annexation

[5GallonBucket]

Africa awaits you

[Big girl]

Are we hypocrites? What is good for the goose is not good for the gander?

[Big girl]

I dont hate America, but I am not disillusioned enough to think we are a perfect nation.

[tvc184]

I dont hate America, but I am not disillusioned enough to think we are a perfect nation.

 

In my entire like I have heard not a single person say that we were a perfect nation or even close to it.

 

What are you talking about or is this another straw man argument? 

[mustang]

I'm sorry but she really is delusional.  In the history of this board she may have the most lame posts ever.   She is a great cut and paster though! 

[thetragichippy]

In my entire like I have heard not a single person say that we were a perfect nation or even close to it.

 

What are you talking about or is this another straw man argument? 

 

She does this on purpose.....She will ask a question, get a Bandkid or TVC 3000 word essay, then re-ask the question a little different.  

[tvc184]

I just can't figure the point of the thread.

 

The USA is not perfect, never has been perfect, was never claimed to be perfect nor will it ever be. 

 

It is not okay for Russia to invade Ukraine and killed hundreds or thousands people because the USA orchestrated a bloodless coup in Hawaii in the late 1800's (later becoming a state by a more than 90% vote of the people). 

 

It is not hypocritical to say that the Russian invasion is wrong because of what happened more than a 100 years ago. That would be like me saying that murder is wrong and a person pointing out that one of my ancestors committed murder 100 years ago so I am a hypocrite for saying that it is wrong......... "You can't criticize murder, your great great uncle killed someone 120 years ago". 

 

Is there a point to the USA asking the queen of Hawaii to step down (and she complied) many generations ago and the Russian invasion of Ukraine? 

[thetragichippy]

^^THAT^^

[PN-G bamatex]

I just can't figure the point of the thread.

 

The USA is not perfect, never has been perfect, was never claimed to be perfect nor will it ever be. 

 

It is not okay for Russia to invade Ukraine and killed hundreds or thousands people because the USA orchestrated a bloodless coup in Hawaii in the late 1800's (later becoming a state by a more than 90% vote of the people). 

 

It is not hypocritical to say that the Russian invasion is wrong because of what happened more than a 100 years ago. That would be like me saying that murder is wrong and a person pointing out that one of my ancestors committed murder 100 years ago so I am a hypocrite for saying that it is wrong......... "You can't criticize murder, your great great uncle killed someone 120 years ago". 

 

Is there a point to the USA asking the queen of Hawaii to step down (and she complied) many generations ago and the Russian invasion of Ukraine? 

 

Posts like this are why this site shouldn't have a limit on how many likes you can give in a single day.

[PN-G bamatex]

we didnt give them a choice according to what I read. I don't care if your patience is running thin, am I supposed to be afraid?

 

As I said, you didn't take the course I thought you were going to. Although this one is arguably equally as asinine.

 

It's hard to argue we didn't give them a choice when we initially refused to annex Hawaii because the queen had been overthrown. I'm no expert in Hawaiian history, but it seems pretty clear after glancing through the Wikipedia page that much of what happened in Hawaii was an internal struggle over the country's monarchy and constitution that America spent about a decade trying to stay out of.

 

It takes an awful lot of spinning to try and liken that to the situation in Ukraine.

[77]

Kinda like being blamed for slavery ! Wasn't right then not right now but its not my fault!  ( by me I just mean Whitey in general)

[mustang]

And all races have engaged in that practice. 

[new tobie]

Africa awaits you

And Vidor awaits you

[thetragichippy]

And Vidor awaits you

 

He may live in Vidor....you never know.....

 

But I have never heard of 5gallonbucket posting how terrible America is, and trying to compare two completely different situations to make our country look bad or evil.....

 

So, maybe Africa was not the best place to suggest she go.....I would recommend Iraq, Libya or Afghanistan....you know, one of the peaceful democratic countries.........and I hear Libya is going to get a Starbucks, so that's a plus :wacko:   

[Big girl]

As I said, you didn't take the course I thought you were going to. Although this one is arguably equally as asinine.

It's hard to argue we didn't give them a choice when we initially refused to annex Hawaii because the queen had been overthrown. I'm no expert in Hawaiian history, but it seems pretty clear after glancing through the Wikipedia page that much of what happened in Hawaii was an internal struggle over the country's monarchy and constitution that America spent about a decade trying to stay out of.

It takes an awful lot of spinning to try and liken that to the situation in Ukraine.

you are lying or you didnt read anything pertaining to the matter. Try reading it again. It did not happen the way you described it.

[Big girl]

Dont glance, read this time.

[PN-G bamatex]

you are lying or you didnt read anything pertaining to the matter. Try reading it again. It did not happen the way you described it.

 

Did you actually just accuse me of lying?

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawaii#Overthrow_of_1893.E2.80.94the_Republic_of_Hawaii_.281894.E2.80.931898.29

 

 

Overthrow of 1893—the Republic of Hawaii (1894–1898)

 

In January 1893, Queen Liliʻuokalani was overthrown and replaced by a Provisional Government composed of members of the Committee of Safety. American lawyer Sanford B. Dole became President of the Republic in 1894. Controversy filled the following years as the queen tried to regain her throne. The administration of President Grover Cleveland commissioned the Blount Report, which concluded that the removal of Liliʻuokalani was illegal. The U.S. government first demanded that Queen Liliʻuokalani be reinstated, but the Provisional Government refused. Congress followed with another investigation, and submitted the Morgan Report on February 26, 1894, which found all parties (including Minister Stevens) with the exception of the queen "not guilty" from any responsibility for the overthrow. The accuracy and impartiality of both the Blount and Morgan reports has been questioned by partisans on both sides of the debate over the events of 1893.

 

 

Further reading will reveal to you that it was not until the following presidential administration that Hawaii's annexation became a serious possibility, and that President Cleveland, who was a friend of the Hawaiian queen's, wanted nothing to do with it. The first democratic, pro-American reform in Hawaii took place in 1887, a full decade before territorial annexation would be granted.

 

Most importantly, however, is that US military forces never invaded Hawaii prior to their democratic revolution, unlike in the Ukraine, where Putin's forces had invaded Crimea before the election took place.

[BearBryant]

Why do y'all even respond to her? 

[Big girl]

Did you actually just accuse me of lying?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawaii#Overthrow_of_1893.E2.80.94the_Republic_of_Hawaii_.281894.E2.80.931898.29




Further reading will reveal to you that it was not until the following presidential administration that Hawaii's annexation became a serious possibility, and that President Cleveland, who was a friend of the Hawaiian queen's, wanted nothing to do with it. The first democratic, pro-American reform in Hawaii took place in 1887, a full decade before territorial annexation would be granted.

Most importantly, however, is that US military forces never invaded Hawaii prior to their democratic revolution, unlike in the Ukraine, where Putin's forces had invaded Crimea before the election took place.

he didnt, that is the only reason we didnt take over at that time. The coup d"eat happened before his presidency. People wanted to. Mckinnley wasted no time.What was his reason? Yes, I did call you a liar. What are you going to do about it?

[PN-G bamatex]

he didnt, that is the only reason we didnt take over at that time. The coup d"eat happened before his presidency. People wanted to. Mckinnley wasted no time.What was his reason? Yes, I did call you a liar. What are you going to do about it?

 

Call you an idiot that's now officially beneath contempt. That's what.

 

Your comparison of Hawaii and Ukraine is bogus. End of conversation.

[thetragichippy]

Call you an idiot that's now officially beneath contempt. That's what.

Your comparison of Hawaii and Ukraine is bogus. End of conversation.

Dude, you got sucked in..... You're way better than that!

[BearBryant]

Don't let her suck you in.  SHe has absolutely no idea what she is talking about anyways so what does it matter?  Everyone knows that she can't hold her own in here.  Thinking or putting together a coherent argument is not her forte. 

[NorthoftheBorder]

Dude, you got sucked in..... You're way better than that!

Yep, you keep thinking that facts and logic will actually make a difference in your dialogue with her, but you are assuming more than is capable!!

[thetragichippy]

Don't let her suck you in.  SHe has absolutely no idea what she is talking about anyways so what does it matter?  Everyone knows that she can't hold her own in here.  Thinking or putting together a coherent argument is not her forte. 

 

Glad to see you back Bear!

[EnlightenedChosenOne]

Bama kid now understands how I feel trying to discuss politics and economics with more of the "birther" types around here :p

Dude, you got sucked in..... You're way better than that!