Can Taleted Basketball Programs Win State Without Beliving in there Coach?

[BLUEDOVE3]

[quote name="JRidge" post="1419829" timestamp="1374121319"]

[quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=112884.msg1419550#msg1419550 date=1374035126]
[quote author=shooter link=topic=112884.msg1419353#msg1419353 date=1374004435]
Yes, you can win if the talent is there, but you can achieve unbelievable things when everyone is on the same page. If the talent is average or nearly equal to the opponent, coaching can be the difference. A players belief in his coach(es) derives from his communication skills, practice and game organization, evaluation and adaption to player skill sets, his self-discipline and his abillity to hold everyone associated with the program equally accountable for TEAM success. A coach who operates with his ego will abandon the one thing he needs most, his players.

[/quote] let me interject same thought but written differently:

Coaches[color=red] must[/color] 'connect' with their players before they can lead them. You gotta have the respect from your players.  You can have all the talent in the world...................................

Even though this is probably an effective way, I believe in the old skool way of coaching! (Do as you are told) because you may not be able to connect with every player but every player should know what is expected of them from their coach! We were taught to respect all adults so this was automatically given to our coaches! Coaches coach and players play and that was that, too many kids now-a-days are brought up to be able to voice their dislikes are allowed to rebel if they don't agree with something! They either transfer out or sometimes  even sabatoge a season based on how they feel about a coach! This even sometimes hurts them in the future dealing with bosses or spouses, they often leave their job or marriage because they haven't learned to support somethig or someone they don't fully agree with! Looking at the way these professional athletes get in trouble now-a-days, I prefer that kids are prepared to become good, successful citizens 
[/quote]
[/quote] Those times are somewhat gone. There was a time when teachers were looked upon almost like Gods. Not anymore. You have to double-check them now to make sure they are following the rules, not showing favoritism , etc. Same rule seems to apply in the coaching profession now. ;)

[stevenash]

[quote name="BLUEDOVE3" post="1419841" timestamp="1374139547"]
[quote author=JRidge link=topic=112884.msg1419829#msg1419829 date=1374121319]

[quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=112884.msg1419550#msg1419550 date=1374035126]
[quote author=shooter link=topic=112884.msg1419353#msg1419353 date=1374004435]
Yes, you can win if the talent is there, but you can achieve unbelievable things when everyone is on the same page. If the talent is average or nearly equal to the opponent, coaching can be the difference. A players belief in his coach(es) derives from his communication skills, practice and game organization, evaluation and adaption to player skill sets, his self-discipline and his abillity to hold everyone associated with the program equally accountable for TEAM success. A coach who operates with his ego will abandon the one thing he needs most, his players.

[/quote] let me interject same thought but written differently:

Coaches[color=red] must[/color] 'connect' with their players before they can lead them. You gotta have the respect from your players.  You can have all the talent in the world...................................

Even though this is probably an effective way, I believe in the old skool way of coaching! (Do as you are told) because you may not be able to connect with every player but every player should know what is expected of them from their coach! We were taught to respect all adults so this was automatically given to our coaches! Coaches coach and players play and that was that, too many kids now-a-days are brought up to be able to voice their dislikes are allowed to rebel if they don't agree with something! They either transfer out or sometimes  even sabatoge a season based on how they feel about a coach! This even sometimes hurts them in the future dealing with bosses or spouses, they often leave their job or marriage because they haven't learned to support somethig or someone they don't fully agree with! Looking at the way these professional athletes get in trouble now-a-days, I prefer that kids are prepared to become good, successful citizens 
[/quote]
[/quote] Those times are somewhat gone. There was a time when teachers were looked upon almost like Gods. Not anymore. You have to double-check them now to make sure they are following the rules, not showing favoritism , etc. Same rule seems to apply in the coaching profession now. ;)
[/quote]

Dove, Society is responsible for this by moving to far left.

[JRidge]

Bluedove3 are you saying that kids should not be taught to respect adults like we were taught! My kids are taught this way still and told if an adult get's out of line with you, stay in a childs place and let theparents who are adults deal with the adults! Kids don't have to agree with the teacher or coaches way of coaching, to me they are there to learn what they have to teach them! Of course I do believe we had better teachers in the past then now but our responsibility is to teach our kids how to be respectful and learn to follow instructions before they can lead and give them! The question is; can a talented team win state without players/parents believing in and supporting there coach! A house divided can not stand, but who's system or phylosophy should players follow, their's or their coaches? Should the coach follow his own phylosophy and system or should he follow the players?
[quote name="BLUEDOVE3" post="1419841" timestamp="1374139547"]
[quote author=JRidge link=topic=112884.msg1419829#msg1419829 date=1374121319]

[quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=112884.msg1419550#msg1419550 date=1374035126]
[quote author=shooter link=topic=112884.msg1419353#msg1419353 date=1374004435]
Yes, you can win if the talent is there, but you can achieve unbelievable things when everyone is on the same page. If the talent is average or nearly equal to the opponent, coaching can be the difference. A players belief in his coach(es) derives from his communication skills, practice and game organization, evaluation and adaption to player skill sets, his self-discipline and his abillity to hold everyone associated with the program equally accountable for TEAM success. A coach who operates with his ego will abandon the one thing he needs most, his players.

[/quote] let me interject same thought but written differently:

Coaches[color=red] must[/color] 'connect' with their players before they can lead them. You gotta have the respect from your players.  You can have all the talent in the world...................................

Even though this is probably an effective way, I believe in the old skool way of coaching! (Do as you are told) because you may not be able to connect with every player but every player should know what is expected of them from their coach! We were taught to respect all adults so this was automatically given to our coaches! Coaches coach and players play and that was that, too many kids now-a-days are brought up to be able to voice their dislikes are allowed to rebel if they don't agree with something! They either transfer out or sometimes  even sabatoge a season based on how they feel about a coach! This even sometimes hurts them in the future dealing with bosses or spouses, they often leave their job or marriage because they haven't learned to support somethig or someone they don't fully agree with! Looking at the way these professional athletes get in trouble now-a-days, I prefer that kids are prepared to become good, successful citizens 
[/quote]
[/quote] Those times are somewhat gone. There was a time when teachers were looked upon almost like Gods. Not anymore. You have to double-check them now to make sure they are following the rules, not showing favoritism , etc. Same rule seems to apply in the coaching profession now. ;)
[/quote]

[AthleticSupporter - Jock]

[quote name="BLUEDOVE3" post="1419841" timestamp="1374139547"]
[quote author=JRidge link=topic=112884.msg1419829#msg1419829 date=1374121319]

[quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=112884.msg1419550#msg1419550 date=1374035126]
[quote author=shooter link=topic=112884.msg1419353#msg1419353 date=1374004435]
Yes, you can win if the talent is there, but you can achieve unbelievable things when everyone is on the same page. If the talent is average or nearly equal to the opponent, coaching can be the difference. A players belief in his coach(es) derives from his communication skills, practice and game organization, evaluation and adaption to player skill sets, his self-discipline and his abillity to hold everyone associated with the program equally accountable for TEAM success. A coach who operates with his ego will abandon the one thing he needs most, his players.

[/quote] let me interject same thought but written differently:

Coaches[color=red] must[/color] 'connect' with their players before they can lead them. You gotta have the respect from your players.  You can have all the talent in the world...................................

Even though this is probably an effective way, I believe in the old skool way of coaching! (Do as you are told) because you may not be able to connect with every player but every player should know what is expected of them from their coach! We were taught to respect all adults so this was automatically given to our coaches! Coaches coach and players play and that was that, too many kids now-a-days are brought up to be able to voice their dislikes are allowed to rebel if they don't agree with something! They either transfer out or sometimes  even sabatoge a season based on how they feel about a coach! This even sometimes hurts them in the future dealing with bosses or spouses, they often leave their job or marriage because they haven't learned to support somethig or someone they don't fully agree with! Looking at the way these professional athletes get in trouble now-a-days, I prefer that kids are prepared to become good, successful citizens 
[/quote]
[/quote] Those times are somewhat gone. There was a time when teachers were looked upon almost like Gods. Not anymore. You have to double-check them now to make sure they are following the rules, not showing favoritism , etc. Same rule seems to apply in the coaching profession now. ;)
[/quote]

Is that true for every school though?  I don't hear of anyone at HJ having to double-check the coaches for following rules and favoritism???

[BLUEDOVE3]

[quote name="AthleticSupporter - Jock" post="1420091" timestamp="1374204213"]
[quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=112884.msg1419841#msg1419841 date=1374139547]
[quote author=JRidge link=topic=112884.msg1419829#msg1419829 date=1374121319]

[quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=112884.msg1419550#msg1419550 date=1374035126]
[quote author=shooter link=topic=112884.msg1419353#msg1419353 date=1374004435]
Yes, you can win if the talent is there, but you can achieve unbelievable things when everyone is on the same page. If the talent is average or nearly equal to the opponent, coaching can be the difference. A players belief in his coach(es) derives from his communication skills, practice and game organization, evaluation and adaption to player skill sets, his self-discipline and his abillity to hold everyone associated with the program equally accountable for TEAM success. A coach who operates with his ego will abandon the one thing he needs most, his players.

[/quote] let me interject same thought but written differently:

Coaches[color=red] must[/color] 'connect' with their players before they can lead them. You gotta have the respect from your players.  You can have all the talent in the world...................................

Even though this is probably an effective way, I believe in the old skool way of coaching! (Do as you are told) because you may not be able to connect with every player but every player should know what is expected of them from their coach! We were taught to respect all adults so this was automatically given to our coaches! Coaches coach and players play and that was that, too many kids now-a-days are brought up to be able to voice their dislikes are allowed to rebel if they don't agree with something! They either transfer out or sometimes  even sabatoge a season based on how they feel about a coach! This even sometimes hurts them in the future dealing with bosses or spouses, they often leave their job or marriage because they haven't learned to support somethig or someone they don't fully agree with! Looking at the way these professional athletes get in trouble now-a-days, I prefer that kids are prepared to become good, successful citizens 
[/quote]
[/quote] Those times are somewhat gone. There was a time when teachers were looked upon almost like Gods. Not anymore. You have to double-check them now to make sure they are following the rules, not showing favoritism , etc. Same rule seems to apply in the coaching profession now. ;)
[/quote]

Is that true for every school though?  I don't hear of anyone at HJ having to double-check the coaches for following rules and favoritism???
[/quote] I have, but it was a few years ago  ;D

[BLUEDOVE3]

[quote name="JRidge" post="1419998" timestamp="1374178854"]
Bluedove3 are you saying that kids should not be taught to respect adults like we were taught! My kids are taught this way still and told if an adult get's out of line with you, stay in a childs place and let theparents who are adults deal with the adults! Kids don't have to agree with the teacher or coaches way of coaching, to me they are there to learn what they have to teach them! Of course I do believe we had better teachers in the past then now but our responsibility is to teach our kids how to be respectful and learn to follow instructions before they can lead and give them! The question is; can a talented team win state without players/parents believing in and supporting there coach! A house divided can not stand, but who's system or phylosophy should players follow, their's or their coaches? Should the coach follow his own phylosophy and system or should he follow the players?
[quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=112884.msg1419841#msg1419841 date=1374139547]

[/quote]Nope! Kids should respect their elders. But thats also a two-way street. Some coaches earn their players respect and follow their system. Some teams have bad apples and rotten the rest.

[AthleticSupporter - Jock]

There's a big difference right there.  Many kids are now taught that they only have to respect the adult/coach if the child is also respected.  If I would have told my dad that I quit, talked back or acted out because the coach disrespected me, I would have been getting a real beating at home.  I admit I'm out of touch with the younger parents today.  For some, it seems perfectly logical that Aaron Hernandez would throw away tens of millions cuz his buddy disrespected him.  Hernandez represents the mindset of many parents of school age children today. 

[stevenash]

[quote name="AthleticSupporter - Jock" post="1420168" timestamp="1374255315"]
There's a big difference right there.  Many kids are now taught that they only have to respect the adult/coach if the child is also respected.  If I would have told my dad that I quit, talked back or acted out because the coach disrespected me, I would have been getting a real beating at home.  I admit I'm out of touch with the younger parents today.  For some, it seems perfectly logical that Aaron Hernandez would throw away tens of millions cuz his buddy disrespected him.  [b]Hernandez represents the mindset of many [b]parents of school age children today. [/b] [/quote][/b]

AMEN to that

[JRidge]

AthleticSupporter-Jock, I feel you on this one! I too was raised the same and realise this is the case, mostly with yong parents! Respect is to be given whether or not it is reciprocated! The parents then should address the disrespectful coach and not the child! Society has twisted it around and you then get kids with disrespectful attitudes and outrageous behavior like an Aaron Hernandez who feels he can do what he wants if someone disrespects him! We must becareful what we teach our kids!
[quote name="AthleticSupporter - Jock" post="1420168" timestamp="1374255315"]
There's a big difference right there.  Many kids are now taught that they only have to respect the adult/coach if the child is also respected.  If I would have told my dad that I quit, talked back or acted out because the coach disrespected me, I would have been getting a real beating at home.  I admit I'm out of touch with the younger parents today.  For some, it seems perfectly logical that Aaron Hernandez would throw away tens of millions cuz his buddy disrespected him.  Hernandez represents the mindset of many parents of school age children today.
[/quote]

[BLUEDOVE3]

[quote name="AthleticSupporter - Jock" post="1420168" timestamp="1374255315"]
There's a big difference right there.  Many kids are now taught that they only have to respect the adult/coach if the child is also respected.  If I would have told my dad that I quit, talked back or acted out because the coach disrespected me, I would have been getting a real beating at home.  I admit I'm out of touch with the younger parents today.  For some, it seems perfectly logical that Aaron Hernandez would throw away tens of millions cuz his buddy disrespected him.  Hernandez represents the mindset of many parents of school age children today.
[/quote] Oh well, I guess I'll go back to these previous msgs. Supporter, as usual you are a little extreme with your analysis.

[AthleticSupporter - Jock]

[quote name="BLUEDOVE3" post="1420668" timestamp="1375398105"]
[quote author=AthleticSupporter - Jock link=topic=112884.msg1420168#msg1420168 date=1374255315]
There's a big difference right there.  Many kids are now taught that they only have to respect the adult/coach if the child is also respected.  If I would have told my dad that I quit, talked back or acted out because the coach disrespected me, I would have been getting a real beating at home.  I admit I'm out of touch with the younger parents today.  For some, it seems perfectly logical that Aaron Hernandez would throw away tens of millions cuz his buddy disrespected him.  Hernandez represents the mindset of many parents of school age children today.
[/quote] Oh well, I guess I'll go back to these previous msgs. Supporter, as usual you are a little extreme with your analysis.
[/quote]

I agree that some people will consider my views and opinions extreme, but that doesn't mean they are not accurate.  Do you agree?

[BLUEDOVE3]

[quote name="AthleticSupporter - Jock" post="1420793" timestamp="1375459220"]
[quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=112884.msg1420668#msg1420668 date=1375398105]
[quote author=AthleticSupporter - Jock link=topic=112884.msg1420168#msg1420168 date=1374255315]
There's a big difference right there.  Many kids are now taught that they only have to respect the adult/coach if the child is also respected.  If I would have told my dad that I quit, talked back or acted out because the coach disrespected me, I would have been getting a real beating at home.  I admit I'm out of touch with the younger parents today.  For some, it seems perfectly logical that Aaron Hernandez would throw away tens of millions cuz his buddy disrespected him.  Hernandez represents the mindset of many parents of school age children today.
[/quote] Oh well, I guess I'll go back to these previous msgs. Supporter, as usual you are a little extreme with your analysis.
[/quote]

I agree that some people will consider my views and opinions extreme, but that doesn't mean they are not accurate.  Do you agree?
[/quote] Your comment, " For some, it seems perfectly logical that Aaron Hernandez would throw away tens of millions cuz his buddy disrespected him.  Hernandez represents the mindset of many parents of school age children today," maybe your comments had me thinking too extreme that you were thinking too extreme.  ;D

[BLUEDOVE3]

Ol' (not old) Stevie Nash will like this reference:

Edit* Alford had agreed to a contract extension with his former school, New Mexico, two weeks before he said yes to the Bruins.[color=red] Wooden,[/color] then at Indiana State, had two job offers and badly wanted one, the University of Minnesota's. But when the Gophers didn't call at the appointed time, and UCLA did, Wooden took the Bruins job. Soon, he found out that Minnesota was ready to offer him the job but couldn't call because an ice storm had knocked out the power. Wooden had made a commitment to UCLA, and, because he had, he stuck to it.

[color=red]What a novel idea.[/color] [color=red]It's the kind of principle that [u]modern-era coaches demand of their players and ignore themselves.[/color]

[stevenash]

[quote name="BLUEDOVE3" post="1422573" timestamp="1375977321"]
Ol' (not old) Stevie Nash will like this reference:

Edit* Alford had agreed to a contract extension with his former school, New Mexico, two weeks before he said yes to the Bruins.[color=red] Wooden,[/color] then at Indiana State, had two job offers and badly wanted one, the University of Minnesota's. But when the Gophers didn't call at the appointed time, and UCLA did, Wooden took the Bruins job. Soon, he found out that Minnesota was ready to offer him the job but couldn't call because an ice storm had knocked out the power. Wooden had made a commitment to UCLA, and, because he had, he stuck to it.

[color=red]What a novel idea.[/color] [color=red]It's the kind of principle that [u]modern-era coaches demand of their players and ignore themselves.[/color]
[/quote]

Dove, does this have anything to do with your new Lobos logo?

[BLUEDOVE3]

[quote name="Stevenash" post="1422613" timestamp="1375982007"]
[quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=112884.msg1422573#msg1422573 date=1375977321]
Ol' (not old) Stevie Nash will like this reference:

Edit* Alford had agreed to a contract extension with his former school, New Mexico, two weeks before he said yes to the Bruins.[color=red] Wooden,[/color] then at Indiana State, had two job offers and badly wanted one, the University of Minnesota's. But when the Gophers didn't call at the appointed time, and UCLA did, Wooden took the Bruins job. Soon, he found out that Minnesota was ready to offer him the job but couldn't call because an ice storm had knocked out the power. Wooden had made a commitment to UCLA, and, because he had, he stuck to it.

[color=red]What a novel idea.[/color] [color=red]It's the kind of principle that [u]modern-era coaches demand of their players and ignore themselves.[/color]
[/quote]

Dove, does this have anything to do with your new Lobos logo?
[/quote] Just a coincidence!! I was reading about Steve Alford @ UCLA. He just left New Mexico.  I thought you would love the Wooden loyalty versus the new school coaching.