mat

[quote name="smitty" post="1019203" timestamp="1308394826"] You can have in-house contractors that are there if/when needed.  But we wouldn't have to pay for benefits.  It's done were I work.  [quote author=mat link=topic=84302.msg1018982#msg1018982 date=1308314652] [quote author=Penny link=topic=84302.msg1018945#msg1018945 date=1308279649] Smitty is right on about contracting some maintenance activities, he is right, that is a lower cost way to maintain facilities.  He's right about the reduced overhead that you experience when you don't have full time personnel on the books.  That is not a popular position, but it is a fact.  However, Smitty, we can make these cuts, contract maintenance, have parents drive their kids to sporting events to avoid fuel, reduce administrators salaries, eliminate administration through retirements and attrition, which essentially comes down to have other people step up and take on more leadership and responsibility, which can happen actually with improved results.  Smitty, I have personally implemented and seen positive results from the very actions you are discussing.  But at the same time, I've also had to make multi-million dollar decisions over maintaining with cost, or replacing with capital, critical facilities for the long term good of an objective.  You cannot sway my opinion here.  I know where you are coming from, I've navigated this maze many times before.  I'm sorry, you can nitpick the semantics and the minute details of what is going on and at times, you are right, but the bottom line is the long term need and the big picture, REQUIRES a bond to reduce the cost of running this school district.  When it is said that a bond will reduce taxes, that is the point, paying for old broken facilities versus addressing them with a financed long term solution, is the most financially prudent decision.  A bond WILL REDUCE COSTS, which EQUATES to LOWER TAXES.... that's right Smitty, LOWER TAXES.  This isn't ignorant kids WANTING things, this is the decision of professionals who have analyzed the situation.  Can we make cuts, ABSOLUTELY, will it address the problem, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO.  The question is, do you want to address the issue, or make a point about how you personally think things should be done, at the expense of ELIMINATING this community.  I'm hearing your points, and yes, people in authority should listen to the ideas you have, but ABSOLUTELY, POSITIVELY, what you are suggesting, while at the heart good ideas, they WILL NOT address the LONG TERM needs of this community.  This is not up for discussion.  If the people of this community fall for the propoganda that killed the first bond, then we deserve to be buried with other short sighted failures from history.  There will be no upgrades of our sports or extra-cirricular facilities in the next bond.  It will be about building new schools.  Any upgrades to sporting facilities should be separately voted upon.   [/quote] In almost all cases it is not cheaper to contract out maintenance if a district’s maintenance department is run correctly and the department has the budget and support of the district. I can give plenty of info to support my opinion if needed. However, in some cases it could but more economical to contract some services such as food service or transportation. [/quote] [/quote] There’s a lot more to consider when maintaining a school district than maintaining a plant or any other type facility.

[quote name="Penny" post="1018945" timestamp="1308279649"] Smitty is right on about contracting some maintenance activities, he is right, that is a lower cost way to maintain facilities.  He's right about the reduced overhead that you experience when you don't have full time personnel on the books.  That is not a popular position, but it is a fact.  However, Smitty, we can make these cuts, contract maintenance, have parents drive their kids to sporting events to avoid fuel, reduce administrators salaries, eliminate administration through retirements and attrition, which essentially comes down to have other people step up and take on more leadership and responsibility, which can happen actually with improved results.  Smitty, I have personally implemented and seen positive results from the very actions you are discussing.  But at the same time, I've also had to make multi-million dollar decisions over maintaining with cost, or replacing with capital, critical facilities for the long term good of an objective.  You cannot sway my opinion here.  I know where you are coming from, I've navigated this maze many times before.  I'm sorry, you can nitpick the semantics and the minute details of what is going on and at times, you are right, but the bottom line is the long term need and the big picture, REQUIRES a bond to reduce the cost of running this school district.  When it is said that a bond will reduce taxes, that is the point, paying for old broken facilities versus addressing them with a financed long term solution, is the most financially prudent decision.  A bond WILL REDUCE COSTS, which EQUATES to LOWER TAXES.... that's right Smitty, LOWER TAXES.  This isn't ignorant kids WANTING things, this is the decision of professionals who have analyzed the situation.  Can we make cuts, ABSOLUTELY, will it address the problem, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO.  The question is, do you want to address the issue, or make a point about how you personally think things should be done, at the expense of ELIMINATING this community.  I'm hearing your points, and yes, people in authority should listen to the ideas you have, but ABSOLUTELY, POSITIVELY, what you are suggesting, while at the heart good ideas, they WILL NOT address the LONG TERM needs of this community.  This is not up for discussion.  If the people of this community fall for the propoganda that killed the first bond, then we deserve to be buried with other short sighted failures from history.  There will be no upgrades of our sports or extra-cirricular facilities in the next bond.  It will be about building new schools.  Any upgrades to sporting facilities should be separately voted upon.   [/quote] In almost all cases it is not cheaper to contract out maintenance if a district’s maintenance department is run correctly and the department has the budget and support of the district. I can give plenty of info to support my opinion if needed. However, in some cases it could but more economical to contract some services such as food service or transportation.

[quote name="smitty" post="1018956" timestamp="1308283002"] PS - How much do "free" lunches cost the school district?  There are ALWAYS areas of cutting that can be discussed!! [quote author=dawgnut link=topic=84302.msg1018916#msg1018916 date=1308274032] Enlighten us smitty you are always talking about other ways to handle the school finance situation, give us one alternative that has been tried in the USA that has worked successfully in a school district as large or larger than NISD. You always talk about the pro-bond folks coming up with a solution, let's hear one from you. But I forget, you only have questions not answers. [/quote] [/quote] Nothing. Free lunches are not funded by districts.

[quote name="smitty" post="1018928" timestamp="1308276300"] Before you raise taxes, you cut first!  Give me some cuts then I'll listen to any thing you got to say about bonds! [quote author=mat link=topic=84302.msg1018918#msg1018918 date=1308274884] [quote author=smitty link=topic=84302.msg1018897#msg1018897 date=1308268329] throwing money at something doesn't solve the problem either.  But that's what prevails here.  Just trying to get people to think here that there may be a different way.  But hardly any good suggestions yet from the pro-bonders.  But that's what forums are for.  To discuss solutions. [quote author=mat link=topic=84302.msg1018761#msg1018761 date=1308227960] Smitty, your view of education is skewed. It’s not all about reduced spending. Sadly, districts have had to become competitive for student enrollment for operating funds. Anything they can do to attract and maintain enrollment and attendance is necessary to just to maintain state funding. Cutting many of the programs you propose will result in a loss of enrollment which results in a lack of funds. It’s counter productive. Kinda like McDonalds cutting fries from the menu to reducing costs. [/quote] [/quote] I can offer you several bond options with supportive reasoning but I am certain you would not acknowledge any of it so I’m not going to waste my time. You do have a point though. You weren’t the lone opposition during the last bond. There were a lot of Nederland folk that weren’t on board. [/quote] [/quote] Smitty, please pay attention. NISD has already made budget reductions in the last few years. Once they know how much the state funding will get cut they will make additonal reductions accordingly. They are like all the other districts. There funding is not clear.

[quote name="smitty" post="1018897" timestamp="1308268329"] throwing money at something doesn't solve the problem either.  But that's what prevails here.  Just trying to get people to think here that there may be a different way.  But hardly any good suggestions yet from the pro-bonders.  But that's what forums are for.  To discuss solutions. [quote author=mat link=topic=84302.msg1018761#msg1018761 date=1308227960] Smitty, your view of education is skewed. It’s not all about reduced spending. Sadly, districts have had to become competitive for student enrollment for operating funds. Anything they can do to attract and maintain enrollment and attendance is necessary to just to maintain state funding. Cutting many of the programs you propose will result in a loss of enrollment which results in a lack of funds. It’s counter productive. Kinda like McDonalds cutting fries from the menu to reducing costs. [/quote] [/quote] I can offer you several bond options with supportive reasoning but I am certain you would not acknowledge any of it so I’m not going to waste my time. You do have a point though. You weren’t the lone opposition during the last bond. There were a lot of Nederland folk that weren’t on board.

[quote name="Old Three Balls" post="1018836" timestamp="1308250408"] 3 of us kept 18 trout, 2 reds, and 1 flounder last night.  not too bad :) [/quote] Keith Lake?

[quote name="shermdog" post="1018814" timestamp="1308240915"] I have a feeling that Smitty is in Austin working to "fix the budget".  I just got this email from a teacher organization, and if it passes you will not need to worry about passing a bond.  There will not be anyone to teach the kids. Here is a synopsis of the bills: Here is how [b]Senate Bill 8[/b] would hurt teachers and public schools:     Cuts teacher salaries in two ways:     Allows districts to order furloughs of teachers and administrators for as many as six non-instructional days and reduce salaries accordingly.     Permanently repeals the 2009 salary floor for returning teachers. This would allow districts to reduce pay for all teachers.     Freezes the state minimum salary schedule at 2010-11 levels.     Changes the deadline for notification of contract non-renewal from the 45th day before the end of instruction to the last day on which spring standardized tests can be administered. The same change applies to notification of termination of probationary teachers. This would give laid-off teachers less time to find jobs for the next school year.     Allows school districts to declare financial emergencies for purposes of imposing reductions in force at any time and eliminates seniority as a factor in determining dismissals when RIFs are implemented.     Repeals a terminated teacher’s right to a hearing before an independent hearing officer.     Adds another provision for districts to seek a waiver from the 22-1 class size cap for K-4. [b]And then HB 17:[/b] House Bill 17 by Rep. Bill Callegari of Houston, which also is on Thursday’s House calendar, would repeal the state minimum salary schedule for teachers, counselors, nurses and librarians. This would allow districts to set their own pay levels for all teachers, as long as they are paid $27,320. Read into that that a 20 year teacher could be paid $27,320.  WOW! Is that responsible? As I can see it, Smitty and the legislature is against [b]KIDS, TEACHERS[/b] and [b]SCHOOLS.[/b] Perception is reality.  I feel sorry for the students and residents of Nederland with people like this fighting against you.  To me the CARE stance is one of irresponsibility and selfishness.  The kids you educate today, are being prepared for jobs that do not even exist yet.  It makes me mad, when someone who has already reaped the benefits of an education, refuses to pay it forward and educate the next generation.   [/quote] It's disturbing to know some of the Bills/ideas that are floating around but it is too soon to get worked up about the details because not all of it has a chance to pass. At least I hope not.

[quote name="liltex" post="1018749" timestamp="1308203261"] Offshore once again 6-15 on a 12 hr 60-80 mile trip w/galveston party boat the New Buccaneer.It was a windy day w/some swells to 6' & steady 5's.We made the best of it but w/a stiff current and 82 anglers aboard it was a tangled mess most of the day.Fish caught that were legal length about 30 snapper w/2 over 10# and the rest small.7 kingfish-2 over 20#-1 warsaw grouper 24#.Alot of lost fish that cut mono leaders.We moved locations about 5 times and could not find real good action @ any.We had plenty of tacos(breakfast) that more than a doz.folk spewed out for chum early ride out first 40 mi or so then winds decreased a little.It was a bust out there today ::) :o 8) [/quote] They've been showing some good reports the last couple of weeks.

Smitty, your view of education is skewed. It’s not all about reduced spending. Sadly, districts have had to become competitive for student enrollment for operating funds. Anything they can do to attract and maintain enrollment and attendance is necessary to just to maintain state funding. Cutting many of the programs you propose will result in a loss of enrollment which results in a lack of funds. It’s counter productive. Kinda like McDonalds cutting fries from the menu to reducing costs.

[quote name="smitty" post="1018755" timestamp="1308214041"] How have what you have stated be considered painful?  A small cut here, a small cut there.  Maybe a dent.  But pretty soon it adds up.  The point is, NISD will survive these.  So the other point is -- why were not they done along time ago?  Humm???  [b]It's amazing the cuts that can be made and will never be missed[/b].  [quote author=Brubaker link=topic=84302.msg1018736#msg1018736 date=1308195367] [quote author=smitty link=topic=84302.msg1018713#msg1018713 date=1308178908] I've already stated a few.  I can, and will, name some more.  I just first need to know the diversity of thought from the pro-bonders.  All I'm getting so far is one trick pony's.  But I need to from you.  In this financial crisis, do you support touching extra-curricular activities?  [quote author=James Mosley link=topic=84302.msg1018533#msg1018533 date=1308092957] Smitty Can you give me, or us, 5 things you would cut that would solve all of Nederlands problems? Cut's that would put Nederland in a class by itself as a district leader. Simple 5 Waiting!!!!!!! [/quote] [/quote] Jardell, football coach took an administration position, he has not been backfilled.  Yeaman, softball coach to my knowledge has not been replaced after stepping down.  Charter bus expense along with travel budgets have been slashed as well.  I know these facts are tough to deal with Smitty, but here are some of the measures that an outsider is aware of, I'm sure there are more.  Fact remains, as painful as these cuts are to endure, they DO NOT make a DENT in the monies necessary to do what needs to be done.  Again, I want you to answer Dawgnut.  He is right, the bond would've lowered taxes.  I know that's hard for your narrow mind to comprehend., but that is afact, you go do your homework like you always tell us to do, and get  back to us.  I beleive it more everyday, like Penny said, YOU CAN't FIX STUPID.  Drop the act, and answer this question, but it will require you to put the kool aid down and drop the talking points.  The math as difficult as it may  be for some, is pretty simple.  [/quote] [/quote] Nobody said they wouldn't be missed. They're just neccessary in budget cruch time.

[quote name="smitty" post="1018531" timestamp="1308091446"] So, there hasn't been any cuts.  I think you just admitted to that.  So you take the easy solution and just raise taxes!!  No guts there!!    ;) [quote author=phunter308 link=topic=84302.msg1018108#msg1018108 date=1307925906] Smitty  30 + years of no new schools is a real big cut ,sacrifice or is it you do not have any facts to back up your bullsht. Everyone on here including people from other schools have shown that Nederland is in need of new facilities. The poor shape of the schools speak for them selves no disputing that. is it as you call it keeping up with the jones that our schools are in the shape they are. No throwing millions on repairs for a couple more years of life is not the answer. That would be like givn you a facelift but still the same bullsht keeps comn out and you wont live no longer. They have served thier just time and the citzens have got thier moneys worth for sure. I know nothing will change your outlook but I am reall interested in where you think cuts can be made ,specific cuts, and the dollar values of those cuts. I have yet in all the bullsht you tell any solutions. Give them to us so I can see where they can be made. I hope you can answer this truly without answering with a question. Try really hard please. I think our kids deserve the best no matter what. One day they may be the kids who decide what goes on in your life. [/quote] [/quote] As someone else posted, they have made budget cuts. This past year they reduced payroll by attrition, departure incentives and nonrenewal of some probationary comntracts. (among other things)

[quote name="smitty" post="1018542" timestamp="1308095773"] You, like many, are missing the point.  If it's such a critical need and you are truly concerned then you would do YOUR part by sending your part of the bond money.  Talking the talk but not walking the walk!      ::) [quote author=The-NHS link=topic=84302.msg1018537#msg1018537 date=1308093111] [quote author=smitty link=topic=84302.msg1018530#msg1018530 date=1308091239] Let me ask you one thing:  Did you figure out what your cost of the bond would have been and every year sent NISD a check for that amount?  We'll wait for your response!!     :-\ [/quote] Why would I send NISD a check every year when a bond wasn't passed? [b]I will gladly send a check when a bond passes.[/b] According to my awesome cellphone calculator I'm showing a little over 3,000. Whats your point? I'm not going to cut programs that are valuable to students and their education to fix window units so I'm not following you. I want a student facility overhaul and I'm not talking about turf and a scoreboard. I've answered your question once again. I eagerly await your enlightening reply. [/quote] [/quote] Silly silly silly. Even you know that nothing can be accomplished without collective resources. One person's check solves nothing.

Some districts had very high deductibles

[quote name="smitty" post="1016259" timestamp="1307153882"] Thanks for reminding me.  I'll check it. You hire more teachers BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT STUDENTS GO TO SCHOOL FOR!!  How can you in good conscious pour money into something like extra-curricular activities and at the same time lay off teachers?? [quote author=mat link=topic=84302.msg1016247#msg1016247 date=1307152254] [quote author=smitty link=topic=84302.msg1016223#msg1016223 date=1307142862] 1.7 mill is a lot of money.  [size=12pt][b]Wonder how many teachers we could hire[/b][/size] for what's REALLY important?  It's amazing how the status qua always wins for some.  I guess because it's easy!!    ;) PS -- I've got another question.  Thinking outside the box.  What is the maintenance budget fir NISD.  How many employees are there in this department.  Anyone know? [quote author=Penny link=topic=84302.msg1016067#msg1016067 date=1307074233] Okay, let's do this, let's cut the $1.7MM in extra cirriculars from the budget, and start making the necessary REPAIRS to 50 and 60 year old buildings.  In about 15 years or so, we'll have PATCHED these facilities up to a reasonable standard.... keep in mind, you're tens of millions spent and you haven't made a single IMPROVEMENT, you've only kept it from falling down around you.  All the while, anyone under the age of 60 who can get out of Nederland, will have done so, and NOBODY will be moving in to this town, because it still has OLD OUTDATED facilities and NO programs to kids who want to be ALL THEY CAN BE... we're just teaching Algebra and Conjugation at this point.  Now we have 70 and 80 year old facilities that we've MAINTAINED by cutting the programs that offer our kids a chance to enhance their education.  We've got OLD OUTDATED facilities, a shrinking tax base, plummeting property values, crime on the rise.... but thank God we didn't raise taxes a couple of hundred bucks.  Now you tell me, who needs to change their thinking here... who's the freakin IDIOT... cuz one of us is.   We pay the LOWEST tax rate in the area, I'm not going to WHINE and CRY because I have to pay for services rendered.  I'm not going to be a FREELOADER with absolutely NO VISION.  The bond that was proposed would've put us in a respectable tax rate compared to the rest of the area, not the highest.  Your ATTEMPT to paint this as a Government attempt to RAISE taxes is LAUGHABLE.  This isn't Washington, we get to see and DIRECTLY reap the benefits of the money that we contribute.  I know this is tough for you to diffentiate.  If you could enlightena and teach me on the points made above and how those are incorrect, I'm listening.  But the fact is that what you suggest WILL END this community.  End of Discussion. [/quote] [/quote] Bandkid posted the link of the NISD budget. Quit asking questions and do some of the research yourself like you do on political topics. I know; its just easier to ask the question. Answer this. If you cut extracurricular and save (according to you, which probably too high) $1.7 million, why would you hire more teachers? [/quote] [/quote] So its OK to over-staff by hiring more teachers?

[quote name="smitty" post="1016223" timestamp="1307142862"] 1.7 mill is a lot of money.  [size=12pt][b]Wonder how many teachers we could hire[/b][/size] for what's REALLY important?  It's amazing how the status qua always wins for some.  I guess because it's easy!!    ;) PS -- I've got another question.  Thinking outside the box.  What is the maintenance budget fir NISD.  How many employees are there in this department.  Anyone know? [quote author=Penny link=topic=84302.msg1016067#msg1016067 date=1307074233] Okay, let's do this, let's cut the $1.7MM in extra cirriculars from the budget, and start making the necessary REPAIRS to 50 and 60 year old buildings.  In about 15 years or so, we'll have PATCHED these facilities up to a reasonable standard.... keep in mind, you're tens of millions spent and you haven't made a single IMPROVEMENT, you've only kept it from falling down around you.  All the while, anyone under the age of 60 who can get out of Nederland, will have done so, and NOBODY will be moving in to this town, because it still has OLD OUTDATED facilities and NO programs to kids who want to be ALL THEY CAN BE... we're just teaching Algebra and Conjugation at this point.  Now we have 70 and 80 year old facilities that we've MAINTAINED by cutting the programs that offer our kids a chance to enhance their education.  We've got OLD OUTDATED facilities, a shrinking tax base, plummeting property values, crime on the rise.... but thank God we didn't raise taxes a couple of hundred bucks.  Now you tell me, who needs to change their thinking here... who's the freakin IDIOT... cuz one of us is.   We pay the LOWEST tax rate in the area, I'm not going to WHINE and CRY because I have to pay for services rendered.  I'm not going to be a FREELOADER with absolutely NO VISION.  The bond that was proposed would've put us in a respectable tax rate compared to the rest of the area, not the highest.  Your ATTEMPT to paint this as a Government attempt to RAISE taxes is LAUGHABLE.  This isn't Washington, we get to see and DIRECTLY reap the benefits of the money that we contribute.  I know this is tough for you to diffentiate.  If you could enlightena and teach me on the points made above and how those are incorrect, I'm listening.  But the fact is that what you suggest WILL END this community.  End of Discussion. [/quote] [/quote] Bandkid posted the link of the NISD budget. Quit asking questions and do some of the research yourself like you do on political topics. I know; its just easier to ask the question. Answer this. If you cut extracurricular and save (according to you, which probably too high) $1.7 million, why would you hire more teachers?

[quote name="smitty" post="1015143" timestamp="1306754563"] Shut down EDC?  Yes!!  Another waste of money.  Can you defend it with positive facts?  I'm willing to listen! What I'm gaining from you is that you LIKE to waste money.  And any discussion of what's REALLY important is foreign to you.  But stick around!  The teaching never stops!!  Whether or not one chooses to listen!!     ;) [quote author=Penny link=topic=84302.msg1014491#msg1014491 date=1306469097] OOOOPS, forgot to Smite you Smitty, my bad.  Okay, took care of that.  And, I so thank you for living in our little community.  Smitty, should we SHUT DOWN THE NEDERLAND EDC also? Just wonderin [/quote] [/quote] What is EDC?

[quote name="smitty" post="1014201" timestamp="1306406682"] I get it.  Unless someone has got to this person, maybe we'll have a "reasonable" bond issue.  But this remains to be seen.  Haven't had one yet!  Put it to a vote!! [quote author=dawgnut link=topic=84302.msg1014199#msg1014199 date=1306406283] [quote author=smitty link=topic=84302.msg1013994#msg1013994 date=1306328335] If you are confident, let's bring it to a vote!     ;) [quote author=dawgnut link=topic=84302.msg1013928#msg1013928 date=1306286141] smitty, how come your old "Don't Care" committee spokes person is now chairing the new bond committee? [/quote] [/quote] You missed the point smitty, you don't find it a little ironic when the person that was the mouth of the anti-bond group that hired an outside consultant to help destroy the last bond is now chairing the new bond committe? He still doesn't totaly get it, but he is learning. You can put all the money you want in maintenance of a 1956 Chevy and you still have a 1956 Chevy. You want to win races, you have to get a new car! But as always, you will not get the point because you don't want to get it, you are anti everything. [/quote] [/quote] A successful approach to planning a bond and it's passing is to recruit credible opponents of the bond to sit on the committee. By doing so the opponent becomes (as you like to put it on other threads) enlightened and the district also becomes more aware of the oppositions concerns. It’s a positive move. So, are you saying you would consider a reasonable bond?

[quote name="#1stangfan" post="1013121" timestamp="1305952820"] I never ran track but someone tell me exactly how much coaching is involved?  I am not trying to be funny but it seems like from the tack side of "track and field" it is "run like you are on fire".  Again...just wondering.  Because I had a good friend that would just show up at meets when I was in school and take home the goodies. [/quote] I understood your post just as you intended it. I don't know how others didn't.

[quote name="PN-G bandkid" post="1013906" timestamp="1306278725"] [quote author=smitty link=topic=84302.msg1013890#msg1013890 date=1306272959] I don't recall making a big deal out of PN-G's bond.  [/quote] Getting forgetful in your old age, smitty? ;) [quote author=smitty link=topic=81160.msg976161#msg976161 date=1299147536] Like I've said before, Superintendents, Principals and HC/AD make WAY too much money.  So, yes, there are areas that could be cut first.  I hear some bright person wants to spend 4.75 million on a gymatorium at CO Wilson.  The problem that has crept in, is that there is no regard for the taxpayers dollars.  Does one honestly think PNG needed that fancy football stadium??!!  This has happened all across the state. It doesn't educate one child or make you play better football.  But it does keep the taxpayers scratching their heads! [/quote] [quote author=smitty link=topic=82303.msg988993#msg988993 date=1301243558] I hope you make a ton of money to pay your share of the various taxing entities that are in debt up to their ears because of the SPENDING you say is not bad.  But if you don't mind spending that much on taxes, then I applaud you.  But trust me, I'll be there fighting to let you keep more of your money. Whether you like it or not!  Trust me again, your PN-G stadium would have been one thing I would have fought hard against!   ;) [/quote] [quote author=smitty link=topic=81160.msg978900#msg978900 date=1299495532] OK, 10.3 Million dollars.  That money for that stadium did not educate one child.  School districts are gonna suffer now because of foolish spending.  The old stadium could have been renovated.  But those making the decisions thought they needed a fine fancy stadium.  Taxpayers will be paying for this for a long time.  Again -- that money did NOT educate one child!!!!  You may have to lay off teachers now because you have not got the money.  But you have a nice stadium.  Priorities, people!  Priorities!! PS - PN-G bandkid -- How much does your head football coach, Principal, and Superintendent make??  Let's look at some more priorities!! [/quote] [quote author=smitty link=topic=81160.msg979167#msg979167 date=1299533518] Gentlemen, you pay for the bond by raising taxes on the people of Port Neches.  Which in turn taks the ability to continue to raise taxes if needed to hire/keep teachers.  Bond issues are just a round-a-bout way of tax increases.  Someone gonna pay!!  And bandkid, you said the bond was before the economy problem.  Teaching point:  If school districts had there priorities correct, then no one could look back and say what you said!!  Education first... [/quote] [Hidden Content] [Hidden Content] [/quote] Touche

Bonds are passed all the time including at least two local bonds in the most recent election. (None failed)  They may continue to fail in NISD because of narrow minded stingy opposition. WOC just passed a bond that will among other things allow them to construct a new athletic track. The existing track for their three time State champion track team is not safe enough to even practice on. According to your view, they should not pass a bond or rebuild the track and cut the track team. Once again and again and again, in the current economic climate I’m not suggesting a high end bond for all new schools. But a smaller bond to address facility necessities is not unreasonable.

[quote name="smitty" post="1013702" timestamp="1306232471"] [b]But, when it's time to cut, where do you cut first??[/b] [quote author=td link=topic=84302.msg1013633#msg1013633 date=1306186372] [quote author=smitty link=topic=84302.msg1012382#msg1012382 date=1305772864] There is not a narrow definition of education.  You know what's important and I know what's important.  And it's NOT a game!!  It's good if you can but it's still a GAME!!!!! [quote author=PN-G bandkid link=topic=84302.msg1012372#msg1012372 date=1305771953] [quote author=smitty link=topic=84302.msg1012310#msg1012310 date=1305758319] I have pretty well answered these questions in the past.  Here goes again:  You keep repairing when something happens.  So my question, as before, why were not the repairs kept up with??  No new taxes.  No new bonds until all questions are answered.  And all effort is put into getting the BEST EDUCATION while efficiently taking care of the tax payers dollars.  And if that means cutting extra-curricular activities, then so be it.  Threats of people moving to other school districts does not phase me.  If there are those that are just there to do extra-curricular activities, then we don't need them!!  I say give me your child, you'll have a safe LEARNING environment. We'll see to it that your child will get the best education around.  Plus we won't rape you as a tax payer!! [/quote] That depends on your definition of education; obviously, yours is very narrow. Academia, of course, is the primary focus of any school district. However, that is not all there is to education. Extracurricular activities do something that pure academics cannot. While academic knowledge is incredibly useful, what cannot be taught in the traditional classroom setting in any serious manner are values. Core values and skills such as teamwork, sportsmanship, work ethic, leadership, social behaviors, and other things of that sort simply cannot be imparted to a generation through a pen, paper, and textbook. Those are things that come to students through activities and groups such as the band, drill team, various sports teams, FCCLA, FFA, and National Honors Society. In order to round out and complete an education, those things must be involved. All the knowledge in the world will not help a group of students if they don't know how to act, work together, or accomplish a goal. [/quote] [/quote] Many a life lessons have been learned from playing those games. [/quote] [/quote] NISD has already begun the cuts by trimming personnel costs. You can review the current verses proposed budget for details. Draining the tax payers? I agree with Bandkid. A low to moderate tax increase is not draining.

[quote name="smitty" post="1013521" timestamp="1306159314"] Again -- In times of trouble you have to make changes.  This includes the way you think, or been programed to think about things.  Nederland does not have industry to continue business as usual.  This is what has got us in this situation.  Ignoring reality and trying to keep up with the Jones' cannot continue.   [b]One cannot also say that education is #1 but...[/b]  It either is or it's not.   [/quote] No one has ever said education is #1 or it not. Everyone agrees with that. Just another case of you putting words in someone’s mouth. This is what I see your view as. (Correct me if I’m wrong because I don’t want to put words in your mouth.) Priority #1 – Education only Priority #2 – Now new taxes under any circumstance. (I may have 1 & 2 out of order for you.) Priority #3 – There is no priority 3 FYI – judging by the condition of NISD facilities there is no “keeping up with the Jones”

[quote name="smitty" post="1013502" timestamp="1306154689"] Tunnel vision is wanting to hang on to something at the expense of what's REALLY important -- EDUCATION!! So, who cares about the kids.  Someone who says we need to concentrate on EDUCATION or someone who try's to hang on the status qua  and watch your district go down the tubes?  So, you are against using 1.7 mill for more and better teachers and building repairs??  And YOU are for what's good for the kids??    ??? Nothing you've offered will educate one child.  Everything I've said has!!      ;) [quote author=mat link=topic=84302.msg1013498#msg1013498 date=1306152997] [quote author=smitty link=topic=84302.msg1013494#msg1013494 date=1306151841] Let's just take this 1.7 mill figure.  How many teachers could we hire with that money?  How much repairs could we do with that money?  In times of trouble, [b]sometimes you have to think outside the box!![/b]  Saying business as usual will not cut it anymore!! [quote author=PN-G bandkid link=topic=84302.msg1013168#msg1013168 date=1305995572] [quote author=smitty link=topic=84302.msg1012764#msg1012764 date=1305882315] Does anyone here have the total budget for extra-curricular activities for Nederland ISD? [/quote] I don't know what it is now, but I know at one time NISD spent about $1.7 Million annually on athletics. Although this is a Nederland thread, I'd like to point out that in the same year PN-GISD spent half that since you love to pick on us as well. We also make more money from football ticket sales than Nederland... and just about everyone else. [Hidden Content] Here's a link to the NISD budget for this school year. Have fun. [quote author=smitty link=topic=84302.msg1012766#msg1012766 date=1305883799] It appears, though, I'm not the only one.   Sometimes you have to think outside the box.     ;) Stick with me, young-un:  I was saying you know what's important (education) and it's NOT a game (football, baseball) that's really important.  Games are good but it's still a game!  Get it now?? [quote author=PN-G bandkid link=topic=84302.msg1012600#msg1012600 date=1305840397] [quote author=smitty link=topic=84302.msg1012382#msg1012382 date=1305772864] There is not a narrow definition of education.  You no what's important and I know what's important.  And it's NOT a game!!  It's good if you can but it's still a GAME!!!!! [/quote] Yeah, I do know what's important. Values are important - every bit as important as actual knowledge. You can't teach a student the importance of teamwork by only giving him reading, writing, and arithmetic. Alright, you've lost me. It's not a game, but it's still a game? Whatever. Good luck, Ned. Have fun trying to replace those dilapidated, crumbling buildings with smitty out there. Meanwhile, I'll be wrapping up my secondary education over here on the Reservation, where we have a solid foundation, an intact roof, and central air and heat. Scalp 'em! ;D [/quote] [/quote] So you know for a fact that these two incumbents were removed from the board for their stances on the bond? I think that bond would have passed had the economy not crashed. In fact, it sounds to me like most in Nederland regret not passing it, but that's just an outsider perspective. And even as a band member, I know that those games teach a lot more than just how to score points when you've got the right coaches. [/quote] [/quote] Think outside the box? I and others have explained the financial implications of eliminating extra curricular programs. Your tunnel vision keeps you is very small impractical box. Critics constantly criticizing with no real knowledge; no wonder NISD is in the shape their in. ::) PS – I think it’s safe to say you have no children in the district. [/quote] [/quote] There is no question that education is the #1 priority but it is tunnel vision to think nothing else is of importance.

[quote name="smitty" post="1013494" timestamp="1306151841"] Let's just take this 1.7 mill figure.  How many teachers could we hire with that money?  How much repairs could we do with that money?  In times of trouble, [b]sometimes you have to think outside the box!![/b]  Saying business as usual will not cut it anymore!! [quote author=PN-G bandkid link=topic=84302.msg1013168#msg1013168 date=1305995572] [quote author=smitty link=topic=84302.msg1012764#msg1012764 date=1305882315] Does anyone here have the total budget for extra-curricular activities for Nederland ISD? [/quote] I don't know what it is now, but I know at one time NISD spent about $1.7 Million annually on athletics. Although this is a Nederland thread, I'd like to point out that in the same year PN-GISD spent half that since you love to pick on us as well. We also make more money from football ticket sales than Nederland... and just about everyone else. [Hidden Content] Here's a link to the NISD budget for this school year. Have fun. [quote author=smitty link=topic=84302.msg1012766#msg1012766 date=1305883799] It appears, though, I'm not the only one.   Sometimes you have to think outside the box.     ;) Stick with me, young-un:  I was saying you know what's important (education) and it's NOT a game (football, baseball) that's really important.  Games are good but it's still a game!  Get it now?? [quote author=PN-G bandkid link=topic=84302.msg1012600#msg1012600 date=1305840397] [quote author=smitty link=topic=84302.msg1012382#msg1012382 date=1305772864] There is not a narrow definition of education.  You no what's important and I know what's important.  And it's NOT a game!!  It's good if you can but it's still a GAME!!!!! [/quote] Yeah, I do know what's important. Values are important - every bit as important as actual knowledge. You can't teach a student the importance of teamwork by only giving him reading, writing, and arithmetic. Alright, you've lost me. It's not a game, but it's still a game? Whatever. Good luck, Ned. Have fun trying to replace those dilapidated, crumbling buildings with smitty out there. Meanwhile, I'll be wrapping up my secondary education over here on the Reservation, where we have a solid foundation, an intact roof, and central air and heat. Scalp 'em! ;D [/quote] [/quote] So you know for a fact that these two incumbents were removed from the board for their stances on the bond? I think that bond would have passed had the economy not crashed. In fact, it sounds to me like most in Nederland regret not passing it, but that's just an outsider perspective. And even as a band member, I know that those games teach a lot more than just how to score points when you've got the right coaches. [/quote] [/quote] Think outside the box? I and others have explained the financial implications of eliminating extra curricular programs. Your tunnel vision keeps you is very small impractical box. Critics constantly criticizing with no real knowledge; no wonder NISD is in the shape their in. ::) PS – I think it’s safe to say you have no children in the district.

[quote name="smitty" post="1012764" timestamp="1305882315"] Does anyone here have the total budget for extra-curricular activities for Nederland ISD? [/quote] You continue to ask questions but provide no answers or solutions