UNLV

[quote name="coachacola" post="836563" timestamp="1283378756"] Looks like the WAC is looking to expand after the 2011-2012 season which would give Lamar a little time to prepare for the move.  I still have no idea if Lamar is even interested, but if there's a eastern WAC division with the likes of UTSA, La Tech, NMSU, and Texas State then why not? Link: [url=[Hidden Content] looking to expand following 2011-2012 season[/url] [/quote]From your article...."Among the criteria the committee will consider includes academics, attendance, budgets, location/transportation, market size, recent success and sports sponsorship." Compared to other WAC schools, LU is in great shape.. academics   ;) attendance   ;) budgets  needs to be a bit higher, but  ;) location/transportation   ;) market size  400k,  ;) recent success  womens bball, golf, mbball slc champs 2 years ago...  ;) sports sponsorship.  ;)

La Tech gets a home and home football with BYU in 11 and 12. Lamar could be doing the samet-err, no, that would be thinking too big. SETX and Lamar couldn't measure up to Ruston, La. We should stay FCS for 5-10 years until everything is perfect.  ::)

[quote name="NorthoftheBorder" post="835648" timestamp="1283265919"] [quote author=TexasTerror link=topic=72250.msg835586#msg835586 date=1283260547] [quote author=NorthoftheBorder link=topic=72250.msg835417#msg835417 date=1283222369] I remember that there was post on here earlier this year before the big confernce shakeup where some pundit was looking at, i think the Sun Belt and was projecting Lamar to move in it.  The article I think said that a minimum enrollment figure for the conference was 16k.  Looks like LU is well on its way.  This is really good news for LU and for Beaumont to see stong growth.[/quote] The conference does not have a minimum enrollment figure! If it does, ULM needs to go! They have under 9,000 students. UALR needs to be shown the door as well as Denver and Arkansas State... [/quote] Maybe it was CUSA!  I don't remember the conference but I do remember the article.  UNLV would probably know. [/quote]Yeah, I remember that article with LU going into the Sunbelt with 16k. But I can't remember where it is. However BYU must decide by Wednesday on staying MWC or not. Then it'll be time for the WAC to fold or do some inviting... UPDATE...BYU leaves MWC to go Indy. MWC looking at Houston.

Nicholls st is done with football and I give Northwestern a 50/50 in football. I think the state will help Mcneese football survive.

This guy is the hardest hitting player, ever...

[quote name="sleepy" post="831097" timestamp="1282826912"] [quote author=NorthoftheBorder link=topic=71805.msg830720#msg830720 date=1282767282] [quote author=coachacola link=topic=71805.msg830699#msg830699 date=1282764558] There are a few drawbacks going FBS that cannot be taken lightly: 1.   The Sunbelt, MAC and WAC conferences have TV games on Thursday and Friday nights.  That sucks and I would hate for Lamar to have to play games on those nights.  It kills attendance and when I see Sunbelt teams play on those nights they don't look like FBS teams.  College football was not meant for weeknights! 2.  Lamar could do quite well playing games against top-notch FCS schools such as Appy State and Montana.  McNeese has scheduled a home game against Appy State, and if Lamar did the same it would probably be a sellout.  If they do the scheduling right and don't bring a lot of no-name D2 or NAIA teams to the stadium then I can see great crowds every Saturday. 3.  Lamar's athletic budget has to been driven by donations and ticket sales, not student fees like UTSA, Texas State, North Texas and others.  Keep Lamar affordable with a great athletic program along with ever improving academics (another engineering PhD program is on it's way) and Lamar will keep growing with a reasonable student fee for athletics.  (Texas Sate will soon be charging $20 per semester hour for athletics.  I don't want to see Lamar going FBS this way.) 4.  Lamar is picking up a lot of FBS transfers because they want to play at home and don't have to sit out a year.  Once Lamar goes FBS they'll be recruiting against the big boys and will lose most of those battles.  And when some of these players want to transfer out, they may not pick Lamar but go to McNeese or SFA instead because they won't have to see out a year. What are the advantages of going FBS that outweigh these drawbacks? [/quote] Coachacola you are always well spoken.  However, as with anything, we either see the glass as half full or half empty.  We can always find reasons to not do something or we can find reasons to actually give it a try. I personally have spent too much of my life finding reasons not to do what I really wanted to do and consequently have missed out on opportunities for fear of failure.  I refer back to my earlier post and the mindset of Billy Tubbs when he took the Head Coaching position at LU back in 75.  I don't advocate blind faith and reckless abandon in pursuit of going FBS, but I also dont wont to see the mindset that, "Oh well, we are little ole Lamar and we have no hope to be anything better than we are now" that will become a self fulfilling prophecy. [/quote] I don't believe that we should as you say "Oh well, we are little ole Lamar and we have no hope to be anything better than we are now".   But at the same time we shouldn't set the expectation that if we don't we are a failure.  That should be our ultimate goal but at the same time lets set goals that WE CAN CONTROL and be the best team and school we can be right now and if those things come our way we will deal with them. [/quote]We can't control when to get the FBS invite. There is a good chance LU gets a WAC invite soon. Either LU take it or reject it and risk never getting another invite.

When I lived in Las Vegas and LU was in the Sunbelt, LU was on the big board of all the Casinos;Ceasars, Barbary Coast, Boomtown, MGM, Luxor, Hilton...I would bet on LU a lot. Once LU was playing a top 25 team and the spread was +36 LU. I bet LU would not win but not lose by 36 points. LU lost by 32, but I won big. LU stats was in the Las Vegas newspaper. Even in the Sunbelt, LU was treated as a big name. In the SLC, you can't find LU on the casino boards anymore or getting the same exposure.

Nothing in stone yet... Houston to MWC Temple to CUSA Utah st to MWC BYU indy

[quote name="tracker1012" post="830552" timestamp="1282746164"] We have not even snapped the ball in 20 years and we are an idiot school for not trying to join a larger conference. We want even play in the southland till next year. Lets just make sure we support this program through what is probably going to be a tough couple of years. [/quote]UTSA never snapped the ball and is 1 year behind LU, yet they are ready to join a FBS conference. Keep in mind change is coming to the SLC. OUT UTSA Texas st possible Nicholls possible UTA possible SHSU possible SFA IN Tarleton st Texas A&I Central OK Can you honestly see the stands full...

[quote name="sleepy" post="830512" timestamp="1282740346"] [quote author=UNLV link=topic=71805.msg830146#msg830146 date=1282695278] [quote author=AggiesAreWe link=topic=71805.msg830046#msg830046 date=1282678779] [quote author=sleepy link=topic=71805.msg830035#msg830035 date=1282678038] Does anyone remember how we got POUNDED in basketball in the Sunbelt?  We were a Southland power.........moved to the Sunbelt and look at where we are today.  Let's try to master the worst conference in all of college sports and then try to move from there.  You know...........[b]crawl before we walk.[/b] [/quote] UNLV doesn't understand that concept. ;) [/quote]So far 12 years in the SLC, we haven't mastered anything yet. Should we move to DII? I'm just using your logic. No other school uses such insane logic to keep itself down and out. Yet flourish in so many minds here and in SETX. Texas st and UTSA fans must be laughing TAO at the mindset on this forum. [/quote] They are laughing alright..............it is just at you.  Trust me when I say this that Lamar is not going anywhere for quite some time!!!! A. Because they will not have a chance to. B. Because they want to be succesful in at least one of the two major sports before making the jump. [/quote]C. FBS goal is to cap the number of FBS schools so LU will be outside looking in trying to be miss perfect while Texas st and UTSA will be looking down laughing at the idiot school who did move on an opportunity.

[quote name="CardAmbassador" post="830143" timestamp="1282694965"] [quote author=NorthoftheBorder link=topic=71805.msg830056#msg830056 date=1282681015] UTSA is starting football from scratch with the absolute goal of going FBS ASAP!  They have two advantages over LU in that they are located in a major metropolitan area and they have the Alamodome at their disposal.  I'm not sure the Alamodome is a "big" advantage, but it is much larger and meets FBS standards whereas PU must be expanded and will never have that large of seating capacity.  That said, I think LU can match or beat UTSA in in every other aspect.  If Woodard puts together a 1st class program that is sucessful and generates excitement among students and the fan base, then success will breed success.  I hope that Dr. Simmons will explore every opportunity and thinks big.  If it turns out LU can't go FBS whether that is outside there control or not, then I hope the goal is to be the best FCS school in the nation. [/quote] UTSA and to an Extent TxSt have very little in common with LU other than being members of the Southland. UTSA is in the UT system that means it has a larger portion of funding set aside for it in the state budget than LU does. It's not really fair but it's politics and the UT and A&M grads control Austin. I know that the state doesn't fund athletics but when you have more money coming to your academics from state sources you can use more of your student generated revenue for things like Athletics. The thought that state budgets don't affect athletics in Texas is absurd. Another big difference, Enrollment and Alumni, Both UTSA and TxSt have about 30000 students and that means a significant amount of alumni too. LU has 14,000 and really only about 12,000 when you subtract the online masters students, we have roughly 70,000 living alumni. We don't size up with those schools as far as money goes. TxSt and UTSA represent what economies of scale can do for a university. Furthermore UTSA is in a large media market and TxSt is in between two large media markets. They can both leverage their positions. This is directed at other post I have seen: The thought that the Southland is the worst in collegiate athletics is preposterous. The Southland is certainly not the best but also far from the worse, it could be the worst if both UTSA and TxSt jump ship too soon though. All along I have said that I'm not advocating a small minded approach for the school. I'm advocating a common sense approach, and understanding. Everyone, please understand our unique situation and don't hold it against us. [/quote]Well lets take a look at numbers. LAMAR 14,000 Monroe 7,000....FBS school...a big boy. La Tech....12,000. SOUTHER MISS of CUSA...14,000 Marshall....14,000 UAB....16,000 I could go on...hmm I think LU is bigger than Clemson too. The point is, these schools and fans think big..aka jumping in the big pool and swimming. While LU splash water in the kiddie pool...small limited thinking. Oh Oh, don't get in the big pool. The water is too deep. Only the big boys like ULM belong in the big pool.

[quote name="AggiesAreWe" post="830046" timestamp="1282678779"] [quote author=sleepy link=topic=71805.msg830035#msg830035 date=1282678038] Does anyone remember how we got POUNDED in basketball in the Sunbelt?  We were a Southland power.........moved to the Sunbelt and look at where we are today.  Let's try to master the worst conference in all of college sports and then try to move from there.  You know...........[b]crawl before we walk.[/b] [/quote] UNLV doesn't understand that concept. ;) [/quote]So far 12 years in the SLC, we haven't mastered anything yet. Should we move to DII? I'm just using your logic. No other school uses such insane logic to keep itself down and out. Yet flourish in so many minds here and in SETX. Texas st and UTSA fans must be laughing TAO at the mindset on this forum.

[quote name="Green Menace" post="829816" timestamp="1282618088"] [quote author=UNLV link=topic=71805.msg829703#msg829703 date=1282608376] [quote author=Green Menace link=topic=71805.msg829684#msg829684 date=1282606867] [quote author=UNLV link=topic=71805.msg829425#msg829425 date=1282578796] [quote author=WOS95 link=topic=71805.msg829414#msg829414 date=1282577055] imo if we move to FBS and are terrible...u can forget about ppl coming to the games..and u can say bye bye to football once again...by the same token if we are terrible in FCS u can also forget about ppl coming to the games....point being just win baby!!! no matter who we play!! [/quote]We need to win. However winning at the FCS will not pack the house especially playing SFA, SHSU, Abilene Christian, Delta st, etc etc... At the FBS level even if we are having a 2-6 season, bringing in Alabama, Texas Tech, Boise st will pack the house. [/quote] Hold on cowboy!  Good luck bringing 'Bama, Tx Tech, or Boise St to Beaumont.  As nice a stadium as you now have, it's not big enough to bring in fans from those universities.  Maybe Boise.  Not sure how they travel. [/quote]Come on dude, you're smarter than that. LU would not be a FBS with the current 17,000 seat stadium... [/quote] Then according to your timeline, Lamar better be making plans to expand the stadium to 30,000+...like NOW! [/quote]I don't know what is going on in LU's war room. I don't know if LU leaders have a solid plan for a future move to FBS or if the plan is to see where things stand in 5 years. I don't know if joining the WAC is  great idea or a mistake. I do know FBS opportunities will be very limited if not totally gone in the future for a few decades. Texas st and UTSA understands this, I hope LU does as well.

[quote name="CardAmbassador" post="829826" timestamp="1282620172"] This is where you are wrong. Let me tell you the fundamental problem in this area. No one can get behind anything in SeTx unless it is the biggest and best. Well sorry you don't get to that point immediately you have to build to it, that is how all the other schools have done it and that is how Lamar WILL do it, with or without you. So you are the small minded one, if you honestly think Lamar has a shot at being FBS in 2 or 3 years you are very ignorant of the situation. It's not only that we don't have the dough at the moment it's that no conference has us on even a top 10 list. The mentality that LU has to go FBS or everyone will be disillusioned and quit caring is the small mindedness I speak of, people with that attitude are what keep this area from real growth. [/quote]If LU pass an opportunity to get into the FBS club, then LU will always remain a nobody and a second or third option to our great local talent.

[quote name="CardAmbassador" post="829826" timestamp="1282620172"] [quote author=UNLV link=topic=71805.msg829384#msg829384 date=1282570419] I said on this forum before, Dr Simmons does think small and limited like most SETX leaders. Your kind of thinking would keep LU growth dead. [/quote] This is where you are wrong. Let me tell you the fundamental problem in this area. No one can get behind anything in SeTx unless it is the biggest and best. Well sorry you don't get to that point immediately you have to build to it, that is how all the other schools have done it and that is how Lamar WILL do it, with or without you. So you are the small minded one, if you honestly think Lamar has a shot at being FBS in 2 or 3 years you are very ignorant of the situation. It's not only that we don't have the dough at the moment it's that no conference has us on even a top 10 list. The mentality that LU has to go FBS or everyone will be disillusioned and quit caring is the small mindedness I speak of, people with that attitude are what keep this area from real growth. I will keep supporting LU to the end I will be at every game, I will buy the merchandise, I will tell everyone about the truly great things that are happening daily at my university. After graduation when I'm making the big bucks I will donate hundreds or a thousand each year to support the athletics and academics of Lamar. Why would I do these things? Because I love the school and the area and I'm committed to it's continuous growth. Anyone who will abandon LU just because they CAN'T AFFORD FBS in a 2 to 3 year timeline is the small minded dim wit that keeps this area from growth. Stop saying I'm the small minded one, I have supported this area with everything I have, that is what it takes. Do you have the guts to do the same?   [/quote]typo...I meant to say "does not" in this quote " Dr Simmons does think small and limited like most SETX leaders"

[quote name="Green Menace" post="829684" timestamp="1282606867"] [quote author=UNLV link=topic=71805.msg829425#msg829425 date=1282578796] [quote author=WOS95 link=topic=71805.msg829414#msg829414 date=1282577055] imo if we move to FBS and are terrible...u can forget about ppl coming to the games..and u can say bye bye to football once again...by the same token if we are terrible in FCS u can also forget about ppl coming to the games....point being just win baby!!! no matter who we play!! [/quote]We need to win. However winning at the FCS will not pack the house especially playing SFA, SHSU, Abilene Christian, Delta st, etc etc... At the FBS level even if we are having a 2-6 season, bringing in Alabama, Texas Tech, Boise st will pack the house. [/quote] Hold on cowboy!  Good luck bringing 'Bama, Tx Tech, or Boise St to Beaumont.  As nice a stadium as you now have, it's not big enough to bring in fans from those universities.  Maybe Boise.  Not sure how they travel. [/quote]Come on dude, you're smarter than that. LU would not be a FBS with the current 17,000 seat stadium...

[quote name="WOS95" post="829414" timestamp="1282577055"] imo if we move to FBS and are terrible...u can forget about ppl coming to the games..and u can say bye bye to football once again...by the same token if we are terrible in FCS u can also forget about ppl coming to the games....point being just win baby!!! no matter who we play!! [/quote]We need to win. However winning at the FCS will not pack the house especially playing SFA, SHSU, Abilene Christian, Delta st, etc etc... At the FBS level even if we are having a 2-6 season, bringing in Alabama, Texas Tech, Boise st will pack the house.

[quote name="coachacola" post="829339" timestamp="1282535816"] Lamar doesn't have to start competing at the FBS level right away if they join the WAC.  A WAC invite would probably mean they would join the conference in 2012 at the earliest, maybe even in 2013.  After two years in FCS they'll have two years to transition to FBS.  Woodard has already scheduled one FBS team year for the money, wouldn't it be nice to get some FBS teams into Beaumont?  They won't come if Lamar stays FCS.  The McNeese, SFA, and Sam Houston games will probably be the "big" home games each year, is that the fans want?  Baylor came to Beaumont a long time ago before Lamar went 1-AA, it won't ever happen again if Lamar doesn't go back to FBS. And how stable is the SLC?  UTSA is leaving, Texas State is probably leaving.  Nicholls State is hanging by a thread financially.  Five years from now will people be excited about Lamar football when the SLC invites a D2 school to join the conference? And let's not forget Lamar basketball.  I want to see Lamar compete against better competition, even if it means they struggle at first.  The Montagne Center and Lamar's attendance would be right at home in the WAC.  Check out last year's attendance: Utah State 9,792 Hawaii 5,667 NMSU 5,659 [b]Lamar 2,971[/b] La Tech 2,438 San Jose 1,854 Idaho 1,640 Sure there's a risk if Lamar goes to the WAC, but I think the powers that be at Lamar have been crunching the numbers for a while to see what it would take to go FBS.  Maybe Dr. Simmons has already decided not to pursue FBS at this time.  I guess only time will tell. [/quote]Exactly....You can't let opportunities pass you up even if the opportunities aren't perfect. ULM had Alabama in Monroe and they beat them.

[quote name="CardAmbassador" post="829169" timestamp="1282520354"] [quote author=UNLV link=topic=71805.msg829156#msg829156 date=1282519472] In the 80's, LU and La Tech were equal. Today Tech is a known FBS school making national news and a top canidate for CUSA. Unknown Lamar, back in the SLC playing the same jv ball that killed the program. So sad yet you would be happy with it. The setx mentality at it's best. [/quote] I will only repeat that there are many other factors that lead to the decline of LU in the 90's. That was the only period of despair for the school. You didn't even recognize my examples that prove that your rule is false (i.e. football is not the primary reason for success, unless were talking about certain programs the University of Miami comes to mind) Believe me I'm not the small minded one here, you are. I don't know why it took me this long to realize it's useless to talk to you. Where did you go to school? Hopefully UNLV, it would be disgraceful to us if you were a LU grad and used that name. [/quote]I was attending LU games as far as I can remember. I attended Lamar one year but had the transfer out because the school was so bad. On campus rapes, a murder, teachers giving out "A"'s for sex, and buildings catching fire...by it self. Oh wait, dropping football was suppose to repair all the problems. I said on this forum before, Dr Simmons does think small and limited like most SETX leaders. Your kind of thinking would keep LU growth dead.

In the 80's, LU and La Tech were equal. Today Tech is a known FBS school making national news and a top canidate for CUSA. Unknown Lamar, back in the SLC playing the same jv ball that killed the program. So sad yet you would be happy with it. The setx mentality at it's best.

LU went 35 years, 1970-2005, without growth because of beliefs as yours. Lamar dropped football using the same thinking. You might be happy with LU being A FCS no growth school, the game day 2/3 empty stadium will be the results. The FBS powers already think there are too many FBS schools and every year they make up new rules to block FCS move ups. In 5 years it will be so strict that no FCS can move up. Do you doubt the trend or do you naively think Simmons has the power to command LU into FBS at his choosing... LU should get in before the door shuts, then go from there. PS. Billy Tubbs said FCS won't succeed in SETX. He was right. [quote name="CardAmbassador" post="828833" timestamp="1282461768"] [quote author=UNLV link=topic=71805.msg828727#msg828727 date=1282443703] I don't care who you know, please read....LAMAR DOES NOT DICTATE WHEN OR IF A FBS CONFERENCE CAN CALL THEM UP. So you can know the King and the Queen. If Lamar gets that call, Lamar better get its butt ready. If Lamar can't get it done, then Lamar may not get another chance. Lamar can forget about FBS, reguardless of Simmon's wishes. [/quote] Can you read? I know that we don't control when a conference calls us up that's common sense. I was stating that if we do get the call early it's not going to happen. I mentioned Simmons and Hopper because I was demonstrating where the schools priorities are. You may feel that it is imperative that LU is FBS that is not everyone in the administrations feelings. That type of move cost money and as I said they want to build the campus up, which also cost money. So my mention of those two names had relevance to what I was trying to get across. Also I completely agree with the sentiment that FCS is just fine. Do I want to see LU move to FBS, yes, if it doesn't conflict with the schools broader motives for development. If we end up staying FCS I will not cry about it though, I just want what is best for the school. To UNLV and everyone else who throw Lamar's name in with TxSt and UTSA, you're dreaming. Those two schools are far ahead of us in the line to get into any conference. Someone please cite a league commissioner talking about Lamar, no one is. Lets be realistic, were going to be in the FCS for the foreseeable future. The thought that if we don't get in in the next 2 to 3 years we never will is nonsense. How do we no what will happen in the NCAA 5 or 10 years down the road? LU is a school before it's a sports team. [/quote]

If LU got the call today, LU does not have to be FBS today. LU would have 2-3 years to get FBS ready.

[quote name="kingkat99" post="828725" timestamp="1282443506"] I have asked this question on katfans so ill ask it here too....what is so great about being fbs?  You will never play for a national championship and depending on the conference you join you may not win a conference championship for many years.  No major school ie Texas will ever get into a home and home deal with you and you can play those "money" games now as an fcs school.  Ill take an opportunity to play for a conference championship and a real national championship all day over a conference championship and an opportunity to play in the dowereallydeserveabowl.com bowl in podunk Michigan somewhere anyday... [/quote]Boise st opponents said the same thing.

I don't care who you know, please read....LAMAR DOES NOT DICTATE WHEN OR IF A FBS CONFERENCE CAN CALL THEM UP. So you can know the King and the Queen. If Lamar gets that call, Lamar better get its butt ready. If Lamar can't get it done, then Lamar may not get another chance. Lamar can forget about FBS, reguardless of Simmon's wishes.

The WAC needs to add members now. Not next year, not in 3 months. The already have 1 foot in the grave with Hawaii and Utah st ready to go. SJST might drop football, that leaves La Tech, NMSU, and Idaho with no homes. Would the Sunbelt take Tech and NMSU, I don't now... UTSA is begging to get in. The WAC options are to add teams or die. They have less than 10 days to decide. For Cardinal fans, if the WAC dies, LU you can forget about FBS in our lifetime. My prediction, the WAC invites UTSA and Texas st along with 2 west coast teams. The best solution is to build a eastern division around Tech by adding 5-6 regional schools.