Is Anyone Else Concerned About How Militarized The Police Are Today?

[EnlightenedChosenOne]

I don't believe it's in the best interests of citizens if the police have all the latest and greatest toys.

Sure, it's warranted now because of the reason for the riots. But what happens in year 2045 and the citizens want to overthrow a corrupt government?

Do you trust the government to not open fire on citizens when that day comes?

[shovel]

Jefferson County Texas has all the lastest and greatest toys. Boats, helicopters, armored vehicles, etc; yet only have 4 deputys on patrol at night. While I feel our policemen need to have the equipment they need. I think things have turned a little upside down right now. I would be interested in tvc's point of view on this topic...

[Bigdog]

You need to look at what the criminals are carrying.  

[Big girl]

I am, because of somethings that have recently happened

[EnlightenedChosenOne]

In afraid were headed down a dangerous path under the guise of combating the "bad guys".

You need to look at what the criminals are carrying.

[thetragichippy]

You need to look at what the criminals are carrying.  

 

 

Good point.....

 

I can only imagine now with new technology, but remember years ago when the bank robbers came out all armored up? If they would have planned better and been a little smarter, they could of taken a bunch of cops with them.

 

I not saying don't be prepared, but "that day" is not close to being near. Those police officers have families and are normal people. They are not like what some would want you to believe.

[thetragichippy]

In afraid were headed down a dangerous path under the guise of combating the "bad guys".
 

 

Can you give me one example of anything recently uncovered that would support your comment?

 

I need groups of people, not one off crazies.....

[EnlightenedChosenOne]

Not so much in America, yet, but overseas there seems to always be some foreign country killing its own citizens.

Middle East uprisings, Ukraine , etc.

Can you give me one example of anything recently uncovered that would support your comment?
 
I need groups of people, not one off crazies.....

[Bigdog]

Good point.....

 

I can only imagine now with new technology, but remember years ago when the bank robbers came out all armored up? If they would have planned better and been a little smarter, they could of taken a bunch of cops with them.

 

I not saying don't be prepared, but "that day" is not close to being near. Those police officers have families and are normal people. They are not like what some would want you to believe.

 

The Northridge , CA bank robbery.  Yeah, the cops were outgunned and had to break into a gun shop to get heavy enough rifles to stop the robbers.  The bad guys had full body armor and AK-47s.

[thetragichippy]

Not so much in America, yet, but overseas there seems to always be some foreign country killing its own citizens.

Middle East uprisings, Ukraine , etc.
 

true

[AggiesAreWe]

The Northridge , CA bank robbery.  Yeah, the cops were outgunned and had to break into a gun shop to get heavy enough rifles to stop the robbers.  The bad guys had full body armor and AK-47s.

 

True. But once SWAT was able to get their snipers in place, those guys were taken out by head shots where armor wasn't there.

[thetragichippy]

True. But once SWAT was able to get their snipers in place, those guys were taken out by head shots where armor wasn't there.

 

But better planning and A LOT of cops would have been killed......

[bullets13]

I honestly believe that if citizens ever have to take up arms and overthrow the government, most police officers will be with them, not against them, and likely using the "toys" that some are concerned about them having.

[EnlightenedChosenOne]

I believe otherwise. Those police officers will follow their orders just like the nazis did, until the tide is at a clear turning point.

The threat of being tried for treason will be enough to deter them from deserting.

I honestly believe that if citizens ever have to take up arms and overthrow the government, most police officers will be with them, not against them, and likely using the "toys" that some are concerned about them having.

[tvc184]

In afraid were headed down a dangerous path under the guise of combating the "bad guys".
 

 

And what is that dangerous path? 

 

I see so much about "where we are headed" in many forums and we are "continually losing our rights". Like many topics, many (or most) of the comments are out of ignorance. 

 

Examples are like a SCOTUS ruling giving some restrictions on police searches of vehicles and we are "losing our rights". I take "losing" as a present day situation and not something that happened generations ago. Yet when we take a look at it, is it true? 

 

I was reading another sports forum (hunting) about a SCOTUS ruling (Gant 2009) and the standard complaints came out. What they don't know if that the police have had almost unrestricted searches of vehicles under exigency that goes back to 1925 in Carroll v. US not long after cars first hit the streets. Move on to Belton v. NY in 1981 that gave officers unlimited wingspan searches of vehicles where the driver was arrested and the vehicle impounded. Almost two generations ago that case said that police could arrest you for not using your turn signal and could search your car. In Gant the SCOTUS stopped that practice and said that the police can only search if there is a reasonable belief that there is evidence in the crime committed so unless the cops can find evidence of not using your blinker under the seat or in the glove box, they cannot search. To make it brief, Gant in 2009 took away police authority that was previously allowed and yet people say that we are "losing our rights". It looks to me like many times the people are having their right reaffirmed, not taken away yet it is easy to say, "we are losing our rights" when the person saying it has no knowledge at all of what is being claimed.

 

That is but a single example but I can name more but that would be for a different thread.

 

So exactly what is this dangerous path? 

[tvc184]

I believe otherwise. Those police officers will follow their orders just like the nazis did, until the tide is at a clear turning point.

The threat of being tried for treason will be enough to deter them from deserting.
 

 

There is no such thing as treason or desertion for police officers. They are not the military and have no sworn duty to serve for a specified term like the military. A cop can legally walk away while in the middle of a call. If I am working a traffic accident or a family disturbance and half way through I say, "I have had enough of this nonsense, I quit", there is nothing that can be done to me criminally. I can and will be fired like any other employee that walks off the job but there is no charge of treason, being AWOL, etc. 

 

Just like my previous post, do people really know what they are talking about? 

[EnlightenedChosenOne]

I don't want to get into too much detail on this topic, NSA is watching

[TROJANSWIN]

I don't have any reservations about the equipment that law enforcement officers have other than if we are wasting money on something extremely ridiculous. If it has a legitimate use, then I hope when the need arises, the police have it handy and it serves it's purpose.
I have a bigger problem with no-knock warrants and swat teams being used for situations where a phone call or two officers visiting a residence could have taken care of the problem. If someone is holding a group of people hostage, or has barricaded themself in with an arsenal of weapons and is wanted for murder, then sneaking in an catching them off guard will probably save lives. But, to bust down the door, shoot the pet dog, and hold an entire family at gun point over the teenage kid selling drugs out the house is trying to prove something other than enforcing the law.

[TROJANSWIN]

Another thing that completely drives me insane are the patrol cars with the translucent lettering identifying the vehicle. If it is used for undercover purposes, it is justifiable. Using an unmarked, or barely marked vehicle as a traffic enforcement vehicle is ridiculous. I do not want my wife or children being pulled over out here in the national forest by a vehicle that is not clearly marked. There are just enough creeps and sickos out there to make this into a safety issue. The only possible reason to use these vehicles for traffic enforcement is to write more tickets. A ticket is supposed to work as a deterrent and promote safety, not as a fundraiser. Hiding the identity of these officers does not promote safety, it decreases it.

[SKINS]

I don't want to get into too much detail on this topic, NSA is watching

Unless your some sort of terrorist or cyber criminal you don't have much to worry about

[jv_coach]

In afraid were headed down a dangerous path under the guise of combating the "bad guys".
 

Agreed

Side thought:  when crimes are not punished quickly and harshly it helps to promote the police having more stuff for a couple of reasons. 
They have a naturally dangerous profession and want to go home to eat cornbread and beans when their shift ends.
Not punishing criminals quickly and harshly allows bad guys to network and become more embolden which i turns entices the younger generation to follow in their footsteps. 
 

[tvc184]

True. But once SWAT was able to get their snipers in place, those guys were taken out by head shots where armor wasn't there.

 

Not exactly. 

 

SWAT took a long time to get there. Once they arrived, they have a close in shootout between vehicles and one of them and the other was shot by an officer but also shot himself in the head, committing suicide when he saw he had no way out. 

 

In any case, it took SWAT to be there and the 100 or so patrol officers that responded had no answer for two guys that shot several people including officers. That is the same SWAT that saved the day that people are now saying is too much policing. 

 

A lot of people don't want the cops to have big guns or armored vehicles unless they are being held hostage, then they want the cops to have every tool available. 

 

I spent 10 years on SWAT and they are no more military like today than they were 30 years ago. What we have today is 24 hour news and social media. 

[PN-G bamatex]

I don't have a problem with the police having the best equipment available at all, just as long as I have access to it as well.

[mat]

911 changed a lot of mentality. If things go bad I don't want to be dependent on our military for local protection.

[tvc184]

In about 1985-86 our entire department was trained in riot tactics after a lot of union unrest in the area back then. We carried the same equipment back then (riot batons, shields, helmets, rubber bullets, wooden rounds/knee knockers, tear gas, etc.). The difference between then and now is the uniforms. 

 

We used to wear our regular duty gear is that it all we had. We had to wear the $35 dress shirts with the creases sewn in made for all the jewelry we hang on them and dress uniform pants. Today they wear over-the-counter BDU style uniforms. That is the difference, the cop wear utility gear instead of dress uniforms to riots. That for some reason offends the public and makes the same police officers now "militarized" because they took off their dress blues for riots. I am assuming that if they wore the blues again like in the 1968 Chicago riots, it would be okay. Even many of the helmets were blue. 

 

Google 1968 Chicago Riots and click on images and see what the officers in a riot looked like back then. Almost nothing has changed except the training the officers receive and the uniforms.