HJ Hawks for Christ Issues?

[NorthoftheBorder]

The wedding cake argument is a tough one for me, to be honest, but it's not the same issue. Denying someone.a service because of their sexuality is on one hand, the same as denying service because they're black, which is completely wrong. In this one instance, however, I actually agree with you. Because if you're a Christian who has strong beliefs about homosexuality, I think it's reasonable to deny this particular service, as it goes against the cake maker's religious beliefs. This is similar to a church choosing not to perform a same sex wedding. On the flip side, if a restarant owner denied service to homosexuals, I would have a huge problem with it, as eating is not something that he could claim as a pillar of his religion reserved only for heterosexuals. All that being said, denying someone a service based on religion is completely different than denying someone the right to force religion at a place where the government forces other people to go, or at an event sponsored by a place that is an extension of the government. The government does not have the power to stop individuals from partaking in religion, as this is their right, no matter where they are. But it does have the power to keep the majority, no matter their beliefs, from trampling on the rights of the minority. And when people claim their rights are being violated because they are not allowed to pray over a loud speaker or a school is not allowed to sponsor a Christian event, they're making a claim to rights that they in fact do not have.

Ethnicity, skin color and gender are quite different from sexual preference!  And serving anyone a meal in restaurant is also quite differernt from a civil ceremony celebrating something,  Quite frankly, unless you are trying to prove a point and force something upon someone that they do not believe, you just go to get your wedding cake from someone who supports it!! 

[CraigS]

what difference does it make? if you don't believe it exists, you still don't want your kid ingrained with it at school, anymore than you would if you were muslim. why do Christians who don't believe in evolution not want their kids to hear about it in science class? If it doesn't exist in their mind, they should not care, right?

I believe evolution does exist, however, I'd rather it taught correctly. GOD is the creator of ALL. From which GOD has created, I do believe forms of life have evolved (man is even smarter than first created through trials and errors, etc). however, an single cell did not evolve to (and I'll skip a few years here) monkey then monkey to man.......otherwise that process would still be happening...which it is not!

[CraigS]

In my mind it would be this...Atheist do not believe or have anything they support or believe in....AND (in their mind) Christians have a made up superior being in which they DO believe.

 

SO...If a new football team (school) chose not to have a mascot, they don't like them, don't believe they should have one so they are just (name a city) university....PERIOD.........Then you have the Virginia Tech Hokies...a Hokie is made up, there is no such thing as a Hokie, in fact the "bird" in which they use is also a made up "critter"......should (name a city) university be allowed to keep VT from cheering the  Hokies because they don't believe in a mascot and the Hokie isn't a REAL thing......yes it DOES sound silly...because it IS....

 

If they don't want a God or want to believe that one doesn't exist, or that it is a made up being.....great...but that doesn't mean our REAL (or made up) GOD should not be allowed to be worshiped (cheered)....

 

I can hear it now...I don't take my kids to VT games because I don't want them hearing anything about a made up fictionous character, they might even ask me...Dad, what's a Hokie...and I'd then I'd have to tell them its not real son...it's made up... it may scar them for life...lol

[tvc184]

IN GOD WE TRUST

 

......... all others are checked for warrants.

[westend1]

I believe evolution does exist, however, I'd rather it taught correctly. GOD is the creator of ALL. From which GOD has created, I do believe forms of life have evolved (man is even smarter than first created through trials and errors, etc). however, an single cell did not evolve to (and I'll skip a few years here) monkey then monkey to man.......otherwise that process would still be happening...which it is not!

What makes you think evolution is not occurring?    Because you haven't seen it in your short life span?  I truly think some people have no concept of deep time.  You really have no idea how long a billion years truly is.     But, if no evolution is occurring, as you seem to think, how do you explain drug resistant strains of virus?  That is evolution on a very small scale.   Give em a couple of billion years and you would see all kinds of new and strange things.  

[CraigS]

What makes you think evolution is not occurring?    Because you haven't seen it in your short life span?  I truly think some people have no concept of deep time.  You really have no idea how long a billion years truly is.     But, if no evolution is occurring, as you seem to think, how do you explain drug resistant strains of virus?  That is evolution on a very small scale.   Give em a couple of billion years and you would see all kinds of new and strange things.  

 

I believe evolution does exist, however, I'd rather it taught correctly. GOD is the creator of ALL. From which GOD has created, I do believe forms of life have evolved (man is even smarter than first created through trials and errors, etc). however, an single cell did not evolve to (and I'll skip a few years here) monkey then monkey to man.......otherwise that process would still be happening...which it is not!

Read better! and I STILL do not believe ebola will become a MAN! Yes, I believe we will see different strains of virus', and strange things....up to and including vaccinations by the ever evolving brain of mankind....however, I don't believe earth will exist in another billion years...

[westend1]

Read better! and I STILL do not believe ebola will become a MAN! Yes, I believe we will see different strains of virus', and strange things....up to and including vaccinations by the ever evolving brain of mankind....however, I don't believe earth will exist in another billion years...

Why do you believe that earth will not exist in a billion years?

[CraigS]

Why do you believe that earth will not exist in a billion years?

God destroyed earth by floods the first time, it was not that long after the creation of man....therefore I don't believe it will be that long before He decides to do it again - by fire!

[bullets13]

In my mind it would be this...Atheist do not believe or have anything they support or believe in....AND (in their mind) Christians have a made up superior being in which they DO believe.
 
SO...If a new football team (school) chose not to have a mascot, they don't like them, don't believe they should have one so they are just (name a city) university....PERIOD.........Then you have the Virginia Tech Hokies...a Hokie is made up, there is no such thing as a Hokie, in fact the "bird" in which they use is also a made up "critter"......should (name a city) university be allowed to keep VT from cheering the  Hokies because they don't believe in a mascot and the Hokie isn't a REAL thing......yes it DOES sound silly...because it IS....
 
If they don't want a God or want to believe that one doesn't exist, or that it is a made up being.....great...but that doesn't mean our REAL (or made up) GOD should not be allowed to be worshiped (cheered)....
 
I can hear it now...I don't take my kids to VT games because I don't want them hearing anything about a made up fictionous character, they might even ask me...Dad, what's a Hokie...and I'd then I'd have to tell them its not real son...it's made up... it may scar them for life...lol

this whole analogy makes no sense. but the one part I would bring out of it is "if they don't want a God or want to believe that one doesn't exist, or that it is a made up being... great....but that doesn't mean our REAL (or made up) GOD should not be allowed to be worshipped."

and my response is that nobody is telling you not to worship God... nor are they trying to keep you from doing so. again, the only thing Christians are not being allowed to do is expose Christianity to others who do not want to be exposed, or who's parents do not want them to be exposed to it. School, a place where children MUST go based on law, is not the place to do so anyway. There are measures in place to ensure that Christian students have the right to worship, both alone and in groups while at school, so apart from Christians just REALLY feeling like their Christianity puts them above following the Constitution, I don't really understand what they feel like they're losing when they aren't allowed to expose people who aren't interested in their beliefs.

[RETIREDFAN1]

although differently worded, it is one of the six purposes of the constitution listed in the preamble.

 

The Preamble does not grant ANYTHING to the government....by definition, the Preamble tells why the Constitution was written....if there is not any stated or implied authority IN THE ACTUAL BODY OF THE DOCUMENT, then the federal government is not Constitutionally authorized to do it.........so, please find me the specific or implied authority from the body of the document which authorizes the federal government to do those things.......

[bullets13]

The Preamble does not grant ANYTHING to the government....by definition, the Preamble tells why the Constitution was written....if there is not any stated or implied authority IN THE ACTUAL BODY OF THE DOCUMENT, then the federal government is not Constitutionally authorized to do it.........so, please find me the specific or implied authority from the body of the document which authorizes the federal government to do those things.......

 

I'm not sure where you read that i said the preamble granted anything.  I just said that it lists the purposes of the constitution.  Perhaps you can direct me to the part of the constitution allowing for the subjection of one's religious beliefs onto another that does not want to hear them?

[RETIREDFAN1]

I'm not sure where you read that i said the preamble granted anything.  I just said that it lists the purposes of the constitution.  Perhaps you can direct me to the part of the constitution allowing for the subjection of one's religious beliefs onto another that does not want to hear them?

My bad...I misread what you said......

The Constitution authorizes and limits what GOVERNMENT can and cannot do.....individuals are not subject to anything except laws which were legally passed under the authority of that document.......the FIRST AMENDMENT prohibits Congress from making any laws that would establish a religion OR passing any laws that would prohibit the free exercise of religion.......anything that violates either of those clauses to the FIRST AMENDMENT are illegal.....

[mat]

What makes you think evolution is not occurring?    Because you haven't seen it in your short life span?  I truly think some people have no concept of deep time.  You really have no idea how long a billion years truly is.     But, if no evolution is occurring, as you seem to think, how do you explain drug resistant strains of virus?  That is evolution on a very small scale.   Give em a couple of billion years and you would see all kinds of new and strange things.

I don't think any of us can truly grasp a billion year concept. By the same token we can't truly grasp eternity either, which should be the bigger concern. ( - :

[westend1]

I am concerned , Mat.  I'm concerned that I cant ;buy into a worldwide flood when there is no evidence to support it.   I am concerned that I can't experience miracles that were not well documented 2000 years ago.   Would love to be able to make that leap of faith, but this brain that God gave me just doesn't allow it.

[RETIREDFAN1]

I cant ;buy into a worldwide flood when there is no evidence to support it.

http://www.apologeticspress.org/APContent.aspx?category=9&article=979&topic=61

http://apologeticspress.org/apcontent.aspx?category=9&article=130

https://www.apologeticspress.org/apcontent.aspx?category=9&article=132

http://www.apologeticspress.org/apcontent.aspx?category=9&article=2207

https://www.apologeticspress.org/apcontent.aspx?category=9&article=1729

[mat]

Westend - I understand. My God given brain (as limited as it is) limits my understanding too. I just can't comprehend the complexity of this earth, (whether it's a few thousand or a few billion years old) the universe, man and all living creatures, and the countless wonders of this world accidentally existing without the divine help of His hand; no matter how much scientist try to disprove it with their God given brains.

 

The brain itself is a brilliantly complex part of our being but God also gives us a soul and spirit to mesh with His spirit. Our brains work much differently when we accept his spirit.

 

No offense intended.

[westend1]

I don't get offended by honest thought, Mat.  I get offended when people think they have every answer and everybody/anybody who questions it is wrong or a liar.

[CraigS]

GOD - does he exist - or doesn't he, that seems to be the simple, yet complex question...some need proof and others are content with having faith....

 

Here is a thought for you Westend1 -

 

If you choose to believe and live your life as "if" God does exist and he ends up not existing - You've lost nothing - You've lived a caring, compassionate, moral life having hope of a eternal life beyond anything imaginable to the God given brain....

 

On the other hand, you choose to not believe, you have ignored and lived your life as if there will be no consequences, without hope of anything other than to return to dirt...yet in the end, there is a God, - it will be a really bad day for you...a day beyond anything imaginable to the God given brain...

 

Take the leap of faith without fear, you have nothing to lose, and everything to gain!

[5GallonBucket]

That takes one admitting one is wrong and sinful Craig S.

 

Many non believers don't want to admit that they are wrong or are living a sinful lifestyle.  Though yes even Christians sin..........

[westend1]

That takes one admitting one is wrong and sinful Craig S.

 

Many non believers don't want to admit that they are wrong or are living a sinful lifestyle.  Though yes even Christians sin..........

I don't think I live a sinful lifestyle, so I have nothing to admit.  You guys act like you can simply choose to believe something that you aren't sure about.   I am not built that way.   If your god is vindictive enough to send me to some type of hell because I am not sure, then so be it.  I just don't believe that.  If he is compassionate and loving like you say, he wouldn't do that.  i wouldn't.

[CraigS]

That takes one admitting one is wrong and sinful Craig S.

 

Many non believers don't want to admit that they are wrong or are living a sinful lifestyle.  Though yes even Christians sin..........

 

I don't think I live a sinful lifestyle, so I have nothing to admit.  You guys act like you can simply choose to believe something that you aren't sure about.   I am not built that way.   If your god is vindictive enough to send me to some type of hell because I am not sure, then so be it.  I just don't believe that.  If he is compassionate and loving like you say, he wouldn't do that.  i wouldn't.

We have a winner - 5gallonbucket

[NorthoftheBorder]

I am concerned , Mat.  I'm concerned that I cant ;buy into a worldwide flood when there is no evidence to support it.   I am concerned that I can't experience miracles that were not well documented 2000 years ago.   Would love to be able to make that leap of faith, but this brain that God gave me just doesn't allow it.

You can't believe because there is not enough evidence...........now there is a novel idea!  Very similar to the problem I am having with the "Big Bang" theory from the secular scientists that you are putting your faith in!

[NorthoftheBorder]

I don't think I live a sinful lifestyle, so I have nothing to admit.  You guys act like you can simply choose to believe something that you aren't sure about.   I am not built that way.   If your god is vindictive enough to send me to some type of hell because I am not sure, then so be it.  I just don't believe that.  If he is compassionate and loving like you say, he wouldn't do that.  i wouldn't.

Unless anyone has had a supernatural encounter with the risen Lord, no amount of debate, words written on a Messge Board Thread, or words on paper in a book called the Bible will convince anyone who does not want to believe.  No one can believe without the supernatural work of the Holy Spirit!

[westend1]

You can't believe because there is not enough evidence...........now there is a novel idea!  Very similar to the problem I am having with the "Big Bang" theory from the secular scientists that you are putting your faith in!

Why do you assume I put any faith in a "secular scientist"?

[westend1]

We have a winner - 5gallonbucket

Ha ha!  You guys admit you are sinful and somehow that makes you more holy?   smh