TOUGHER BI-DISTRICT TOP TO BOTTOM

[cougar14]

What is your bi-district matchup and why is it harder to make the playoffs in your district? Everyone included but 19-204A particularly. I was just thinking about the playoff teams in our district and why they always seem to pretty much be the same no matter the district changes. In the current alignments it's usually Crosby, Dayton and BH with someone else thrown in there yet they're usually in the lower half of the district enrollment wise. It kind of threw me off because I was thinking about the individual talent at Ozen and Central and that they should be perennial playoff teams but was surprised to see that they weren't. Then I looked and saw that 20-4A has usually been wide open over the past 6-8 years. Does this mean a district is tougher because the programs are more equal, or tougher if you have to be one of 5 or 6 programs to get a shot most years? 

[aschom78]

Well you have to first define "Competitive". Is a district competitive when it has a lot of strong teams or when most teams are close in strength? The first scenario best defines 19-4a and the second best defines 20-4a. However when you look at it from the perspective of a consistently strong team like Ned, 20-4a looks less competitive. However, if you look at dayton in 19-4a, which likewise is consistently strong, the situation is ironically competitive from their perspective. This is because they have a few teams frequently in their district (BH, crosby) that are close to their level of ability.

In conclusion, I find dayton's playoff streak very impressive. Although 20-4a usually has a pretty solid PNG squad and these past 2 years an inspiring Vidor team, I would argue that Ned does not have to struggle as much as the better teams in 19-4a do to make the playoffs.

[cougar14]

[quote name="aschom78" post="1404688" timestamp="1368586341"]
Well you have to first define "Competitive". Is a district competitive when it has a lot of strong teams or when most teams are close in strength? The first scenario best defines 19-4a and the second best defines 20-4a. However when you look at it from the perspective of a consistently strong team like Ned, 20-4a looks less competitive. However, if you look at dayton in 19-4a, which likewise is consistently strong, the situation is ironically competitive from their perspective. This is because they have a few teams frequently in their district (BH, crosby) that are close to their level of ability.

In conclusion, I find dayton's playoff streak very impressive. Although 20-4a usually has a pretty solid PNG squad and these past 2 years an inspiring Vidor team, I would argue that Ned does not have to struggle as much as the better teams in 19-4a do to make the playoffs.
[/quote]Just to add to that, I think enrollment should be brought into account. Central is the only big school in the district over there. 19-4a is rotating former 5a Humble who has very good athletes, King and Kingwood Park who are both over 1650, GCM and Galena Park who are both over 1850 and now 2k enrollment SC yet three spots are usually taken before the season starts.

[snafu]

[size=12pt]I think the previous posters have it pretty much nailed.... 20-4A usually has 4-5 sometimes 6 teams competing  for the 4 spots come play off time, where as 19-4A usually has its perennial 3+1 and right now it looks like Summer Creek has concreted that +1.... now will they move into one of the 3 spots and make someone else be that +1 ... I think the jury will be out until the end of the 2014 season because in all honesty They are just to talented and are in beast mode to stop this upcoming season... I think you have 2 regulars in 20-4A in Nederaland (1478 ) and PN-G (1431 ) both with storied and great histories.... then you have the fought from the cellar Pirates who have made noise the past 2 seasons... I believe the program Coach Mathews has rooted here is getting that attitude that the aforementioned 2 schools have... Will it Last? Will it dwindle? I think that question will be answered in the next 2 years... Then you have Central (1840 )and Ozen ( 1264 )... Very Talented teams no doubt... FAST... STRONG... Quick... now I believe there are 2 factors they make them less than stellar teams.... [b]#1[/b] Revolving door on the coaching staff.... when you change OC, or HC 3, 4, 5 years in a row ... the team can not build any unity... or any rhythm ... the team has no direction... If you look at Nederland, PNG and Vidor you do not see a heavy turnover rate in the coaching staff....  I believe from what I have seen and heard about Coach Foreman may fix this part of the equation and the 2nd part also... [b]#2 [/b]lack of Work ethic, Enthusiasm, desire...Don't get me wrong there are probably a few that do have these but not enough and most of it I think stems from the #1 problem... But if coach Foreman at Central and Coach MaGee at Ozen can put a door stop on the coaches revolving door then I think you will start to see 2 different teams and they will get that swagger that the Pirates have recently experienced.. Because the kids will get out and work on their own without having the coaches breath down their neck.... Livingston (1143), LCM (1123), and Lumberton(1087) I believe are hindered by enrollment more then anything... I think they have some talented kids that come through these programs such as Collins ( Liv ) and Sezar ( LCM ) but due to numbers they aren't enough at any given 1 time to make a bunch of noise consistently..  Could these teams compete at the 3A level ... by all means.. I wish all these teams Great success on the upcoming season ( except when they face my Pirates ;-D )

I meant nothing as a bash on any team or player, just my view on the districts....

[b]You don't win football games during the season... You win football games in the off season!![/b][/size]

[bh89-2]

Three main factors:

1. Strong consistent coaching (That is the same as saying money, which is tax based)
2. Enrollment (more to choose from)
3. Athletic ability - "White Men Can't Jump" ..... Not my line fellas.......
4. Strong parenting - There are good and bad ones, all starts here

# 1 is why Central and Ozen have had little success. 

[cougar14]

[quote name="Smoking Baby Again" post="1404760" timestamp="1368628969"]
Three main factors:

1. Strong consistent coaching (That is the same as saying money, which is tax based)
2. Enrollment (more to choose from)
3. Athletic ability - "White Men Can't Jump" ..... Not my line fellas.......
4. Strong parenting - There are good and bad ones, all starts here

# 1 is why Central and Ozen have had little success.
[/quote]Maybe I would move 4 to 1 but otherwise I totally agree with the order. 3 can cover up for one like  NF last year and 1 can cover for 3 like BH most years. 3 definitely isn't the problem at Ozen and Central but has PNG benefited from playing in a low enrollment district?

[bronco pride]

You have to have athletes and coaching to be successful. You can not have a team that wins consistently without both.

[NDNation]

[quote name="cougar14" post="1404768" timestamp="1368630641"]
[quote author=Smoking Baby Again link=topic=111977.msg1404760#msg1404760 date=1368628969]
Three main factors:

1. Strong consistent coaching (That is the same as saying money, which is tax based)
2. Enrollment (more to choose from)
3. Athletic ability - "White Men Can't Jump" ..... Not my line fellas.......
4. Strong parenting - There are good and bad ones, all starts here

# 1 is why Central and Ozen have had little success.
[/quote]Maybe I would move 4 to 1 but otherwise I totally agree with the order. 3 can cover up for one like  NF last year and 1 can cover for 3 like BH most years. 3 definitely isn't the problem at Ozen and Central but has PNG benefited from playing in a low enrollment district?
[/quote]

Oh yeah...we benefited GREATLY last year from being in a low enrollment district.  ;)

[TradinUp BH]

The reason teams like Ned and PNG compete every year is because they have some athletes, but alot of heart and pride. These school districts instill into young athletes at an early age, school and community pride. These teams IMO overachieve almost every year with less talent then other areas. They fight tooth and nail every Friday and they are rewarded most years with a spot in the playoffs.

I've noticed other schools whether 19 or 20-4a with very little support from fans, as well as parents. When you look into the stands and see only a few hundred fans, it means that probably only parents of band, cheer, football players are there. Where is the rest of the community? You have to be able to grow that community pride during down and up years to build a successful program. This along with a coach that is willing to sell his ideas, beliefs, and system to the entire community. That's why the recent success of Vidor. You have to have a rich tradition of excellence along with already mentioned stuff, and that's why you have Barbers Hill.

On paper, schools like CEK, Humble, Ozen, and Central should be in the playoffs every year, but they lack some of the above mentioned things. These schools have way more talent then BH,PNG, Nederland, and Vidor, but without a coach and a community they will underachieve IMO. It takes an entire community to rack up w's on Friday nights!

[cougar14]

I think having NF leave the district and go 11-1 the next year says a lot for 19-4A. GCM made the playoffs in a district with Texas City, Dawson, and Friendswood which is no small feat in itself for our former district member. Galena Park has almost 2k kids and is usually a tough out no matter what their record. This year of the teams that didn't make the playoffs Humble is a former 5A program that would probably have a state title had it not been for Katy and still has some good looking athletes over there. King has 1700+ kids and are physical as they come most years. Kingwood Park has over 1650 kids and is basically Barbers Hill with more melanin. It's brutal on this side of the river. :'( 

[AthleticSupporter - Jock]

[quote name="TradinUp BH" post="1404850" timestamp="1368643479"]
The reason teams like Ned and PNG compete every year is because they have some athletes, but [b]alot of heart and pride[/b]. These school districts instill into young athletes at an early age, school and community pride. These teams IMO overachieve almost every year with less talent then other areas. They fight tooth and nail every Friday and they are rewarded most years with a spot in the playoffs.

I've noticed other schools whether 19 or 20-4a with very little support from fans, as well as parents. When you look into the stands and see only a few hundred fans, it means that probably only parents of band, cheer, football players are there. Where is the rest of the community? You have to be able to grow that community pride during down and up years to build a successful program. This along with a coach that is willing to sell his ideas, beliefs, and system to the entire community. That's why the recent success of Vidor. You have to have a rich tradition of excellence along with already mentioned stuff, and that's why you have Barbers Hill.

On paper, schools like CEK, Humble, Ozen, and Central should be in the playoffs every year, but they lack some of the above mentioned things. These schools have way more talent then BH,PNG, Nederland, and Vidor, but without a coach and a community they will underachieve IMO.[b] It takes an entire community to rack up w's on Friday nights![/b]
[/quote]

Great post.

[Bigdog]

[quote name="aschom78" post="1404688" timestamp="1368586341"]
Well you have to first define "Competitive". Is a district competitive when it has a lot of strong teams or when most teams are close in strength? The first scenario best defines 19-4a and the second best defines 20-4a. However when you look at it from the perspective of a consistently strong team like Ned, 20-4a looks less competitive. However, if you look at dayton in 19-4a, which likewise is consistently strong, the situation is ironically competitive from their perspective. This is because they have a few teams frequently in their district (BH, crosby) that are close to their level of ability.

In conclusion, I find dayton's playoff streak very impressive. Although 20-4a usually has a pretty solid PNG squad and these past 2 years an inspiring Vidor team, I would argue that Ned does not have to struggle as much as the better teams in 19-4a do to make the playoffs.
[/quote]

I disagree, 20-4a usually has at least 5 teams that are in close competition for 4 spots, with the last spot usually coming down to head-to head or a 3 way tie breaker.  19-4a was pretty much set , with 5th place 3 games out.  Ned has struggled plenty, including the couple of years of widespread injuries to key players and still made the playoffs.  As far as strong teams, most of the time it is a 2-2 split with 19 in bi-district with a few 3-1 one way or the other. 

[Mr. Buddy Garrity]

[quote name="bigdog" post="1404905" timestamp="1368651681"]
[quote author=aschom78 link=topic=111977.msg1404688#msg1404688 date=1368586341]
Well you have to first define "Competitive". Is a district competitive when it has a lot of strong teams or when most teams are close in strength? The first scenario best defines 19-4a and the second best defines 20-4a. However when you look at it from the perspective of a consistently strong team like Ned, 20-4a looks less competitive. However, if you look at dayton in 19-4a, which likewise is consistently strong, the situation is ironically competitive from their perspective. This is because they have a few teams frequently in their district (BH, crosby) that are close to their level of ability.

In conclusion, I find dayton's playoff streak very impressive. Although 20-4a usually has a pretty solid PNG squad and these past 2 years an inspiring Vidor team, I would argue that Ned does not have to struggle as much as the better teams in 19-4a do to make the playoffs.
[/quote]

I disagree, 20-4a usually has at least 5 teams that are in close competition for 4 spots, with the last spot usually coming down to head-to head or a 3 way tie breaker.  19-4a was pretty much set , with 5th place 3 games out.  Ned has struggled plenty, [b]including the couple of years of widespread injuries to key players and still made the playoffs[/b].  As far as strong teams, most of the time it is a 2-2 split with 19 in bi-district with a few 3-1 one way or the other.
[/quote] Aint that the truth, seen a little bit of that last year.

[cougar14]

[quote name="bigdog" post="1404905" timestamp="1368651681"]
[quote author=aschom78 link=topic=111977.msg1404688#msg1404688 date=1368586341]
Well you have to first define "Competitive". Is a district competitive when it has a lot of strong teams or when most teams are close in strength? The first scenario best defines 19-4a and the second best defines 20-4a. However when you look at it from the perspective of a consistently strong team like Ned, 20-4a looks less competitive. However, if you look at dayton in 19-4a, which likewise is consistently strong, the situation is ironically competitive from their perspective. This is because they have a few teams frequently in their district (BH, crosby) that are close to their level of ability.

In conclusion, I find dayton's playoff streak very impressive. Although 20-4a usually has a pretty solid PNG squad and these past 2 years an inspiring Vidor team, I would argue that Ned does not have to struggle as much as the better teams in 19-4a do to make the playoffs.
[/quote]

I disagree, 20-4a usually has at least 5 teams that are in close competition for 4 spots, with the last spot usually coming down to head-to head or a 3 way tie breaker.  19-4a was pretty much set , [b]with 5th place 3 games out.[/b]  Ned has struggled plenty, including the couple of years of widespread injuries to key players and still made the playoffs.  As far as strong teams, most of the time it is a 2-2 split with 19 in bi-district with a few 3-1 one way or the other.
[/quote]Why do you say 5th place three games out? KP finished 5th and was 6-4 one game behind Barbers Hill. King didn't lose to a team all last year that finished with less than 6 wins and they finished in 6th place 2 games out. Humble is the one that finished three games behind BH in 7th place. So 6 teams competing for one potential spot isn't harder than 5 competing for 4? KP and King would have most likely made the playoffs last year in 20-4A. 

[dustoff03]

sounds like another 19-4a is better that 20-4a thread. ::)

[bh89-2]

[quote name="dustoff03" post="1404959" timestamp="1368661203"]
sounds like another 19-4a is better that 20-4a thread. ::)
[/quote]

Why would that happen.  We already know thats the case and certainly the trending reality...... ;D ;D ;D  It's the water brother, don't cross that Trinity..... ;)

[Mr. Buddy Garrity]

[quote name="Smoking Baby Again" post="1404981" timestamp="1368663760"]
[quote author=dustoff03 link=topic=111977.msg1404959#msg1404959 date=1368661203]
sounds like another 19-4a is better that 20-4a thread. ::)
[/quote]

Why would that happen.  We already know thats the case and certainly the trending reality...... ;D ;D ;D  It's the water brother, don't cross that Trinity..... ;)
[/quote] whats a Trinity? sounds like dirty water

[dustoff03]

[quote name="Smoking Baby Again" post="1404981" timestamp="1368663760"]
[quote author=dustoff03 link=topic=111977.msg1404959#msg1404959 date=1368661203]
sounds like another 19-4a is better that 20-4a thread. ::)
[/quote]

Why would that happen.  We already know thats the case and certainly the trending reality...... ;D ;D ;D  It's the water brother, don't cross that Trinity..... ;)
[/quote]
;D and ya'll need to quit drinking from it.