EnlightenedChosenOne Posted July 21, 2014 Report Posted July 21, 2014 I'm really interested to know what the guys who preach small government think about this topic. Quote
EnlightenedChosenOne Posted July 21, 2014 Author Report Posted July 21, 2014 Guess all you old geezers are sleeping already Quote
stevenash Posted July 21, 2014 Report Posted July 21, 2014 If you want immediate answers, perhaps you post them at an earlier hour. I preach small government.( small being a relative term) What do you want to know? Quote
EnlightenedChosenOne Posted July 21, 2014 Author Report Posted July 21, 2014 See - topic title If you want immediate answers, perhaps you post them at an earlier hour. I preach small government.( small being a relative term) What do you want to know? Quote
stevenash Posted July 21, 2014 Report Posted July 21, 2014 While I believe there is a certain amount of "spying" that needs to take place, I have little faith in the integrity of the current administration and have been conditioned, by prior events, to be suspicious of most anything they do. Is that what you wanted to hear? Quote
SKINS Posted July 21, 2014 Report Posted July 21, 2014 NSA does not spy on american citizens. It doesn't target american persons without a warrant. That is includes citizens here or abroad anybody in an american state or territory, Corperations that are majority american, american registered ships or aircraft, and anyone that it cannot prove is foreign. Quote
LumRaiderFan Posted July 21, 2014 Report Posted July 21, 2014 http://www.huffingtonpost.com/marjorie-cohn/nsa-metadata-collection-f_b_4611211.html Quote
smitty Posted July 21, 2014 Report Posted July 21, 2014 I'm really interested to know what the guys who preach small government think about this topic. What do you think? Quote
EnlightenedChosenOne Posted July 21, 2014 Author Report Posted July 21, 2014 I think you'll take the opposite position of me no matter what I choose, which is why I wanted to hear your opinion first. What do you think? Quote
smitty Posted July 21, 2014 Report Posted July 21, 2014 I think you'll take the opposite position of me no matter what I choose, which is why I wanted to hear your opinion first. Well, not necessarily. My thought is that anything that violates the 4th Amendment is wrong. Quote
EnlightenedChosenOne Posted July 21, 2014 Author Report Posted July 21, 2014 So you are not a supporter of the NSA reportedly spying on Americans? Just want to confirmWell, not necessarily. My thought is that anything that violates the 4th Amendment is wrong. Quote
NorthoftheBorder Posted July 21, 2014 Report Posted July 21, 2014 Governments have been spying since the creation of governments. The issue we have in the present digital and technological age is: what will the government do with all the data it is collecting on its citizens. There is no doubt that the current Administration has shown a predisposition to try and use government agencies to harrass and punish its opponents!! That is the problem, not the spying. If we could trust our own government, then almost no one would oppose the collection of data. Of course, you will deny/turn a blind eye to the fact that their is a great chance that this data will be misused to persecute and punish those that oppose the current regime!! 77 1 Quote
stevenash Posted July 21, 2014 Report Posted July 21, 2014 And you can bet your last dollar that none of this information will be lost AKA Lois Lerner hard drive. Quote
NorthoftheBorder Posted July 21, 2014 Report Posted July 21, 2014 Governments have been spying since the creation of governments. The issue we have in the present digital and technological age is: what will the government do with all the data it is collecting on its citizens. There is no doubt that the current Administration has shown a predisposition to try and use government agencies to harrass and punish its opponents!! That is the problem, not the spying. If we could trust our own government, then almost no one would oppose the collection of data. Of course, you will deny/turn a blind eye to the fact that their is a great chance that this data will be misused to persecute and punish those that oppose the current regime!! EDIT: The Obama Admin did not invent the "punish your enemies" philosophy, I am sure it has been around for a very long time and used by both Republican and Democratic Admins. It has just been pushed to a whole new level by this group. This is dangerous no matter which party occupies the White House!! Quote
77 Posted July 21, 2014 Report Posted July 21, 2014 I think the last one that got caught using the IRS for their benefit was Nixon and he was impeached! Quote
TROJANSWIN Posted July 21, 2014 Report Posted July 21, 2014 Spying on Americans by our government without proper warrants is always bad. Using the guise of it being for security is no excuse. Bad people will do bad things. We will never be able to completely eliminate this problem. Justice for such an act should be swift and complete. If it is state sponsored or allowed to happen because a country allows terrorists to train and prosper in their country, when those terrorists hurt Americans, we should wipe out the leaders of that country along with the terrorists. Make the country responsible for what happens in their territory. If the terrorists are Americans, then they should be taken to the courthouse square and hung upon capture. baddog and 77 2 Quote
SKINS Posted July 22, 2014 Report Posted July 22, 2014 Spying on Americans by our government without proper warrants is always bad. Using the guise of it being for security is no excuse. Bad people will do bad things. We will never be able to completely eliminate this problem. Justice for such an act should be swift and complete. If it is state sponsored or allowed to happen because a country allows terrorists to train and prosper in their country, when those terrorists hurt Americans, we should wipe out the leaders of that country along with the terrorists. Make the country responsible for what happens in their territory. If the terrorists are Americans, then they should be taken to the courthouse square and hung upon capture. What happens when these terrorists piggyback and use your or other innocent americans computers for their cyber campaigns? This is our issue, and its why so much american metadata is collected, our enemies use our laws against as as human cyber shields. Quote
jv_coach Posted July 22, 2014 Report Posted July 22, 2014 I am not for it. Now if you believe that America is Satan and Sharia law is a good thing then don't cry about your rights being infringed for you gave those up through treason. Quote
smitty Posted July 22, 2014 Report Posted July 22, 2014 So you are not a supporter of the NSA reportedly spying on Americans? Just want to confirm I answered. What is your answer? Quote
tvc184 Posted July 23, 2014 Report Posted July 23, 2014 I'm really interested to know what the guys who preach small government think about this topic. You are trying to make a straw man argument by comparing small government to a possible Fourth Amendment violation. What does one have to do with the other? If the NSA metadata collecting is legal and can keep us safe, what does small or large government have to do with it? That is like saying we should get rid of our nuclear deterrent or our super carriers because they are expensive or it constitutes big government. On the other hand if metadata collection is illegal, what if its cost was minuscule? Would it be okay to violate our rights because it is really small government? I see the big/small government argument as a non-issue on whether we should spy to protect the country whether any collecting data in the USA is illegal or not. Most people consider big government the myriad of agencies that have too much control over our lives in both prohibitions and giveaways, not the cost or size of protection. Quote
stevenash Posted July 23, 2014 Report Posted July 23, 2014 TVC- Your last sentence was PRECISELY what our consider big government Quote
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