Newton 19 West Orange-Stark 7/Final

[HJ2012]

Yes hj has a lot of basketball history, I certainly would not debate that. However, it's a football thread and sorry to tell them that football pays the bills. WOS needs a more competitive district and I am glad to see them doing well.

 

Got to say that WOS should be much better in basketball than what we have been, we should put more importance on that area of our program. It should not be when one sport is on an elite level the rest should suffer.

 

Aggies, what area do you think WOS is weaker? Lost two offensive lineman (at least to the best of my recollection), both linebackers I believe, one starting cb (two if you count james), Chris James at rb, and then the QB attrition in the offseason.

 

Not really a large loss from the team from last year. Now if you say the line isn't playing up to its capabilities, I can possibly agree with that. If you say the Qb is inconsistent because he is young, I might possibly can agree with that. However, Mr. Cole took a few games to get his footing as well. I think this is just as talented a team overall as last year, but i would agree not as good as two years ago. Now are we playing as well as last year, you might have a case there. However, most people said we couldn't hang with PNG and Foster and we did. Would this discussion be taking place had we drummed Newton? Now next year, I expect us to start slow and who knows. We will be loosing a lot of talent this year.

 

Aggie, let me say I do value your opinion highly.

If we're talking just history, as that's been the only thing Legacy has been able to come up with as far as arguments, then HJ basketball takes the cake. I'm arguing that it really means nothing. HJ has had the longstanding tradition of bball dominance, but guess what, WO-S was obviously able to beat them. HJ's bball tradition can't help them at all this year. As I mentioned earlier, the longstanding history of the Bears means NOTHING. West Orange's dominance in the past means ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!!!! It's a new year and with that comes a whole new set of downs. Your past doesn't win games for you, but for some reason it seems that no one seems to understand that.

[stangx2]

Where is puffington?

 

dreamland!

[AggiesAreWe]

First of all, it has to start at losing two QB's to begin the season. In no way am I knocking Jack Dallas. He will be very good in time. But the fact is, you had two dynamic QB's heading into this season and with either one of them, I thought you guys would make Jerry World with a shot at state title. Losing both set you guys back a bit.

 

I also think the Mustang run game has digressed. WO-S needs to be more successful in the run game which would also take some heat of the young, inexperienced Dallas. He could be more potent with a solid running game behind him.

 

This non factor run game could lead to the O-line not playing up to standards. IMO, WO-S should not be asking the young QB to pass the ball 37 times in a game. The Stangs need to fix the run game if they are to make that deep run in the playoffs that I and many others expected them to do this season.

 

Only thing I can say about that Chain Gang defense is where was it last Friday night? 350+ rushing yards given up and that team (Newton) only attempted 2 passes the entire night? It has always been my understanding that CT has always expressed taking away one part of a team's offense in order for the Stangs to pin their ears back on the other part. That was not the case Friday night. I have never heard of a WO-S opponent be so successful being a one-trick pony offense. What happened?

[stangx2]

If we're talking just history, as that's been the only thing Legacy has been able to come up with as far as arguments, then HJ basketball takes the cake. I'm arguing that it really means nothing. HJ has had the longstanding tradition of bball dominance, but guess what, WO-S was obviously able to beat them. HJ's bball tradition can't help them at all this year. As I mentioned earlier, the longstanding history of the Bears means NOTHING. West Orange's dominance in the past means ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!!!! It's a new year and with that comes a whole new set of downs. Your past doesn't win games for you, but for some reason it seems that no one seems to understand that.

 

I disagree a little with you. If a team has dominated you, you dread playing that game. Now, if the tides have turned and you THINK you have a chance to win, something totally different comes into play. If you jump out on that team your in good shape, but what happens if that team jumps out on you by two scores? Do you still have the confidence you had before the game or do you say to yourself, "Here we go again." A team that hasn't dominated you it is easier to say it's Ok, we got this.

 

Don't get me wrong I don't think it plays a major role, but to say it plays no role at all is a little naive.

[HJ2012]

HJ2012, I do want to thank you for making time pass by so quick today! 10hrs didn't seem to last too long today!LOL

My pleasure. I haven't been on since high school, and this whole thing got my blood pumping a bit! I do think I know a bit about basketball, though. For those that know who I am (if some of the ol faithful HJ guys are on here), I think they can vouch for me, that basketball is where I am far more knowledgeable and have made the most noise. And yes, I've been under the tutelage of a few of the best in the state. I'm just over here now because we've finally got a group worth talking about.

[stangx2]

First of all, it has to start at losing two QB's to begin the season. In no way am I knocking Jack Dallas. He will be very good in time. But the fact is, you had two dynamic QB's heading into this season and with either one of them, I thought you guys would make Jerry World with a shot at state title. Losing both set you guys back a bit.

 

I also think the Mustang run game has digressed. WO-S needs to be more successful in the run game which would also take some heat of the young, inexperienced Dallas. He could be more potent with a solid running game behind him.

 

This non factor run game could lead to the O-line not playing up to standards. IMO, WO-S should not be asking the young QB to pass the ball 37 times in a game. The Stangs need to fix the run game if they are to make that deep run in the playoffs that I and many others expected them to do this season.

 

Only thing I can say about that Chain Gang defense is where was it last Friday night? 350+ rushing yards given up and that team (Newton) only attempted 2 passes the entire night? It has always been my understanding that CT has always expressed taking away one part of a team's offense in order for the Stangs to pin their ears back on the other part. That was not the case Friday night. I have never heard of a WO-S opponent be so successful being a one-trick pony offense. What happened?

 

I certainly agree with the run game, it is unrealistic to ask Jack to throw that much. I agree that the defense did not play well against Newton (I think CT would as well). However, it is an abberation or a trend. All you can point to is what happened before that game and what traditionally it has been.  Foster did not put up big numbers. Time will tell, but if your a statistical kind of guy, right now at least, it points to an abberation.  At least that's my story and I am sticking to it. ;)

[HJ2012]

I disagree a little with you. If a team has dominated you, you dread playing that game. Now, if the tides have turned and you THINK you have a chance to win, something totally different comes into play. If you jump out on that team your in good shape, but what happens if that team jumps out on you by two scores? Do you still have the confidence you had before the game or do you say to yourself, "Here we go again." A team that hasn't dominated you it is easier to say it's Ok, we got this.

 

Don't get me wrong I don't think it plays a major role, but to say it plays no role at all is a little naive.

I agree, BUT, I think you and I both can agree that neither one of these teams is going to jump out far at any point in this game. It's going to come down who's defense has been on the field the most. Whichever defense is the most worn down will lose this game.

[stangx2]

I agree, BUT, I think you and I both can agree that neither one of these teams is going to jump out far at any point in this game. It's going to come down who's defense has been on the field the most. Whichever defense is the most worn down will lose this game.

 

You know most times I would agree with you, but honestly if you think back to most big games like Super Bowls, it seems like it just doesn't go that way. The few times it does seem to happen are classics (like the 69 Horn-Razerback game). I honestly hope that it is a good close game. That way it would benefit both teams more. Here's hoping that it will be a game everyone will remember for a long time.

[stangx2]

Honestly, in my book. The team that scores first will win the game.

[HJ2012]

If one team scores and the other quickly answers, I think it'll be fine, like the Tatum HJ game last week, but if you throw too much time in between answered points, you start to see teams panic.

[stangx2]

If one team scores and the other quickly answers, I think it'll be fine, like the Tatum HJ game last week, but if you throw too much time in between answered points, you start to see teams panic.

 

agreed!

[HJ2012]

Stang, let me pick your brain a bit. If you win the toss, do you want it now or defer to the second half?

[CraigS]

Since we are on the topic of tradition - I like most can agree WOS leads in football tradition, - Whereas HJ leads in BB tradition!

 

However, I'll take Silsbee - they are pretty dang good in BOTH (not this year in FB) over the years....

 

AND - since this is all going on on the WOS -v- Newton thread, I can't say - and back on topic....but I can stay with the direction it has taken......

 

Tradition has nothing to do with who wins the WOS -v- HJ game.........WOS being the better team does...

 

HJ WILL NOT beat WOS

[Back2swag]

Yea 19-7 , I don't think Wos would win 10 times .. It was 19-0 till late 3rd

[skipper]

Yea 19-7 , I don't think Wos would win 10 times .. It was 19-0 till late 3rd

let me give YOU a history lesson ---------------------------------------its over get over it

[skipper]

let me give YOU a history lesson ---------------------------------------its over get over it

 

let me give YOU a history lesson ---------------------------------------its over get over it

[HJ2012]

I think skipper is ready to put this one behind him!

[skipper]

_:)  yep i am got a other game to play friday so why should i look back to a butt kicking by newton

[stangx2]

Stang, let me pick your brain a bit. If you win the toss, do you want it now or defer to the second half?

 

I take the ball!

[HJ2012]

I take the ball!

See, that's what I thought, too. But then I got to thinking, if you get the ball at the beginning, and have a real slow start, you may be in a bind when the other team has it to start the second half. On the other hand, if you could score on that first possession, it could really kick-start your team and a huge momentum boost as well. I think I defer here, just because I don't want to take the gamble against a good team.

[AggiesAreWe]

When playing a team like HJ who runs a run oriented offense, always take the ball first. You have to do what you can to make a team like that play from behind every chance you can. Got to get them off schedule as much as possible. Get them out of their comfort zone and make them do things they do not like doing, like passing the ball more than they would like.

 

Of course, easy to say, tough to do.

[bone]

Since we are on the topic of tradition - I like most can agree WOS leads in football tradition, - Whereas HJ leads in BB tradition!
 
However, I'll take Silsbee - they are pretty dang good in BOTH (not this year in FB) over the years....
 
AND - since this is all going on on the WOS -v- Newton thread, I can't say - and back on topic....but I can stay with the direction it has taken......
 
Tradition has nothing to do with who wins the WOS -v- HJ game.........WOS being the better team does...
 
HJ WILL NOT beat WOS

Well what if they do win the game? What will you say then. Just asking. Not trying to ruffle bear hides.

[HJ2012]

When playing a team like HJ who runs a run oriented offense, always take the ball first. You have to do what you can to make a team like that play from behind every chance you can. Got to get them off schedule as much as possible. Get them out of their comfort zone and make them do things they do not like doing, like passing the ball more than they would like.

 

Of course, easy to say, tough to do.

What does West Orange's front 7 look like?

[TxHoops]

WO-S did beat HJ last year in basketball (both times)

But, don't even begin to compare the history of WO-S basketball to Hardin-Jefferson basketball. You lose that argument very quickly.

As for WO-S to be in decline in basketball, you are correct, time will tell. But I am confident that the team will not be as good as the Mustang team of the last two seasons. I know what they had and what is coming up.

Are you saying Jason got out at the right time? ;)

I happen to think he did, although I don't think that was the reason. WOS could go a decade or more without having a player like the one they had leading them the past couple of seasons...

[TxHoops]

Since we are on the topic of tradition - I like most can agree WOS leads in football tradition, - Whereas HJ leads in BB tradition!

However, I'll take Silsbee - they are pretty dang good in BOTH (not this year in FB) over the years....

AND - since this is all going on on the WOS -v- Newton thread, I can't say - and back on topic....but I can stay with the direction it has taken......

Tradition has nothing to do with who wins the WOS -v- HJ game.........WOS being the better team does...

HJ WILL NOT beat WOS

When Silsbee gets finished reeling off about 15 district championships in a row, their basketball tradition will speak for itself. And I think they have a decent chance at bringing home the big prize sometime between 2016/2017 and 2018/2109.