No indictment in NYPD chokehold death

[dayton]

I just don't understand why people can't just submit. If the officer is in the wrong, you have a better shot at sorting it out later than taking matters into your hands in the heat of the moment. The ultimate loser is the families of the resisters IMO.

[tvc184]

because the dude died.

I suppose that you ignored the autopsy results also.


How convenient.

[tvc184]

We can say this or that but he wouldn't be dead if not for the cop or cops. breaking the law is not cool but to be choked and handle like that for selling cigarettes. Seems a bit much imo. I'm not ssaying he should have been charged but let's not sugar code it. He or all of them killed the guy.

The idea of tying the use of force to the original offense is a bogus argument. Officers have been killed for trying to issue speeding tickets or trying to make an arrest for a non-violent crime. Use resistance starts, the original reason for the detention or arrest is usually no longer an issue. Try searching youtube for the shooting involving a Trooper Vetter in TX. He was murdered by a man that did not want to pay a seat belt ticket.

Officers do not use force because of the crime committed but because of the amount of resistance received. I have arrested people for murder with absolutely no resistance.

[tvc184]

Resisting arrest should end with death?

A lawful arrest should meet resistance?

[tvc184]

Try looking at the video before making a decision.

Funny, I was going to suggest the same thing. Now it is apparent that your glasses need a new prescription.

[TROJANSWIN]

Michael Brown deserved everything he got and officer Wilson was defending himself and needed to stop him immediately. This guy is a slightly different case. Although he was breaking the law and didn't immediately comply, the officers were awfully quick to dog pile him. It seems like they could have used a little more calm approach and probably got a better result. These officers did not intend to do great harm to the man and probably never dreamed that they were killing him. Still, they should be accountable for their actions. Ultimately their actions helps cause his death. When I worked at TDCJ and we had to take someone down, we were taught about positional asphyxia. As soon as he was under control they could have move him to a different position and it would have allowed him to breathe. The other officers who were piled on top were just as responsible. Putting weight on top of his body while he is face down causes this problem. Should they be tried for murder, no! But they should have some repercussions from their performance by the PD. they did not do a good job at work! Fired, suspended, demoted, I don't know what NYPD policies are for officers not doing their job correctly, but all of the officers involved should receive some sort of punishment. In addition, NYPD should be sued and held liable by his family. They need to do a better job training their officers to handle situations than this!

[Mr. Buddy Garrity]

Michael Brown deserved everything he got and officer Wilson was defending himself and needed to stop him immediately. This guy is a slightly different case. Although he was breaking the law and didn't immediately comply, the officers were awfully quick to dog pile him. It seems like they could have used a little more calm approach and probably got a better result. These officers did not intend to do great harm to the man and probably never dreamed that they were killing him. Still, they should be accountable for their actions. Ultimately their actions helps cause his death. When I worked at TDCJ and we had to take someone down, we were taught about positional asphyxia. As soon as he was under control they could have move him to a different position and it would have allowed him to breathe. The other officers who were piled on top were just as responsible. Putting weight on top of his body while he is face down causes this problem. Should they be tried for murder, no! But they should have some repercussions from their performance by the PD. they did not do a good job at work! Fired, suspended, demoted, I don't know what NYPD policies are for officers not doing their job correctly, but all of the officers involved should receive some sort of punishment. In addition, NYPD should be sued and held liable by his family. They need to do a better job training their officers to handle situations than this!

Yup I was taught the same when I was with TDCJ.  B)

[Big girl]

My sentiments exactly.

[Big girl]

Excessive force?

[tvc184]

No.

[PhatMack19]

I guess Hootie singing "White Christmas" is now considered racist

http://www.youngcons.com/guess-which-favorite-christmas-song-has-now-been-deemed-racist/

[5GallonBucket]

big girl put yourself in the shoes of the police........they put themselves in dangerous situations so you don't have to.

[tvc184]

Both in Texas law and in federal law, excessive force is the culpable mental state of "intentional" (although I think the federal civil rights criminal law says "willfully"). 

 

Accidentally causing a result in most states is a crime in many cases including merely damaging property but can include other crimes like homicide. In unlawful use of force or civil rights violations, it takes an act of intent or willfulness on the part of the officer to prove the crime. 

 

Under TX law as an example, Official Oppression has to show that an officer "intentionally" abused a person. If an officer hits a guy 5 times with a baton in an arrest and several months later a jury decides that 3-4 likely would have been enough, that is not an automatic unlawful act. The proving the crime in court takes proving that the officer knew that 4 hits were enough and that the last one was just retaliation or abuse. Maybe a guy is down and handcuffed and an officer steps in to get a couple of extra whacks for good measure. That is excessive force. 

[new tobie]

When the black police officer shot down the white guy at Oreilly auto parts in Orange Tx, there was no one on this board defending arnolds actions...... i guess it is what it is.

[tvc184]

When the black police officer shot down the white guy at Oreilly auto parts in Orange Tx, there was no one on this board defending arnolds actions...... i guess it is what it is.

 

Wrong. I was then and still defend him. 

[TROJANSWIN]

When the black police officer shot down the white guy at Oreilly auto parts in Orange Tx, there was no one on this board defending arnolds actions...... i guess it is what it is.

I must have missed that. I don't remember hearing about the riots and looting in Orange.

[tvc184]

I must have missed that. I don't remember hearing about the riots and looting in Orange.

It was horrible but Fox News censored it.

[new tobie]

I must have missed that. I don't remember hearing about the riots and looting in Orange.

there was no riots and looting in jasper either when they tied a man to a pickup truck and and ended his life either.

[TROJANSWIN]

there was no riots and looting in jasper either when they tied a man to a pickup truck and and ended his life either.

So when two pieces of crap kill another piece of crap it's ok, but when a cop defends himself from a piece of crap we should riot? Is that what you are getting at? Or did you mean it is only when a white cop defends himself against a black piece of crap? Then we should riot! Ok, I think I got it now. Sounds like the same plan Obama and Holder follow. It is ok for All the dope heads and thugs in te country to kill each other over five dollars or a pair of shoes. It is not ok for a police officer to do his job and then defend himself. Makes sense! You ever thought about working in politics? Can you speak Chinese? If not, you may be able to be ambassador to China. Seems to be the qualification necessary to get appointed.

[Mr. Buddy Garrity]

there was no riots and looting in jasper either when they tied a man to a pickup truck and and ended his life either.

True. Only marching if I remember correctly. 

[thetragichippy]

When the black police officer shot down the white guy at Oreilly auto parts in Orange Tx, there was no one on this board defending arnolds actions...... i guess it is what it is.

 

I also supported the officer.

 

It appears when you can't find racism, you make things up to make people appear racist.  Why is that?

[tvc184]

new tobie, on 06 Dec 2014 - 4:17 PM, said:


there was no riots and looting in jasper either when they tied a man to a pickup truck and and ended his life either.

True but the guilty parties were soon arrested and two of three were given the death sentence. That is not the same as Orange where there was no indictment.

Again, apples and oranges.

[Baba Ganoush]

True but the guilty parties were soon arrested and two of three were given the death sentence. That is not the same as Orange where there was no indictment.

Again, apples and oranges.

Whew, glad you picked those two fruits. Could have gotten ugly!

[Mr. Buddy Garrity]

Whew, glad you picked those two fruits. Could have gotten ugly!

Sorta like that idiot in Cleveland that compared blacks to apples hanging from a tree? Yeah you right. ;)

[TROJANSWIN]

Sorta like that idiot in Cleveland that compared blacks to apples hanging from a tree? Yeah you right. ;)

"You can't fix stupid"!