racism

[TxHoops]

To be sure, he has not demonstrated the ability to bring the parties together that Reagan and Clinton had. I had hopes when his administration started that he would. Instead, he has had a more divisive effect, much as his immediate predecessor had.

With President Obama, I believe he exhausted his political capital with the Health Care act. That will be his legacy. While I believed, and still believe, health care is in need of reform in this country, I was not especially pleased with the product congress came up with. As far as its lasting effect, it is too early to tell.

[TxHoops]

Back to the cost of imprisonment vs death penalty, My son is a Capt at the Stiles Unit and you just would'nt believe how many cases of Aids, Cancer, etc their are in the prisons, and their treatment is paid for by (TAX PAYERS) HOOPs you will have to show me some actual documentation showing it cost more to put someone down than to keep em locked up for 40 years. I personally think you had a BS moment on that one.

Google is your friend. In addition to the link I posted in this thread, there exists overwhelming data on the "costs" issue. My work was done under Professor Jordan Steiker at UT. If it was a BS moment, I wasted months of my life on research. Your son's employment at the Stiles Unit notwithstanding.

[TxHoops]

In the early to mid 90ks, the average cost of a death penalty case to the taxpayers was between $2M to $2.5M. The average cost to imprison someone in a maximum security, single cell was around $20k a year.

[TxHoops]

Lastly, what does this have anything to do with racism?

Well, to get back on point, did you know a black person who murders a white person in this state is 7 times more likely to receive the death penalty than a white person who murders a black person (and almost 3 times more likely than a white person murdering a white person)? In addition, while nationally African Americans make up 42 percent of the death row inmates, in our state, 70% of death row inmates are black. I'm sure those statistics have NOTHING to do with race though.

[TROJANSWIN]

I'll bite. Ironically, in my lifetime, the President who was the most sound fiscally was a Democrat - Bill Clinton. Don't believe me? Ask Reagan appointee Alan Greenspan. He's probably a little more astute in economics than anyone posting on this board.

Since Clinton, the biggest tax sucker we have had BY FAR is the war(s) in the Middle East. Who got us into that mess?

Clinton is actually just as responsible for Afghanistan as G.W. Bush. He was launching Tomahawk missiles at Afghanistan years before Bush was elected. He also had several chances to take custody of Bin Laden and didn't. Even though our intelligence operatives were all for it. Bush just happened to be president after 9/11 when congress, both dem and repub overwhelmingly voted to go after Bin Laden. Iraq is a different story, Bush is responsible for that. If anyone other than W. is to blame, it would have to be his father for not finishing the job the first time.

[stevenash]

I understand that you are suggesting racism with your numbers.  If the state of Texas has 70% of its death row inmates as black and the national average is 42%, I interpret that as meaning there are some other states with something less than the 42% national average.  Does that mean Texas is a racist state and those with the lower numbers are not?

[stevenash]

According to the Washington- based Death Penalty Information Center ( DPIC) 56% of death row inmates are black or Hispanic. 

 

Of the 139 capital convicts found innocent sine 1973, 61% have been of color.

[Chester86]

Well, to get back on point, did you know a black person who murders a white person in this state is 7 times more likely to receive the death penalty than a white person who murders a black person (and almost 3 times more likely than a white person murdering a white person)? In addition, while nationally African Americans make up 42 percent of the death row inmates, in our state, 70% of death row inmates are black. I'm sure those statistics have NOTHING to do with race though.

Something tells me that no matter what points are made, no matter how much progress is made - you will always find something to victimize about.

[TxHoops]

I understand that you are suggesting racism with your numbers. If the state of Texas has 70% of its death row inmates as black and the national average is 42%, I interpret that as meaning there are some other states with something less than the 42% national average. Does that mean Texas is a racist state and those with the lower numbers are not?

I would interpret the numbers to mean that those Texas juries use skin color (consciously or not) when deciding whether a person dies more often than the second state's juries.

[TxHoops]

According to the Washington- based Death Penalty Information Center ( DPIC) 56% of death row inmates are black or Hispanic.

Of the 139 capital convicts found innocent sine 1973, 61% have been of color.

First fact - so roughly 14 percent are Hispanic?

Second fact - makes perfect sense and I would expect that number to be accurate.

[TxHoops]

Something tells me that no matter what points are made, no matter how much progress is made - you will always find something to victimize about.

Something tells me no matter what you read, you will be more offended by welfare recipients than innocent people being put to death in the name of justice. We all have different priorities and value systems.

[stevenash]

Yes, we all have different value systems, but promoting the idea that America is evil and does very little right is the wrong way to go.  People from all over the world aren't clamoring to get in here because it is so bad.

[TxHoops]

Yes, we all have different value systems, but promoting the idea that America is evil and does very little right is the wrong way to go. People from all over the world aren't clamoring to get in here because it is so bad.

Promoting the idea that America is evil and does very little right seems to be the subject of 90 percent of the threads on this board. I would agree with you that's the wrong way to go.

[stevenash]

Permit me to add that vilifying those who have accomplished something in this country because they have done something wrong to those who haven't accomplished anything is an improper premise.  But we seem to continually promote this theory and teach the unaccomplished that it is not their fault and this happened only because they are victims of an unfair system.  You have a far better chance of succeeding here as compared to anywhere else in the world and there aren't many places that will sustain you while you try or continue to sustain you when you don't try.

[TxHoops]

Permit me to add that vilifying those who have accomplished something in this country because they have done something wrong to those who haven't accomplished anything is an improper premise. But we seem to continually promote this theory and teach the unaccomplished that it is not their fault and this happened only because they are victims of an unfair system. You have a far better chance of succeeding here as compared to anywhere else in the world and there aren't many places that will sustain you while you try or continue to sustain you when you don't try.

Maybe that's why people are "clamoring to get in here?" ;)

[Chester86]

Something tells me no matter what you read, you will be more offended by welfare recipients than innocent people being put to death in the name of justice. We all have different priorities and value systems.

What I do everyone tells me they're innocent.

[stevenash]

Would you agree that we need fewer clamoring and increased internal productivity and decreased internal welfare?  If so, can you honestly tell me that our President is not promoting precisely the opposite?