AggiesAreWe Posted September 16, 2014 Report Posted September 16, 2014 In addition, let's make a comparison. UL-L is the closest geographics to LU. Lafayette is the main town with lots of surrounding communities. Yet, There isn't a campus in Carencro, Youngsville, Scott, Rayne...etc UL-L is THE campus, it is EVERYTHING in that community. NOT SO at LU. To much divided interest from surrounding cities. Not to mention people LIVE and WANT to live in Lafayette, Lake Charles, Nacogdoches, Huntsville, etc...the locals don't have to drive from outskirt communities to get to the games...just some of my thoughts on why LU will never be successful. 2013 home attendance numbers for SHSU and LU: SAM LU Houston Baptist 9246 Oklahoma Panhandle St. 8433 Texas Southern 6403 Bacone College 8056 Incarnate Word 5789 *Central Arkansas 10,738 Eastern Washington 8621 *Nichols St 7738 *Lamar 9156 *SFA 7681 *Northwestern St. 5527 *McNeese St. 7627 *Nichols St. 7507 Southern Utah (playoff) 4069 total 56,318 50,273 average 7040 8378 2014 Alabama St. 7595 Grambling St. 9520 Colorado St.-Pueblo 9678 Texas College 7226 total 17,273 16,746 average 8636.5 8373 looks as though Lamar is keeping up with the SAM's of the SLC. ;) Quote
Pirate88 Posted September 16, 2014 Author Report Posted September 16, 2014 2013 home attendance numbers for SHSU and LU: SAM LU Houston Baptist 9246 Oklahoma Panhandle St. 8433 Texas Southern 6403 Bacone College 8056 Incarnate Word 5789 *Central Arkansas 10,738 Eastern Washington 8621 *Nichols St 7738 *Lamar 9156 *SFA 7681 *Northwestern St. 5527 *McNeese St. 7627 *Nichols St. 7507 Southern Utah (playoff) 4069 total 56,318 50,273 average 7040 8378 2014 Alabama St. 7595 Grambling St. 9520 Colorado St.-Pueblo 9678 Texas College 7226 total 17,273 16,746 average 8636.5 8373 looks as though Lamar is keeping up with the SAM's of the SLC. ;) I would not call a half filled on average Provost stadium anything positive. Are we happy with just keeping up with SH on attendence? How about conference wins or trips to playoffs? That's something to build on. Quote
AggiesAreWe Posted September 16, 2014 Report Posted September 16, 2014 I would not call a half filled on average Provost stadium anything positive. Are we happy with just keeping up with SH on attendence? How about conference wins or trips to playoffs? That's something to build on. I agree. I only showed the attendance numbers for SHSU because it was brought up in comparison. SHSU team is way ahead of Lamar but as far as support (attendance, facilities, money, etc.) Lamar is on par or exceeds the Bobcats. It was said that if Lamar would start getting significant wins like Sam, then they would enjoy the fruits of labor like the Bobcats. But by those attendance numbers, it seems winning significantly at Sam Houston State has not helped in regards to attendance in comparison to Lamar. Quote
CraigS Posted September 16, 2014 Report Posted September 16, 2014 2013 home attendance numbers for SHSU and LU: SAM LU Houston Baptist 9246 Oklahoma Panhandle St. 8433 Texas Southern 6403 Bacone College 8056 Incarnate Word 5789 *Central Arkansas 10,738 Eastern Washington 8621 *Nichols St 7738 *Lamar 9156 *SFA 7681 *Northwestern St. 5527 *McNeese St. 7627 *Nichols St. 7507 Southern Utah (playoff) 4069 total 56,318 50,273 average 7040 8378 2014 Alabama St. 7595 Grambling St. 9520 Colorado St.-Pueblo 9678 Texas College 7226 total 17,273 16,746 average 8636.5 8373 looks as though Lamar is keeping up with the SAM's of the SLC. ;) Sam Houston State 2011 - 14-1 / 7-0 (NC game) - including 5 ranked teams and UTSA & New Mexico St (FBS Teams) 2012 - 11-4 / 6-1 (NC game) - including 6 ranked teams and Baylor & Texas A&M (FBS Teams) 2013- 9-5 / 4-3 (Playoffs) including 6 ranked teams and Texas A&M 2014 - 1-3 / 0-0 (????) including so far 3 ranked teams - including LSU Nah - doesn't seem that way at all where it matters....besides the original post said "losing interest" fan base / tail gaters, etc....and by your own numbers, that is exactly what's happening, and the numbers above is why Sam will stay consistent....and LU will NOT. Note: the attendance was high for the Grambling game because people thought the band would be there........NOT to watch LU and Grambling play football... Quote
CraigS Posted September 16, 2014 Report Posted September 16, 2014 I agree. I only showed the attendance numbers for SHSU because it was brought up in comparison. SHSU team is way ahead of Lamar but as far as support (attendance, facilities, money, etc.) Lamar is on par or exceeds the Bobcats. It was said that if Lamar would start getting significant wins like Sam, then they would enjoy the fruits of labor like the Bobcats. But by those attendance numbers, it seems winning significantly at Sam Houston State has not helped in regards to attendance in comparison to Lamar. Ill be at the BEARKAT -v- bluejay game next week sitting with the Silsbee LU player parents in my Blue and Orange...help out the attendance some. Quote
CraigS Posted September 16, 2014 Report Posted September 16, 2014 I agree. I only showed the attendance numbers for SHSU because it was brought up in comparison. SHSU team is way ahead of Lamar but as far as support (attendance, facilities, money, etc.) Lamar is on par or exceeds the Bobcats. It was said that if Lamar would start getting significant wins like Sam, then they would enjoy the fruits of labor like the Bobcats. But by those attendance numbers, it seems winning significantly at Sam Houston State has not helped in regards to attendance in comparison to Lamar. Sure it does. The attendance IS higher at Sam (however small it is) whereas Sam's stadium is 4K seats smaller. So from a "packed house" stand point Sam at least seems fuller than LU...from a player stand point or just looking around inside the stadium, I'd say a 75% capacity is better than a 50% capacity...I don't think it really matters that one can say...but our stadium is bigger....perspective is reality! Quote
AggiesAreWe Posted September 16, 2014 Report Posted September 16, 2014 My bad, Bearcats. 8378>7040 Quote
CraigS Posted September 16, 2014 Report Posted September 16, 2014 My bad, Bearcats. BearKats 8378>7040 Quote
CraigS Posted September 16, 2014 Report Posted September 16, 2014 My bad, Bearcats. 8378>7040 not sure what that means, if it's capacity LU shows (wikipedia) 16,000 as of 2010 and SHSU shows (wikioedia) 12,500 as of 2010. 16,000 > 12,500 8636 (avg attend) / 12,500 = 69% (my bad I used 75% guessing) 8373 (avg attend) / 16,000 = 52% (my bad I used 50% guessing) Quote
AggiesAreWe Posted September 16, 2014 Report Posted September 16, 2014 It means that LU averaged more in attendance last year than what SHSU did. Pretty simple. Lamar went 5-7 last year while SHSU went 9-5, 2 rounds in playoffs.(that coming off three very successful years that should have that little stadium packed every home game) Yet Lamar still averaged more in attendance than SHSU. No matter how big the stadiums. Fact is, on average more folks attended LU home games than SHSU home games. Also, Lamar was SHSU's 2nd largest home attendance. I am pretty certain that if Lamar had three consecutive seasons like SHSU had from 2011-13, they would average more than 7040 in home games, regardless of opponent or size of stadium. I could understand your logic on the percentage thing if SHSU attendance was over flowing the stadium capacity thus hindering their amount compared to a school who has a bigger stadium. But that is not the case. Any way you spin it, 8378>7040. Yes, thru two home games this season, that very successful on the field team in the BearKats are averaging 263 more fans a game than what the so-so Cardinal team is averaging. But let's see where the numbers are after a complete season. For this season, sample size is just too small. Quote
CraigS Posted September 16, 2014 Report Posted September 16, 2014 It means that LU averaged more in attendance last year than what SHSU did. Pretty simple. Lamar went 5-7 last year while SHSU went 9-5, 2 rounds in playoffs.(that coming off three very successful years that should have that little stadium packed every home game) Yet Lamar still averaged more in attendance than SHSU. No matter how big the stadiums. Fact is, on average more folks attended LU home games than SHSU home games. Also, Lamar was SHSU's 2nd largest home attendance. I am pretty certain that if Lamar had three consecutive seasons like SHSU had from 2011-13, they would average more than 7040 in home games, regardless of opponent or size of stadium. I could understand your logic on the percentage thing if SHSU attendance was over flowing the stadium capacity thus hindering their amount compared to a school who has a bigger stadium. But that is not the case. Any way you spin it, 8378>7040. Yes, thru two home games this season, that very successful on the field team in the BearKats are averaging 263 more fans a game than what the so-so Cardinal team is averaging. But let's see where the numbers are after a complete season. For this season, sample size is just too small. Fair enough. But consider this. Whereas the BearKats haven't always been good, and they have fallen somewhat in the last year (this year is yet to be seen with new coach) there are a few other things to be considered. 1 - Opponent - with SH you can tell alot by attendance numbers based on quality of team they are playing which is what several have stated as a problem for LU...since their numbers "aren't so bad" compared to SHSU, just think how good they "could" be, if they'd play "somebody" at home. 2. "New Program" - Whereas all SLC teams are "ahead" of LU as far a s being established, true, but LU is enjoying the "hype" of having football back in town....that is fading. 3. Success - with it puts butts in seats - without it attendance will be dismal. A wrap - So from what started this thread lets look at LU's failures - The new is wearing off, they don't play anybody in non-conference, and they are losing....which equals attendance and participation in tailgating is dropping! Quote
AggiesAreWe Posted September 16, 2014 Report Posted September 16, 2014 I agree that now that the "new" is wearing off, the numbers and interest is decreasing. No doubt about that. I agree with several of your points. I just found the comparison with SHSU is not a good one when Lamar is still "out drawing" SHSU in attendance, even though SHSU is clearly better than Lamar on the field the last several seasons. Now, a better comparison would be McNeese, who is just a 35 minute drive from Beaumont. They kick Lamar in attendance every year and is usually the largest home game for Lamar. Quote
CraigS Posted September 16, 2014 Report Posted September 16, 2014 I agree that now that the "new" is wearing off, the numbers and interest is decreasing. No doubt about that. I agree with several of your points. I just found the comparison with SHSU is not a good one when Lamar is still "out drawing" SHSU in attendance, even though SHSU is clearly better than Lamar on the field the last several seasons. Now, a better comparison would be McNeese, who is just a 35 minute drive from Beaumont. They kick Lamar in attendance every year and is usually the largest home game for Lamar. No...not a good comparison or at least not a FAIR comparison - people of the Coonass variety "out party" everyone....lol :D and on your first point about outdrawing SHSU - yes overall I suppose your right (backed with numbers) but if you look at the large contrast to quality of opponents with SHSU it should reflect that not even as a "good team" fans will not attend low performing opponents as compared to the attendance for the better teams. So, I still believe that the new factor is what is propping up Lu's numbers...in the 5th year (of any new program OR just getting a new coach) the results are all on that coach...all HIS recruits and coaching strategy is well in place....I have touched (but not to much) on the coaching (because it's looked down upon in this forum) - BUT - that may be the BIGGEST problem LU has. Quote
Pirate88 Posted September 16, 2014 Author Report Posted September 16, 2014 Let me ask a new question. Let's say Lamar finally starts putting out a good product on the field and the Southland titles and playoff appearances start rolling in. I think Lamar will see a increase in attendence, tailgating and everything else across the board. Will the fans be satisfied with that product? When Lamar first brought back football, all the talk was going FBS and playing with the big boys. All that talk has seemed to vanish over the past couple of years. Has the realization set in that Lamar is never going to be at that level or what? I personally think the current admin at Lamar would be satisfied being a "McNeese" and staying put in the Southland. As a fan and a grad of Lamar, I want to see them take that next step. I want to see a 30,000+ stadium at Lamar and part of a mid-major conference. Is it possible? I think it is, but it's years away from happening. If that is the goal of the Lamar admin, then they have wasted 5 years trying to reach it. Quote
CraigS Posted September 16, 2014 Report Posted September 16, 2014 Let me ask a new question. Let's say Lamar finally starts putting out a good product on the field and the Southland titles and playoff appearances start rolling in. I think Lamar will see a increase in attendence, tailgating and everything else across the board. Will the fans be satisfied with that product? When Lamar first brought back football, all the talk was going FBS and playing with the big boys. All that talk has seemed to vanish over the past couple of years. Has the realization set in that Lamar is never going to be at that level or what? I personally think the current admin at Lamar would be satisfied being a "McNeese" and staying put in the Southland. As a fan and a grad of Lamar, I want to see them take that next step. I want to see a 30,000+ stadium at Lamar and part of a mid-major conference. Is it possible? I think it is, but it's years away from happening. If that is the goal of the Lamar admin, then they have wasted 5 years trying to reach it. NO IT CAN'T HAPPEN All the FAILED sports programs in Beaumont over the years - Beaumont is a cesspool - a commuters town and can not and will support anything. Lamar University Football - FAILED (once already) Texas Wildcatters (Hockey) - FAILED Beaumont Bullfrogs (Baseball) - FAILED Beaumont Golden Gators (Baseball) - FAILED even with Future Major League Baseball players John Kruk, Roberto Alomar, Joey Cora, Ozzie Guillén, Sandy Alomar, Jr., Shane Mack, andBenito Santiago all played at one time for the Golden Gators Southeast Texas Mavericks (Basketball) - FAILED Texas Strikers (Soccer) - FAILED Texas Drillers (Football) - FAILED On another note - Ford Park can't even maintain events enough to be considered a success. And this is terrible - over the years we had season tickets to The Wildcatters (didn't know a thing about hockey - but fun to watch) The Bullfrogs and the Golden Gators. Quote
BlackShirts5 Posted September 16, 2014 Report Posted September 16, 2014 NO IT CAN'T HAPPEN All the FAILED sports programs in Beaumont over the years - Beaumont is a cesspool - a commuters town and can not and will support anything. Lamar University Football - FAILED (once already) Texas Wildcatters (Hockey) - FAILED Beaumont Bullfrogs (Baseball) - FAILED Beaumont Golden Gators (Baseball) - FAILED even with Future Major League Baseball players John Kruk, Roberto Alomar, Joey Cora, Ozzie Guillén, Sandy Alomar, Jr., Shane Mack, andBenito Santiago all played at one time for the Golden Gators Southeast Texas Mavericks (Basketball) - FAILED Texas Strikers (Soccer) - FAILED Texas Drillers (Football) - FAILED On another note - Ford Park can't even maintain events enough to be considered a success. And this is terrible - over the years we had season tickets to The Wildcatters (didn't know a thing about hockey - but fun to watch) The Bullfrogs and the Golden Gators. I agree.. Quote
Bigdog Posted September 16, 2014 Report Posted September 16, 2014 It seems that although some schools have high High School followings that it is not translating to Lamar, even when local players are playing there. That would point to the product on the field and also to people who are loyal to "their" college school. A&M , UT, LSU and even SFA have large followings down here, even among LU grads. Quote
NorthoftheBorder Posted September 16, 2014 Report Posted September 16, 2014 NO IT CAN'T HAPPEN All the FAILED sports programs in Beaumont over the years - Beaumont is a cesspool - a commuters town and can not and will support anything. Lamar University Football - FAILED (once already) Texas Wildcatters (Hockey) - FAILED Beaumont Bullfrogs (Baseball) - FAILED Beaumont Golden Gators (Baseball) - FAILED even with Future Major League Baseball players John Kruk, Roberto Alomar, Joey Cora, Ozzie Guillén, Sandy Alomar, Jr., Shane Mack, andBenito Santiago all played at one time for the Golden Gators Southeast Texas Mavericks (Basketball) - FAILED Texas Strikers (Soccer) - FAILED Texas Drillers (Football) - FAILED On another note - Ford Park can't even maintain events enough to be considered a success. And this is terrible - over the years we had season tickets to The Wildcatters (didn't know a thing about hockey - but fun to watch) The Bullfrogs and the Golden Gators. It can't happen just because it can't happen as if there is some artificial barrier that prevents it no matter what. The problem is we do not have the right people on deck doing the right things!!! I am utterly convinced that with the right plan, the RIGHT PEOPLE executing the plan, and the proper funding, then Lamar Football/Basketball/Baseball et al would be highly successful and could move up the conference ladder!!! Get the first 2 of my formula right and the third will take care of itself. Donors, season ticket holders and game attendance will increase significantly. shovel, whatnamecanipick and Ultimatefan 3 Quote
TXHORN_ET Posted September 16, 2014 Report Posted September 16, 2014 What do some of y'all have against Woodard? Quote
Pirate88 Posted September 16, 2014 Author Report Posted September 16, 2014 [quote name="TXHORN_ET" post="1535018" timestamp="1410900180"] What do some of y'all have against Woodard?[/quote I have nothing against him personally. I just think he was not the right man for the job 7 years ago. Lamar is not competitive in the Southland yet. He has to take some of the blame for drop in attendence and fan base. There's no reason Lamar shouldn't be competing in the Southland. Can't say it's because we are new and need time to get players in. It's going on 5 years playing now. How far off the starting line has Woodard gotten us? CraigS 1 Quote
Peppermint Patty Posted September 17, 2014 Report Posted September 17, 2014 This can't help: http://www.houstonchronicle.com/local/education/campus-chronicles/article/Beaumont-is-least-educated-major-U-S-city-study-5758815.php Quote
OldTimer Posted September 17, 2014 Report Posted September 17, 2014 I do not see the situation at Lamar getting any better any time in the near future. This is the problem with Lamar - Lamar does not have a lot of students that buy into the school the way other schools do. When you go to Texas, Texas A&M, Sam Houston State, Stephen F Austin and most other schools you move to or near the campus and participate in the area activities many or most of which directly relate to the school - like the athletic programs. A lot - and I think most - of the students at Lamar commute from their hometowns to attend - my daughter graduated from Lamar in December of 2013 and lived in Liberty the whole time she attended Lamar - I know many other students that did the same thing from many of the surrounding area towns. Therefore, they do not become "sold" or "invested" in the school like students at Texas and A&M (and others) do. I went to the college several times and was surprised at the number of student vehicles that either did not have a Lamar sticker or had stickers from Texas, Texas A&M and other colleges on their vehicles. Go to Austin or College Station and look a vehicles on campus and you will see virtually every vehicle will have a sticker for Texas or A&M - this is a loyalty question - loyalty leads to attendance at school functions that includes athletic events. I went to SFA and we were called a suitcase college as a ton of students left every weekend to go home or to other colleges rather than stay in Nacogdoches, Texas. Lamar's problem I believe is even deeper as the students never really buy into the school they are there because - in a lot of cases - they have limited other options due to (1) having to work, (2) parents cannot afford to pay rent for them to attend college away from home or (3) Married with children and the close major college is the best answer. Big girl and Cat22 2 Quote
NorthoftheBorder Posted September 17, 2014 Report Posted September 17, 2014 I do not see the situation at Lamar getting any better any time in the near future. This is the problem with Lamar - Lamar does not have a lot of students that buy into the school the way other schools do. When you go to Texas, Texas A&M, Sam Houston State, Stephen F Austin and most other schools you move to or near the campus and participate in the area activities many or most of which directly relate to the school - like the athletic programs. A lot - and I think most - of the students at Lamar commute from their hometowns to attend - my daughter graduated from Lamar in December of 2013 and lived in Liberty the whole time she attended Lamar - I know many other students that did the same thing from many of the surrounding area towns. Therefore, they do not become "sold" or "invested" in the school like students at Texas and A&M (and others) do. I went to the college several times and was surprised at the number of student vehicles that either did not have a Lamar sticker or had stickers from Texas, Texas A&M and other colleges on their vehicles. Go to Austin or College Station and look a vehicles on campus and you will see virtually every vehicle will have a sticker for Texas or A&M - this is a loyalty question - loyalty leads to attendance at school functions that includes athletic events. I went to SFA and we were called a suitcase college as a ton of students left every weekend to go home or to other colleges rather than stay in Nacogdoches, Texas. Lamar's problem I believe is even deeper as the students never really buy into the school they are there because - in a lot of cases - they have limited other options due to (1) having to work, (2) parents cannot afford to pay rent for them to attend college away from home or (3) Married with children and the close major college is the best answer. so the take away for me is that you are not a graduate of TAMU, but of SFA? Quote
OldTimer Posted September 17, 2014 Report Posted September 17, 2014 so the take away for me is that you are not a graduate of TAMU, but of SFA? Yes - Raised as an Aggie in an Aggie family but was the black sheep of the family as I did graduate from SFA. But also had a sister graduate from Texas Tech - a brother graduate from Texas and another brother graduate from Texas A&M (Corp of Cadet as well). So I come from a very diverse background when talking colleges :D Quote
OldTimer Posted September 17, 2014 Report Posted September 17, 2014 For full disclosure - had a son graduate from Texas A&M and my daughter (previously mentioned) graduated from Lamar. Quote
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