAT: I am sure the game is far from boring for its fans. To them, watching a ball go back and forth like a ping pong ball for a period without a score is exciting. I suppose every time the ball starts heading toward the other goal there is some apprehension involved. For everyone else, it appears as boring as watching grass grow. To each his own.

[quote name="barniLs09" post="745963" timestamp="1263873045"] This topic has perked up recently so I thought Id make a thread here and see what everyone thought....So what do you think? [/quote] Think about what, bowhunting? I am making a trip to south Texas in two weekends to bowhunt for hogs and javelinas.

I have heard of the knock a horn off but I also have heard of an arrest for that reason. Anyone can violate the law and they had people violating it long before there were any restrictions. I don't even have issues with people that killed young deer as it was legal. More power to them. I just wanted a tougher standard and the state has finally complied. I truly believe that in the coming years everyone is going to see mature deer that they would never have seen had the AR's not been in place. When people start actually seeing mature deer and not having to settle for the year old 4 pointer, they will not want to go back to the old ways. I have talked to some people in other parts of the state that have had AR's for a few years and they are seeing way better and more deer.

So they said basically what I did. Some herds are weak due to killing good genetic bucks at a young age, it is hard to come up with any standards on cull/age of bucks and the better genetics will win over time (if enough does are killed) (if we let the herd get more than one year old).

[quote name="bronco1" post="743558" timestamp="1263426541"] I assked the question about culls on the TPWD website, here is the link: [Hidden Content] [/quote] Are they going to respond to you directly?

[quote name="bronco1" post="743554" timestamp="1263425736"] The sooner the better, not sure when but I know it is an issue they will have to address. Once you have more and better breeding stock, you have to cull the less desireable deer to produce the best herd. [/quote] How do you come up with a rule to enforce culls though? Simply state "age" as the factor and educate the public? Hope that most hunters can age deer on the hoof? The only thing about the spike or 13" rules is that you can look at an easy measurable standard. Just like a fish, you can bring out the tape measure and see if it is correct. There is easily visual certainty of the kill. They go with the 13" rule simply because of the width of the ears as a guide. As far as killing culls to improve the herd, I won't disagree with that but we have always been able to kill all the culls we wanted (with the proper number of tags) and yet we still have lots of them roaming the woods. With hundreds of years of hunting with no restrictions, we don't seem to have done a very good job of insuring good genetic deer. I think much of that comes from the kill any buck mentality that many people (Many bearbryant, not "all"). I think that if we kill enough does (buck to doe ratio) and let deer mature as they should, nature will take care of itself somewhat. When there aren't 7 does per every buck then the dominant bucks will do most of the breeding. As it is now (especially on public land) with does not being killed, one dominant buck in an area can't breed or protect all of the does. We have lots of inferior bucks breeding does that would otherwise not get to. I'm all for killing culls.... I am just not sure how they are going to do it or if they are ever going to do it.

[quote name="bronco1" post="742676" timestamp="1263319012"] That is a problem but with a little time I believe TPWD will address that issue. We have a really good fish and game dept. but it's not flawless. As the public gets more comfortable with the antler restrictions, they will eventually include a cull buck. [/quote] The AR's have been in place for several years. I wonder when they are going to get around to it on allowing some means of taking culls.

[quote name="bearbryant" post="742851" timestamp="1263339365"] The point I was making was that I was not a "shoot anything that moves" hunter.  And as i said I'm giving the 13 inch rule time to work. [/quote] But for every ethical hunter in this area there are others to match that aren't. I don't see how anyone can deny that east Texas has a problem with people killing very young deer that generally doesn't happen in other parts of the state.

[quote name="PNG Proud" post="742894" timestamp="1263346438"] Has anyone started fishing the reefs yet?  This is about the time when it starts to get hot, and with the intense cold, they may actually be stacked up there RIGHT NOW! [/quote] Or dead. I've heard that  there was some fish kill due to the extreme cold, especially farther south. Anyone know of any fish kill locally?

[quote name="bearbryant" post="742425" timestamp="1263262168"] Well I disagree with you on that.  I've let many many small 8pt walk along with 4pts and 6pts through the years.  I've also taken 1.5 year old 6pts and ain't ashamed to admit it.  I'm a hunter not a trophy hunter.   I've been able to kill 8 bucks year for the last several years and could have yet usually take 2 bucks between me, my two boys, and my wife... all hunters. Still I'm embracing the 13 inch rule.. I got enough hunters in my family that there is no possible way I can't end up with 5-6 deer every year.  Now if they make the spikes illegal I'd be in a bind. [/quote] You say that you disagree and then say that you have taken 1.5 year old 6 points. That was exactly what I was saying. Passing some doesn't change that fact. I am all for legal hunting and what you were doing was legal. I am just glad that the state has now finally stepped in to manage the land as I think the hunters should have all along. Within a couple of years, the same deer that are being shot now at a 6 point will be heavier 8 pointers or better.

westend1 - The favorite gun I have is a Ruger #1 in .22-250.  It's a great shooting rifle, but hard to justify when you could get a Remington 700 for [b]MUCH[/b] less. I have a Remington 700 synthetic stock in .270 and a Savage Model 11 with the AccuTrigger in .223. Both shoot 3/4" groups at 100 yards. I love a lot of other guns and would enjoy having them. For my hunting purposes though, I can't drag my billfold open for something that I really like mostly to look at. Anyone wishing to donate however..............

The TC's are great guns. I just can't see myself spending as much on an interchangeable barrel as I an buy an entire new gun that the equal in accuracy and function. If I get one though, it will probably have to be donated by a rich relative that I am unaware of. I look at it much like the Ruger No.1. A beautiful rifle that I can't bring myself to buying because I don't need a $1,000 single shot rifle that will kill no more deer than my other "cheap" guns.

[quote name="bearbryant" post="742005" timestamp="1263176339"] I still dont know a soul other than outlaws that shoots anything that moves.  [/quote] I know some. They shoot what was legal deer last year such as 1.5 year old 4 and 6 pointers. Completely legal deer but haven't been allowed to mature at all. If it's brown, it's down. This year the east Texas restrictions made it illegal but before then, a deer was a deer was a deer and age or size didn't matter. That is what I am talking about and that constitutes a large percentage of even legal hunters.

For some reason I have missed this thread. I would like to see an early Sabine Lake tourny but think it might ought to wait until March or so. With this brutal winter, I am not sure if I want to get on the water right now.  ;D