Wins can be bought

[Whocanitbenow]

Money matters
2013-08-23 07:30:00


Greg Tepper tackles the question: do richer schools have an advantage in Texas high school football?

http://www.texasfootball.com/highschool-news/view/180458





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[NorthoftheBorder]

Great analysis!!  You don't have to have the raw hard data to see this but the data sure brings it home!!

[Whocanitbenow]

[quote name="NorthoftheBorder" post="1427274" timestamp="1377402285"]
Great analysis!!  You don't have to have the raw hard data to see this but the data sure brings it home!!
[/quote]
Absolutely! There's a reason Allen,Southlake,Katy,Lake Travis continue to dominate every year!

[TradinUp BH]

BH should be winning a state title soon  ;D

[tvc184]

[quote name="Whocanitbenow" post="1427281" timestamp="1377403500"]
[quote author=NorthoftheBorder link=topic=113551.msg1427274#msg1427274 date=1377402285]
Great analysis!!  You don't have to have the raw hard data to see this but the data sure brings it home!!
[/quote]
Absolutely! [size=10pt][b]There's a reason[/b][/size] Allen,Southlake,Katy,Lake Travis continue to dominate every year!
[/quote]

And the reason is the price of the homes they live in?

[Whocanitbenow]

[quote name="tvc" post="1427298" timestamp="1377406939"]
[quote author=Whocanitbenow link=topic=113551.msg1427281#msg1427281 date=1377403500]
[quote author=NorthoftheBorder link=topic=113551.msg1427274#msg1427274 date=1377402285]
Great analysis!!  You don't have to have the raw hard data to see this but the data sure brings it home!!
[/quote]
Absolutely! [size=10pt][b]There's a reason[/b][/size] Allen,Southlake,Katy,Lake Travis continue to dominate every year!
[/quote]

And the reason is the price of the homes they live in?
[/quote]
No sir the reason is they have superior facilities, coaches, and anything else money can buy. That leads to state championships. If you're not willing to spend with the big boys you're not going to be able to compete. Bottom line!

[Whocanitbenow]

You can't continue to do the same thing and expect different results. The proof is there. You have to spend to win.

[fwoodfan]

My problem with this article is this: Arent most 4a and 5a high schools located in higher income areas?  I mean in general income levels are higher in higher population areas -- that's why people move there.  The key is that the author limited his analysis to 4a and 5a schools. The percentage of 3A and 2A champions with a  median income above the state average would be much lower because smaller schools represent smaller communities where the income levels are likely to be lower.  As a result, I think the author overstates the impact of money on championships.

In addition, doing the analysis by zip code instead of school district boundaries seriously the statistical evidence.  Finally, just because people in the same zip code as a particular school have money doesnt always mean that the school has better facilities.  Friendswood is a great example of that.

[Guest ECBucFan]

And I guess Greg Teppers political point is supposed to be that the Government ought to subsidize [i]domed stadiums, Jumbotrons, palatial indoor practice facilities and state-of-the-art field surfaces[/i]  for every one of the "poor"?    ::)

Hasn't football been Socialized enough already? Why didn't he mention 4 teams out of 5 now "make" the playoffs.  In return, shouldn't the "poor" share a few of their guys that run 4.5's?   

[AggiesAreWe]

You ever see Newton's facilities and it's community?

They win, period.

[Guest Air Bisquit]

[quote name="Whocanitbenow" post="1427312" timestamp="1377410698"]
You can't continue to do the same thing and expect different results. The proof is there. [b]You have to spend to win[/b].
[/quote]

Wrong!!!

Stephenville does not even have their own stadium.
All they do is win.

Newton - All they do is win

Mart - small town, low income, Win

[badndn]

You guys keep pointing out the smaller schools 3A and down, but FWoodFans point was correct...sort of...At the 4A and 5A levels where there are more big money schools, the big money schools are winning. Its the big city suburban schools taking home the prize more often then not. When was the last time a Dallas, FW, Austin(and dont count Westlake cause it aint in the city), Houston, SA, EP team won a title?  Its because the rich kids spend all year training with their private speed and agility coach or strength and conditioning coach.
Think about, would you rather coach a handful of great athletes that work on FB from August to November or a team full of kids that eat, sleep, and breath FB 24/7.  Oh and the later choice pays twice as much!
I think the biggest difference in the two is the line play and QB play. The wealthy linemen goes 6'3" 270 and is fit and the QB spends all year learning the hardest position in sports. Where the poorer linemen is 6'3" 300 and slow and the QB is way behind the curve.

[Cowboy4jc]

I wonder how this theory plays out across other sports such as basketball, soccer, baseball, and girls sports like volleyball, girls basketball, and softball. If this were correct wouldn't the curve of multiple state championships play out across other sports outside of football?

[Whocanitbenow]

[quote name="AggiesAreWe" post="1427344" timestamp="1377439364"]
You ever see Newton's facilities and it's community?

They win, period.
[/quote]
Been quite a while since they won a title. Matter of fact it's been a pretty long time since any team from SE Texas(excluding greater Houston) has won a title. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[AggiesAreWe]

[quote name="Whocanitbenow" post="1427378" timestamp="1377443149"]
[quote author=AggiesAreWe link=topic=113551.msg1427344#msg1427344 date=1377439364]
You ever see Newton's facilities and it's community?

They win, period.
[/quote]
Been quite a while since they won a title. Matter of fact it's been a pretty long time since any team from SE Texas(excluding greater Houston) has won a title. Correct me if I'm wrong.
[/quote]


Get back with me this December.  ;)

[Whocanitbenow]

[quote name="Farmer Fran" post="1427349" timestamp="1377439874"]
[quote author=Whocanitbenow link=topic=113551.msg1427312#msg1427312 date=1377410698]
You can't continue to do the same thing and expect different results. The proof is there. [b]You have to spend to win[/b].
[/quote]

Wrong!!!

Stephenville does not even have their own stadium.
All they do is win.

Newton - All they do is win

Mart - small town, low income, Win
[/quote]
Mart has one of the nicest turf stadiums in the state. They may not have the household income of lots of these other schools but they have too flight facilities

[Whocanitbenow]

[quote name="AggiesAreWe" post="1427382" timestamp="1377443378"]
[quote author=Whocanitbenow link=topic=113551.msg1427378#msg1427378 date=1377443149]
[quote author=AggiesAreWe link=topic=113551.msg1427344#msg1427344 date=1377439364]
You ever see Newton's facilities and it's community?

They win, period.
[/quote]
Been quite a while since they won a title. Matter of fact it's been a pretty long time since any team from SE Texas(excluding greater Houston) has won a title. Correct me if I'm wrong.
[/quote]


Get back with me this December.  ;)
[/quote]
Cameron Yoe is still lurking out there  :o

[gary-us-bonds]

[quote name="TradinUp BH" post="1427289" timestamp="1377405837"]
BH should be winning a state title soon  ;D
[/quote]

They said higher incomes, not lower.

[dawgteeth]

[quote name="panamamyers" post="1427392" timestamp="1377445236"]
[quote author=TradinUp BH link=topic=113551.msg1427289#msg1427289 date=1377405837]
BH should be winning a state title soon  ;D
[/quote]

They said higher incomes, not lower.
[/quote]

;)

[fwoodfan]

[quote name="badndn" post="1427370" timestamp="1377441783"]
  Its because the rich kids spend all year training with their private speed and agility coach or strength and conditioning coach.
Think about, would you rather coach a handful of great athletes that work on FB from August to November or a team full of kids that eat, sleep, and breath FB 24/7.  Oh and the later choice pays twice as much!
[b]I think the biggest difference in the two is the line play and QB play. The wealthy linemen goes 6'3" 270 and is fit and the QB spends all year learning the hardest position in sports. Where the poorer linemen is 6'3" 300 and slow and the QB is way behind the curve.[/b]
[/quote]

This is true.  Wealthier kids do have more time and resources to spend on preparing for the season,  but thats not the same as saying schools with better facilities win (which is what the article implies).

Your point about the Oline is damn right.  Oline play is the key to offensive success.  It aint glamorous and it doesnt make the highlight film, but without solid Oline play the QB doesnt throw touchdowns, the WR dont get the ball, and the RB doesnt run for 150 yds a game.  And, you are also right in stating that big boys from wealthier areas devote much of their ample free time to working out and training to get better.

[cougar14]

[quote name="Now What?" post="1427377" timestamp="1377442941"]
I wonder how this theory plays out across other sports such as basketball, soccer, baseball, and girls sports like volleyball, girls basketball, and softball. If this were correct wouldn't the curve of multiple state championships play out across other sports outside of football?
[/quote]It's even more evident in other sports. Take BH for instance, they don't have the best athletes but there are parents there that will pay 3-5k a year for kid to play baseball or softball, same for golf. That translates in high school as you can see both high school teams were ranked #1 at one point. The Klein and Cy schools dominate soccer in the region due to their money. In football I still think it's more coaching than anything else even though you can't be short on talent. Prime example is Steve Lineweaver, his Commerce teams played for four 3A titles in eight years and won 2. He left and went to Euless Trinity where he's won three more 5A titles. Commerce might be one of the poorest places in East Texas and Euless' Polynesian community is by no means affluent. Lineweaver probably makes over 115k though so Trinity is definitely getting their money's worth.

[Whocanitbenow]

[quote name="cougar14" post="1427738" timestamp="1377487922"]
[quote author=Now What? link=topic=113551.msg1427377#msg1427377 date=1377442941]
I wonder how this theory plays out across other sports such as basketball, soccer, baseball, and girls sports like volleyball, girls basketball, and softball. If this were correct wouldn't the curve of multiple state championships play out across other sports outside of football?
[/quote]It's even more evident in other sports. Take BH for instance, they don't have the best athletes but there are parents there that will pay 3-5k a year for kid to play baseball or softball, same for golf. That translates in high school as you can see both high school teams were ranked #1 at one point. The Klein and Cy schools dominate soccer in the region due to their money. In football I still think it's more coaching than anything else even though you can't be short on talent. Prime example is Steve Lineweaver, his Commerce teams played for four 3A titles in eight years and won 2. He left and went to Euless Trinity where he's won three more 5A titles. Commerce might be one of the poorest places in East Texas and Euless' Polynesian community is by no means affluent. Lineweaver probably makes over 115k though so Trinity is definitely getting their money's worth.
[/quote]
Lineweaver is the best high school coach in Texas bottom line

[cougar14]

[quote name="Whocanitbenow" post="1427908" timestamp="1377536326"]
[quote author=cougar14 link=topic=113551.msg1427738#msg1427738 date=1377487922]
[quote author=Now What? link=topic=113551.msg1427377#msg1427377 date=1377442941]
I wonder how this theory plays out across other sports such as basketball, soccer, baseball, and girls sports like volleyball, girls basketball, and softball. If this were correct wouldn't the curve of multiple state championships play out across other sports outside of football?
[/quote]It's even more evident in other sports. Take BH for instance, they don't have the best athletes but there are parents there that will pay 3-5k a year for kid to play baseball or softball, same for golf. That translates in high school as you can see both high school teams were ranked #1 at one point. The Klein and Cy schools dominate soccer in the region due to their money. In football I still think it's more coaching than anything else even though you can't be short on talent. Prime example is Steve Lineweaver, his Commerce teams played for four 3A titles in eight years and won 2. He left and went to Euless Trinity where he's won three more 5A titles. Commerce might be one of the poorest places in East Texas and Euless' Polynesian community is by no means affluent. Lineweaver probably makes over 115k though so Trinity is definitely getting their money's worth.
[/quote]
Lineweaver is the best high school coach in Texas bottom line
[/quote]I honestly believe so too. He's approaching mythical status. A couple more titles will give him 7 overall and at least 10 title game appearances. He may be the best to ever wear a headset in Texas and he's done it all public schools.

[badndn]

[quote name="Now What?" post="1427377" timestamp="1377442941"]
I wonder how this theory plays out across other sports such as basketball, soccer, baseball, and girls sports like volleyball, girls basketball, and softball. If this were correct wouldn't the curve of multiple state championships play out across other sports outside of football?
[/quote]
Basketball is the only sport were the inner city schools thrive, but to be fair it only takes two standouts in basketball to win a state title. In a big city school with 1500-2500 students there are going to often times be a few kids that are doing the AAU thing. Also seems like the big city schools have started hanging their hats on basketball. It is a much cheeper sport than football.

Baseball, Softball, Voleyball...It's most of the same schools mentioned in the football article. Or at least schools from similiar demographics.