Hardin Hornets Non-District games

[H-D BOBCAT 55]

Hardin gets players to the next level, if they are worthy. I am certain HD does as well. Who was the last D-1 athlete out of Daisetta?
Only one "active" I can think of from Hardin right now, is Mitchell. Last Off. lineman to play D-1 was Nunan, but I could be wrong. That was 13 years ago. Scatright - Feeling old?

Juan Gamez and Kade Brett maybe.

[HIGHpoint96]

For the love of god people stop saying that its the coaches job to get a kid noticed for a scholarship. Talent gets you recruited not your high school coach. A coach can scream all day to come look at this kid or that kid but if there isnt talent there it wont matter. not to mention if a coach tells a recruiter that he thinks a kid can play college ball and he actually cant, then the next time that recruiter comes through he will think the coach doesnt have a clue and wont listen to him the next time he says a kid can play. Coaches dont get kids recruited.

[camsdad]

Yea actually coaches play a pretty big role in the recruiting process but its certainly not entirely up to the coach.

[HDBobcats9]

I had a conversation with HD 55 over the weekend, and we talked about kids getting recognized at small schools. We agree that with recruiting services, youtube, hudl and all the other social media outlets available that if a kid can play, a kid will usually get noticed. That's not always the case though. I can assure you that a kid at a 2A school that goes deep in the playoffs will probably get more looks than a kid on a 2-8 4A team (unless that school is on a down year and known for producing next level talent). With that being said, a kid that is a dominant player at a good 4A school will get many more looks than a kid on a good 2A school. It's simple and I don't think anyone would disagree with this.

 

The point I made to HD 55 was a personal example of my recruiting when I was in school. After a very successful junior year, I had the opportunity to move to a larger school to get more recognition but I wanted to stay and battle with my schoolmates who'd I'd grown up with. I was an all-state selection as a senior on an HD team that went 2-8 and didn't sniff the playoffs. I got one DI offer (Air Force) and three DII offers along with a handful of DIII and NAIA schools. I signed my letter of intent with (Southwest) Texas State and was committed to the Bobcats. I quit the basketball team in hopes of jumping back on the radar of another DI team before national signing day. It didn't happen. Three days before national signing day I broke my foot in three places playing winter baseball. (which I was asked not to do by SWT coaching staff). I called my recruiter and informed him of the injury and that I'd been playing baseball. He passed it on and the next day they called and informed me that they were no longer extening an offer of full athletic scholarship. They told me that I was a gamble and a roll of the dice already because of the talent level they had seen me play against. I said hey, I'm 230lbs and run a 4.58 and make straight A's. If I was Emmitt Smith I don't think ya'll would be telling me this. He laughed and said "Don't kid yourself, you're not Emmitt Smith!" I was devastated and decided not to go to SWT. I called Coach Pierce at SFA in Nacogdoches and they had already given all their available scholarships away as well. They gave me their word that I'd be an invited walk-on and they had full rides freeing up in the spring and that I could get on scholarship then and that they'd do what they could to help me out with academic scholarships and aid to pay for my fall semester. (some academic scholarships are available for student athletes only). A torn ACL and poor work ethic and a bad attitude ended it all anyway. I never got right mentally to prepare myself for the playing on the next level after my scholarship offer was rescended.

 

The whole point of that long story, was that I still regret the fact at times that I did not move to a larger school to increase my visibility and opportunities. I played in two all-star games that let me know that I could compete with 4A/5A kids, but I didn't make the call, despite the fact that my parents supported it if I wanted to transfer. Maybe I would have got lost in the shuffle and never played at a high level. I may have been exposed for being too short or too slow or a ton of other things. Or I could have excelled against higher competition and secured DI offers. Who knows. I know if I could do it all over again, knowing that we went 2-8 and the mistakes I made afterwards, I would have transfered in a heartbeat. Granted that was a different time and place without as many opportunites for exposure as kids have today, but I promise that college coaches think about level of competition when viewing game film. If the big kid from Hardin is dominating a 5'9" 180lb defensive end from Huntington, that's not quite as impressive as dominating a 6'3" 245lb defensive end from North Shore. Sometimes that's the difference between getting a ride to Lamar as opposed to LSU, and sometimes it's the difference between getting a ride from Lamar or no ride at all.

 

I'm a die hard Hull-Daisetta Bobcat. My son is not even 2 years old, so who knows if he'll even play football. I will support him in whatever direction he chooses to go. But if he is a talented prospect and appears to have next level talent, by his sophomore year he will be playing for a large school that gets the best out of its kids and sends kids to the next level regularly. Now if he's not there yet or not going to get there, then he can go to school wherever he's grown up and comfortable with. Nothing like the small school experience and maybe going to an HD is his best chance of being on the field and getting to play. If that's the case, he'll be at HD or Hardin, or Warren or the likes, loving high school football like most of us on here have.

[workbootz]

Hardin gets players to the next level, if they are worthy. I am certain HD does as well. Who was the last D-1 athlete out of Daisetta?
Only one "active" I can think of from Hardin right now, is Mitchell. Last Off. lineman to play D-1 was Nunan, but I could be wrong. That was 13 years ago. Scatright - Feeling old?

Winters was the last D-1 player from HD...if I'm not mistaken him and Nunan played at SFA together.

[Scatright]

Hardin gets players to the next level, if they are worthy. I am certain HD does as well. Who was the last D-1 athlete out of Daisetta?

Only one "active" I can think of from Hardin right now, is Mitchell. Last Off. lineman to play D-1 was Nunan, but I could be wrong. That was 13 years ago. Scatright - Feeling old?

 

 

I've been feeling old!  Kids I went to school with have kids that are in junior high!  That's the day I started feeling old!

[Guest]

I had a conversation with HD 55 over the weekend, and we talked about kids getting recognized at small schools. We agree that with recruiting services, youtube, hudl and all the other social media outlets available that if a kid can play, a kid will usually get noticed. That's not always the case though. I can assure you that a kid at a 2A school that goes deep in the playoffs will probably get more looks than a kid on a 2-8 4A team (unless that school is on a down year and known for producing next level talent). With that being said, a kid that is a dominant player at a good 4A school will get many more looks than a kid on a good 2A school. It's simple and I don't think anyone would disagree with this.

 

The point I made to HD 55 was a personal example of my recruiting when I was in school. After a very successful junior year, I had the opportunity to move to a larger school to get more recognition but I wanted to stay and battle with my schoolmates who'd I'd grown up with. I was an all-state selection as a senior on an HD team that went 2-8 and didn't sniff the playoffs. I got one DI offer (Air Force) and three DII offers along with a handful of DIII and NAIA schools. I signed my letter of intent with (Southwest) Texas State and was committed to the Bobcats. I quit the basketball team in hopes of jumping back on the radar of another DI team before national signing day. It didn't happen. Three days before national signing day I broke my foot in three places playing winter baseball. (which I was asked not to do by SWT coaching staff). I called my recruiter and informed him of the injury and that I'd been playing baseball. He passed it on and the next day they called and informed me that they were no longer extening an offer of full athletic scholarship. They told me that I was a gamble and a roll of the dice already because of the talent level they had seen me play against. I said hey, I'm 230lbs and run a 4.58 and make straight A's. If I was Emmitt Smith I don't think ya'll would be telling me this. He laughed and said "Don't kid yourself, you're not Emmitt Smith!" I was devastated and decided not to go to SWT. I called Coach Pierce at SFA in Nacogdoches and they had already given all their available scholarships away as well. They gave me their word that I'd be an invited walk-on and they had full rides freeing up in the spring and that I could get on scholarship then and that they'd do what they could to help me out with academic scholarships and aid to pay for my fall semester. (some academic scholarships are available for student athletes only). A torn ACL and poor work ethic and a bad attitude ended it all anyway. I never got right mentally to prepare myself for the playing on the next level after my scholarship offer was rescended.

 

The whole point of that long story, was that I still regret the fact at times that I did not move to a larger school to increase my visibility and opportunities. I played in two all-star games that let me know that I could compete with 4A/5A kids, but I didn't make the call, despite the fact that my parents supported it if I wanted to transfer. Maybe I would have got lost in the shuffle and never played at a high level. I may have been exposed for being too short or too slow or a ton of other things. Or I could have excelled against higher competition and secured DI offers. Who knows. I know if I could do it all over again, knowing that we went 2-8 and the mistakes I made afterwards, I would have transfered in a heartbeat. Granted that was a different time and place without as many opportunites for exposure as kids have today, but I promise that college coaches think about level of competition when viewing game film. If the big kid from Hardin is dominating a 5'9" 180lb defensive end from Huntington, that's not quite as impressive as dominating a 6'3" 245lb defensive end from North Shore. Sometimes that's the difference between getting a ride to Lamar as opposed to LSU, and sometimes it's the difference between getting a ride from Lamar or no ride at all.

 

I'm a die hard Hull-Daisetta Bobcat. My son is not even 2 years old, so who knows if he'll even play football. I will support him in whatever direction he chooses to go. But if he is a talented prospect and appears to have next level talent, by his sophomore year he will be playing for a large school that gets the best out of its kids and sends kids to the next level regularly. Now if he's not there yet or not going to get there, then he can go to school wherever he's grown up and comfortable with. Nothing like the small school experience and maybe going to an HD is his best chance of being on the field and getting to play. If that's the case, he'll be at HD or Hardin, or Warren or the likes, loving high school football like most of us on here have.

If I followed you correctly, you had a D1 offer but lost it due to injury? Or did you lose it due to playing at a 2A school?

[HDBobcats9]

If I followed you correctly, you had a D1 offer but lost it due to injury? Or did you lose it due to playing at a 2A school?

Ultimately it was lost from injury. I was told that if my level of competition would have been higher that there was a possibility of them still honoring my scholarship. I was told that they couldn't clearly evaluate my talent due to poor competition and that I was a "high risk" recruit even before the injury. That could have been a nice way of saying that if I was a little better they'd still honor it.....not sure.

[Guest]

For the love of god people stop saying that its the coaches job to get a kid noticed for a scholarship. Talent gets you recruited not your high school coach. A coach can scream all day to come look at this kid or that kid but if there isnt talent there it wont matter. not to mention if a coach tells a recruiter that he thinks a kid can play college ball and he actually cant, then the next time that recruiter comes through he will think the coach doesnt have a clue and wont listen to him the next time he says a kid can play. Coaches dont get kids recruited.

You have zero knowledge of the process.

[oldschool2]

You have zero knowledge of the process.

haha.. Exactly what I was thinking.

[texas13]

You have zero knowledge of the process.

he was halfway right with his statement just sometimes they realize a coach misevaluates talent but a kid get recruited if he can play. You cant depend on a coach if your good enough they will find you

[OLDGREGG]

If the coach has to make calls to get the kid recruited, then the kid must not be that good. The ones who are good enough will be found

[HIGHpoint96]

I have a ton of knowledge about the situation actually. I was a high school athlete that was 1st team all greater houston area at a 4A school, wasnt being recruited however because i was slightly undersized. My coaches told every recruiter that came through that I could play college ball, sent out film to every D 1AA D2 D3 school they could find, told me to go to camps for schools i could play at and pumped me up till they were blue in the face. Yet i still had to walk on at a D2 school and ended up getting a scholarship and playing my last 2 years. So I do know exactly how the process works, the only people who blame coaches for not getting kids recruited are players who arent good enough to play at the next level and wanna blame someone or their parents. No matter what a coach says about a recruit, if the kid doesnt pass the eyeball test most college coaches wont think twice about that kid. Coaches dont get kids recruited, talent height weight and speed get kids recruited plain and simple. If you think other wise then you are absolutely clueless about the process.

[HIGHpoint96]

Also my brother and father are high school coaches and they will tell you the same exact thing. Coaches dont get kids recruited. If Dan Hooks says a kid can play then the college coach will listen, but thats because the college coach knows that he has coached 40-60 (probably more) D1 kids and a bunch of NFL guys to boot. However Walter Fortune at Hardin (or your typical high school coach) can scream till hes blue in the face about one of his Hardin players but if the college coach puts on the film or calls him out of class and the kid doesnt pass the eyeball test the college coach will then say to himself, oh hes just a 2A football coach that doesnt see real college talent everyday. 

[Guest]

I have a ton of knowledge about the situation actually. I was a high school athlete that was 1st team all greater houston area at a 4A school, wasnt being recruited however because i was slightly undersized. My coaches told every recruiter that came through that I could play college ball, sent out film to every D 1AA D2 D3 school they could find, told me to go to camps for schools i could play at and pumped me up till they were blue in the face. Yet i still had to walk on at a D2 school and ended up getting a scholarship and playing my last 2 years. So I do know exactly how the process works, the only people who blame coaches for not getting kids recruited are players who arent good enough to play at the next level and wanna blame someone or their parents. No matter what a coach says about a recruit, if the kid doesnt pass the eyeball test most college coaches wont think twice about that kid. Coaches dont get kids recruited, talent height weight and speed get kids recruited plain and simple. If you think other wise then you are absolutely clueless about the process.

Walking on at a D2 school does not educate you on the recruiting process. How many coach's' meetings have you attended where players were discussed with recruiters? Did you actually sit in the meetings with your coaches while they talked to the recruiters? Did you watch them make the phone calls? Did you listen to their specific conversations?

[HIGHpoint96]

No I personally havent, but like i said my brother and father are coaches and they do every year, and they will tell you exactly what im saying. Also when I was going through the process everyday my coaches and father would tell me everything that took place. We talked to the coach from such and such school but they wouldnt listen to us because they dont like your size. How many meetings have you sat in on?

[HIGHpoint96]

I was a part of the process personally and have talked to countless coaches about the process and I know for a fact, unless you are a coach with a massive reputation the only thing that will make colleges sign kids is their talent. Because guess what if a college coach recruits abunch of kids from his area that never hit the field because he is going off of high school coaches recommendations  then that college coach will get fired. 

[Guest]

No I personally havent, but like i said my brother and father are coaches and they do every year, and they will tell you exactly what im saying. Also when I was going through the process everyday my coaches and father would tell me everything that took place. We talked to the coach from such and such school but they wouldnt listen to us because they dont like your size. How many meetings have you sat in on?

I have sat in a few. Ask your father how successful a player can be recruited without the endorsement of his coach?

[HIGHpoint96]

Yeah right I'm sure you have, so you must be a coach because otherwise how are you involved in these meetings, they aren't exactly open to the public. So in these meetings you were in supposedly, did the college coach not like a kid but the coach sold him and got him a scholarship, because if so then i guess I'm wrong. Also a kid not getting a coaches endorsement is a whole other ball of wax. The only time that happens is if a kid is lazy or a turd. We are talking about a coach getting a kid recruited, and that isn't how it works, talent gets you a scholarship not your high school coach, if you think otherwise you are ignorant to the truth bottom line. Sure a coach can speak negatively about a kid and stop him getting recruited but that's not what i'm talking about. 

[Guest]

Yeah right I'm sure you have, so you must be a coach because otherwise how are you involved in these meetings, they aren't exactly open to the public. So in these meetings you were in supposedly, did the college coach not like a kid but the coach sold him and got him a scholarship, because if so then i guess I'm wrong. Also a kid not getting a coaches endorsement is a whole other ball of wax. The only time that happens is if a kid is lazy or a turd. We are talking about a coach getting a kid recruited, and that isn't how it works, talent gets you a scholarship not your high school coach, if you think otherwise you are ignorant to the truth bottom line. Sure a coach can speak negatively about a kid and stop him getting recruited but that's not what i'm talking about. 

I agree, those meetings are not open to the public. The process usually begins with the recruiter asking the coach what he has or does he have anyone they need to take a look at. Recruiters have a difficult time making it to all the games in their recruiting regions especially at the 1A/2A level as referenced multiple times in this discussion. This is particularly relevant regarding positions that do not post prolific statistical data. The recruiter will then, pending direction from the coach, meet the player and will receive footage via HUDL or an alternate format from the coach. A recruiter may place in an inquiry based on footage he viewed while researching another player in the same game. The feedback regarding the inquiry typically carries significant weight and determines the next step. The coach will exercise caution during this process so that he does not jeopardize the integrity of his stature. If the coach for any reason determines that the player is a risk he may choose to torpedo the process as he will not want his name on the player. There are many players with the ability, size, speed to play at the next level that do not survive this process.

[HDBobcats9]

Guys, I think both of you are correct in the points your making. It reminds me of the old saying "you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink." A coach can have a major influcence on a student athlete's recruitment. He can make calls to college coaches, other high school coaches who may have players being recruited (so recruiters are in more contact with that school's coach), send out film, nominate him for awards and all-star teams, fully endorse or adamently disprove of the player when asked. All of these greatly affect a whether a kid plays at the next level or not. This is especially true with small school players or kids that don't put up huge numbers or play a skill position that media tends to cover. So yes, I do believe that coaches can make a huge impact on a kid playing college football or not.

 

On the flip-side though, I do agree with alot that HIGHpoint is making as well. A coach can do everything in his power to convince a college recruiter/coach that this kid can play at the next level, but if the recruiter just doesn't see it, it's probably not gonna happen. If you're a TE that's barely 6' tall.....not gonna cut it. If you're a running back that runs a 4.8 40....not gonna cut it. Now if they are just FOOTBALL players, then of course a recruiter will try to determine if he can be moved to another position to allow for contribution to his team. With that being said though, if you don't have film or proof of a kid playing that position, and playing it against decent competion, there's no way to truly evaluate that talent level. Most coaches (I like to think) are honest with their kids, and honest with recruiters. If they feel like he's comparable to a kid that he coached in the past that played college ball, then he'll endorse it and that means alot (especially a coach that's had tons of college players). A coach that's never put a kid to the next level will not sell much to a recruiter, but his endorsement and opinon will be noted.

 

So back to the old saying......

 

Horse = College Recruiter

Man leading him = High School Coach

Water = High school player

 

1. Most of the time horses will know about and find the best watering holes regardless of where it is. (Top Level High School Talent)

 

2. Sometimes it helps if someone leads that horse to a place to get a drink that he didn't know about (Under the radar talent, HS coach assisting in players recruitment)

 

3. Even then, that horse makes the final decision wheter he finds that water appealing and takes a drink (Recruiter ultimately decides whether to offer scholarship or not)

[HIGHpoint96]

Ok, you can talk about the process and say the steps and try to use textbook language to make your point sound correct, but you're missing the entirety of what i'm saying. No s*** the coach will talk to the recruiter and tell him who his best players are and give him film, but once again the coach doesn't get the kid recruited, the talent the kid has gets him recruited when the coach puts on the film and sees him in person. Coaches dont get kids recruited their ability, grades, and character(sometimes) get them recruited. Even if a coach tells the recruiter about a kid who isnt on the radar and the recruiter decides to offer him a scholarship, its not because the coach told him about the player its because the player has the talent necessary to get the offer. There isn't a single coach in the country that doesn't try to push his players unless the kid is a turd, but he can push all he wants because if the kid cant play the offer wont come. 

[HIGHpoint96]

Its common knowledge that the coach has contact with the recruiter and tells him about his best players who have a chance to play and shows them film, do you think you just told me something i dont already know? I'm not saying that the high school coach should just lock his door when college coaches come through and tell him good luck finding them on your own the film rooms that way. Every one on this website knows the coaches are in contact with each other, but alot of people on here think that when a kid doesnt get recruited its the coaches fault for not pushing him, or for not finding a school that will take him. The truth is if a kid doesnt get recruited its because the kid doesnt have the goods, no matter what the coach says or how many highlight films he shows. For instance, my dad told me once that a teacher sent him a detailed letter about why cant you find a scholarship for lil johnny when you found scholarships for other players on your team. This is the common misconception that drives me crazy. I'm not saying the high school coach has no role in the process, I'm saying he doesnt get kids recruited talent does. 

[Guest]

A coach can get any player "looked at". If the player has no ability it will not matter. If a player has ability and gets no look it will be due to the fact that the coach did not give the go ahead to the recruiter. There are MANY players with the ability to play in college that get no look because the recruiter did not see them and they will not see them if the coach does not get the recruiter to "look at" them. This is much more of a factor in 1A/2A. There is much more to the process than talent. There is an endless list of players with the talent/ability to play in college that fail to get recruited. There is an equal sized list of players who get recruited that lack the ability of many of who do not get recruited. I don't think anyone said that a coach will get a scholarship for a player that cant play. I do suspect that the lineman referenced in this discussion with the offer from Lamar is a direct result of the coach's attempt to get him recruited. Unless, Lamar regularly has scouts at Hardin games.   

[camsdad]

A coach can get any player "looked at". If the player has no ability it will not matter. If a player has ability and gets no look it will be due to the fact that the coach did not give the go ahead to the recruiter. There are MANY players with the ability to play in college that get no look because the recruiter did not see them and they will not see them if the coach does not get the recruiter to "look at" them. This is much more of a factor in 1A/2A. There is much more to the process than talent. There is an endless list of players with the talent/ability to play in college that fail to get recruited. There is an equal sized list of players who get recruited that lack the ability of many of who do not get recruited. I don't think anyone said that a coach will get a scholarship for a player that cant play. I do suspect that the lineman referenced in this discussion with the offer from Lamar is a direct result of the coach's attempt to get him recruited. Unless, Lamar regularly has scouts at Hardin games.

You are exactly right.