WO-S and penalties

[Bumblebee97]

I am an ex official the second guy always get caught #13 didn't just get up swinging first punch thrown by HJ player he just didn't get caught.  

[maniacalum2036]

I know WO-S is more disciplined when it comes to not touching punts.

[MoFo]

I am just stating the fact and that is WOS was called for multiple unsportsmanlike conduct calls. I am not speculating or stating my opinion I am stating a FACT. 

 

Maybe the way some are defending the players so vehemently is part of the issue.

[WOS95]

We generally don't have the problems with penalties when we get out of this area. Not trying to insinuate, but it is what it is.

you are absolutely correct Gas, I always look forward to the playoffs...because for some reason all the penalties magically disappear...

[chukslegacy]

Hello, I'm a Hawk fan... We got called for 4 penalties and a punt that hit a player, but none of those 4 and the punt were justified... There was no player within 5 yards of the punt and the late hit out of bounds, which was on the opposite side of the field from us, was a good hit... I don't remember what the other 3 calls were for but I'm sure we didn't do it. However, I saw every single one of the 14 penalties called on the WOS players and they were all obvious... I saw everyone of them from my seat 40 rows up. You see, not only are we Hawk fans, but we also have Hawk eyes. So we can easily see and determine from the bleachers that your teams calls were obvious but ours were bogus... :)

I didn't think there was 40 rows at that stadium!

[MoFo]

I didn't think there was 40 rows at that stadium!

Chuck you have to pay extra we have hidden box seating up in the pine trees.

[bullets13]

Hello, I'm a Hawk fan... We got called for 4 penalties and a punt that hit a player, but none of those 4 and the punt were justified... There was no player within 5 yards of the punt and the late hit out of bounds, which was on the opposite side of the field from us, was a good hit... I don't remember what the other 3 calls were for but I'm sure we didn't do it. However, I saw every single one of the 14 penalties called on the WOS players and they were all obvious... I saw everyone of them from my seat 40 rows up. You see, not only are we Hawk fans, but we also have Hawk eyes. So we can easily see and determine from the bleachers that your teams calls were obvious but ours were bogus... :)

First off, I haven't seen a single HJ fan claim that the hit on Jack wasn't a late hit. Secondly, I haven't seen a single HJ fan claim that HJ didn't earn their penalties. I've seen a few who've said they should've been flagged for a late hit or two. you can try to make the hawk fans seem all high and mighty when they remember calls, but the truth of the matter is punches to the face, blatant facemasks, taunting, and dead ball fouls stick out the mind of spectators. you've probably forgotten them because they "weren't good calls."

now let me do my impersonation of you guys!

"Hello, I'm a mustang fan. that punt that didn't hit anybody definitely hit somebody cuz the fat guy in the stands next to me (you can insert "the guy I talked to that was there and actually for sure saw it") pointed at it when it happened and said it did. plus the WOS players got around the ball and looked excitedly at the ball like it was a fumble or something before calmly downing it and walking to the sidelne. Also all those stupid news people who saw three angles of the play and said there's no way he touched it are wrong because I clearly saw him touch it from 75 yards away from the top of the stands! video evidence? if you squint your eyes and tilt your head (to the left, not the right) the news footage clearly looks like it might have touched him, so the ref definitely got that call right. only call he got right all game! Besides that stellar call by the eagle-eyed referee, WOS got cheated by the refs all night or we'd have won by 100. we didn't commit a single deserved penalty but got called for 13. HJ only got called for 4, but I'll provide one or two more examples of penalties that should've been called on HJ, thus proving the referee bias. totally unfair!"

[bullets13]

I am an ex official the second guy always get caught #13 didn't just get up swinging first punch thrown by HJ player he just didn't get caught.

he didn't throw a punch. he tackled him really hard. but it was a borderline late hit, and he slammed the crap out of him, so I can understand why he was mad. and you're right about the second guy always getting caught.

[Gasilla]

Do you think it's possible that HJ may be a bit more disciplined than West Orange when it comes to that? False starts are pretty hard to dispute. I couldn't see the hit at the beginning because I was sitting too low in the stands and there were players blocking my view on that play, so maybe it was a good call. I don't know. I did see a quite a few obvious holds against WO-S that didn't get called, so don't say they were calling it too tight. The style of offense that WO-S runs is going to yield more penalties because it requires players to block longer. HJ's offense doesn't do that. You hit the first guy, then come off and pick up someone else.

This post is to long, please cut it to 20.,000 words or less and I'll read it...:)

[Gasilla]

First off, I haven't seen a single HJ fan claim that the hit on Jack wasn't a late hit. Secondly, I haven't seen a single HJ fan claim that HJ didn't earn their penalties. I've seen a few who've said they should've been flagged for a late hit or two. you can try to make the hawk fans seem all high and mighty when they remember calls, but the truth of the matter is punches to the face, blatant facemasks, taunting, and dead ball fouls stick out the mind of spectators. you've probably forgotten them because they "weren't good calls."

now let me do my impersonation of you guys!

"Hello, I'm a mustang fan. that punt that didn't hit anybody definitely hit somebody cuz the fat guy in the stands next to me (you can insert "the guy I talked to that was there and actually for sure saw it") pointed at it when it happened and said it did. plus the WOS players got around the ball and looked excited like it was a fumble or something. Also all those stupid news people who saw three angles of the play and said there's no way he touched it are wrong because I clearly saw him touch it from 75 yards away from the top of the stands! video evidence? if you squint your eyes and tilt your head (to the left, not the right) the news footage clearly looks like it might have touched him, so the ref definitely got that call right. only call he got right all game! Besides that stellar call by the eagle-eyed referee, WOS got cheated by the refs all night or we'd have won by 100. we didn't commit a single deserved penalty but got called for 13. HJ only got called for 4, but I'll provide one or two more examples of penalties that should've been called on HJ, thus proving the referee bias. totally unfair!"

This post is REALLY to long, please cut it to 20,000 words or less...:)

[#1stangfan]

Gas;

 

You speak of these playoff refs like HJ fans know what you are talking about.  Remember they are fairly new to the playoffs.  As mentioned above, they are so disciplined (more so than WOS according to some) and flawless in regards to penalties, that for the first time ever a team will be awarded negative penalties for positive yards, thus adding another dimension to their game in the playoffs.

[bullets13]

This post is REALLY to long, please cut it to 20,000 words or less... :)

just take one half or the other. they're both full of useful information ;)

[MoFo]

Gas;

 

You speak of these playoff refs like HJ fans know what you are talking about.  Remember they are fairly new to the playoffs.  As mentioned above, they are so disciplined (more so than WOS according to some) and flawless in regards to penalties, that for the first time ever a team will be awarded negative penalties for positive yards, thus adding another dimension to their game.

It is about time some one gave us credit...

 

I love the fact that instead of owning up to the unsportsmanlike penalties that were called during the game, you would much rather put words in the mouths of others. 

 

No one said HJ was flawless and to tell you the truth outside of the this game I have no clue how many penalties WOS commits per game. It is not like you got called for holding, or blocking down field, or off sides you were called for UNSPORTSMANLIKE CONDUCT MULTIPLE TIMES..... I did not throw the flag, Coach Dubois did not throw the flag, the cheerleaders did not throw the flag the officials on the field did. So either they are WOS haters, or maybe just maybe instead of trying to defend their actions or put blame on the officials, the other team, or the fans, someone should hold the players accountable for their actions. 

 

Maybe this game was a fluke maybe WOS is NEVER called for unsportsmanlike conduct, if that is the case then we will just chalk it up to a physical game that had some high emotions. I don't know the answer to that someone that watches WOS play more than once a year would have to give their input.

[maniacalum2036]

Just verifying: The officiating crew responsible for the magical 28-point punt that cost HJ the game in the 1st half, was also competent enough when throwing the flags against WO-S. 

[bullets13]

Just verifying: The officiating crew responsible for the magical 28-point punt that cost HJ the game in the 1st half, was also competent enough when throwing the flags against WO-S.

just verifying: the only call the referees got right all night was when eagle eye correctly determined that a ball hit an HJ player, despite player and coach reactions, as well as video evidence that would appear to imply the contrary?

and let me verify something for real: I haven't seen a single HJ fan that said this punt call cost HJ the game, but any WOS fan who wants to pretend that it didn't have a major impact on the game is not smart (to put it nicely).

[HJ2012]

Gas;

 

You speak of these playoff refs like HJ fans know what you are talking about.  Remember they are fairly new to the playoffs.  As mentioned above, they are so disciplined (more so than WOS according to some) and flawless in regards to penalties, that for the first time ever a team will be awarded negative penalties for positive yards, thus adding another dimension to their game in the playoffs.

Re-read my post. I asked if it was possible that they were more disciplined in that area. Never said HJ was "SO DISCIPLINED" like you said I did. You will notice that all of the West Orange players were talking smack to our smallest guys. I think they knew better than to try that with Padgett/Wilkins/Edelmon. What I want to know is why you think that just because HJ now has a winning program that this is the first time we've ever watched football. You do realize that High School football isn't the only level of football there is, right? It is possible that we might know a thing or two or have seen a football game before in our lives. I guess sometimes I just forget that HJ fans aren't as smart as those geniuses from WO-S!

[maniacalum2036]

That's just the thing. Most posts that I've seen from HJ fans include some kind of disclaimer or qualifying phrase. "It didn't cost the game, but it did have a major impact..."

 

What does that even mean? What's a major impact in a game where one team had a late 4-TD lead over another? How many TD's is a major impact worth? Because WO-S had some to spare.

 

Save me all of the "if this... then this" or "maybe, coulda, woulda, shouldas"

 

But "MAYBE" it's comfort after a game HJ thought it "COULD" win, but got handled instead.

[bullets13]

That's just the thing. Most posts that I've seen from HJ fans include some kind of disclaimer or qualifying phrase. "It didn't cost the game, but it did have a major impact..."

What does that even mean? What's a major impact in a game where one team had a late 4-TD lead over another? How many TD's is a major impact worth? Because WO-S had some to spare.

Save me all of the "if this... then this" or "maybe, coulda, woulda, shouldas"

But "MAYBE" it's comfort after a game HJ thought it "COULD" win, but got handled instead.

HJ had all the momentum going into the half. They had held WOS to one first down in three drives, and sustained a long drive of their own to cut the score to 14-7 going into the half. Not only was momentum completely erased, but they also went in down two scores, a much more daunting task against a great team like WOS. I assure you had the roles been reversed, and WOS suffered a terrible call that put them down two scores in a game that they had fought and clawed their way back into, mustang fans would understand exactly what HJ fans are referring to. That's the simple answer. I won't even go into the effect the call may have had on the players, or the way it effected their offensive play calling, namely the pick they threw that effectively iced the game.

[maniacalum2036]

So it did cost the game?

[maniacalum2036]

What kept HJ from doing that the rest of the game? Too many WO-S penalties?

[HJ2012]

I don't know that the outcome would have been different, as in, I'm not sure HJ would have have won. On the contrary, maybe it's just me, but I would much rather be down one TD or tied at the half than be down two scores. At that point, HJ has to leave their comfort zone and run plays that they normally don't run. They have to start throwing the ball against a team with very good defensive backs, which is something they didn't want to do. They played defense very well at the end of the second half, and only allowed one first down in three straight possessions. I don't think it cost HJ the game, I just wish we could have seen how HJ responded with the ball plus the momentum.

[bullets13]

So it did cost the game?

I think it cost them a chance at the game. I thought coming in AND leaving that WOS was the better team, but that HJ was good enough to find a way to possibly beat them. I think any chance they had was taken away with that call, and from 3 minutes left in first to that call at the end of the half, HJ was the better team and had put themselves in position to have a shot. All momentum was killed with that call, as well as an undeserved two-score deficit restored. HJ had a big enough challenge ahead of them without having to overcome that huge of a play. Ultimately, they were unable to do so. Would they have won? Probably not. Would they have been down 28 at one point and lost by 21? Absolutely not.

[maniacalum2036]

Hmmm ok

[bullets13]

Simple math dictates that. Take away the free 7 and they're never down that much.

[maniacalum2036]

Simple math says that WO-S wins by 2 scores instead of 3? Please elaborate, I'm just a not-too-smart WO-S fan after all.