James Eagan Holmes

[bullets13]

Reading is Fundamental. Where did I say I wanted justification for people to run from the Cops? Doesn't matter if what happened to me & friends 100 yrs ago, it wasn't right. I never said I was offended as an Adult by why we were stopped. You are the Guy I speak of who just doesn't get it. Your comprehension is limited at Best. Read my statements again & maybe we can have a Discussion. We don't have to agree, but we must be able to read & comprehend. Geez!

you type a lengthy post trying to "shed some light on this topic through your experiences with the police", but don't state what "this topic" is. now the thread was going in the direction of some folks trying to once again act like police are going open season on blacks, while giving whites the benefit of the doubt when it came to using force, with tvc giving several numbers stating otherwise, and one guy providing a SINGLE case that didn't even prove his point. At this point, you jump in with a narrative from 35 years ago about how you were treated badly by a couple of cops, when you were a juvenile running around in the middle of the night. Now, by your own words, this story should've shed some light on the issue we were debating (which was about running from the cops and use of force by cops), but your story was set in 1980 or so Port Arthur, didn't involve running from the cops OR a use of force. So if I misinterpreted the point you were trying to make there, I apologize, but you sort of strayed from what we were talking about and left us to try and interpret your meaning. At the end you FINALLY address the issue at hand, saying a few things that made sense. But the overall feel of the post was that when blacks resist cops and are killed, you still feel it's the cops fault. Sorry if I'm reading that wrong, but I don't know how else to interpret a story attempting to prove how crappy cops are.

[Bigcam2903]

It's hard to interpret what you don't Comprehend. I never said any of what you typed Sir. Do this Fella: Continue with the Coloring Books and leave the Painting to Picasao

[Bigcam2903]

Picasso

[thetragichippy]

I'll call it what it is Hippy, do what you must.
You're All about Law, what Law were we Breaking? We were just hanging out, no crime committed. Doesn't matter the age or time, but because you don't agree that we should be out, does that make us criminals. This is the insinuations that perpetuate the Injustices I speak of. I have no problem with the cops stopping us, but the Bull@&$& reason& treatment is where I draw the line. I don't allow my Sons to walk the neighborhood at that time of night, especially in these times & near people with your perception.
So, I ask again, what Law were we breaking merely a few blocks from our Homes in a neighborhood everyone knew us?? TVC you care to enlighten either Hippy or me??

 

 

Ok.....so, you claim it is not about race, but tell Steven he only see's through white lens and then post about black injustice......I'll just leave that right there......

 

So, what law were you breaking? Hopefully the same laws that TVC and Bullets was breaking when they were stopped by the police.....none, but it happens to white and black people. 

 

If the cops talked bad to you, that was not right.....just like you calling Steven an idiot.....not right, but not illegal. The reason they talked to you was because you were kids walking around in the middle of the night.  If I caught my kid walking our neighborhood at 11pm at night, I would assume he was up to no good. TVC, correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think it is illegal for a cop to ask anyone walking down the street what they are doing......

 

For the record, people with my perception are law abiding people raising kids to be responsible adults. People with my perception would question why any kids would be allowed to wonder around at 11pm. It is not illegal for my son to ride his bike down the highway.....but let me catch him doing it and see if I don't flip out.

[bullets13]

It's hard to interpret what you don't Comprehend. I never said any of what you typed Sir. Do this Fella: Continue with the Coloring Books and leave the Painting to Picasao

Since I'm so incredibly dense, please explain what some cops stopping you and treating you rudely 30 years ago before letting you go on your way has to do with people getting killed today while resisting arrest. Because you're right, I don't comprehend your point.

[77]

Hell I been hassled by cops years ago also so it sometimes happens get over it ,its the victim mentality that Yobama, Holder and Sharpton keep preaching sure there are bad cops but there are a lot more outlaws than bad cops and if you fight the cops you usually lose! 

[Bigcam2903]

If any of you Homers could read and comprehend, Again I never complained, I just made a statement. Hippy you are a real price of work, I never said the cops were wrong for stopping us. I was upset as a kid, but realize what position I put myself in as an adult. Never once did I scream victim. Many of you are quick to dissect my post (the black guy) but never chimed in on the inaccuracies of others. I clearly stated what happened to me as a youth & it's clearly botched up by Grumpy, Sleep & Dopey.
77 you clearly have a problem with your spelling. Did you mean "Yo Mama"? Was 77's comment a clear insult to our President Mr I know the law Hippy? If anyone under our Law deserves respect & honor, certainly it should be our Commander.
Right 'OL Hippy? You Pulitzer Prize Wieners are Hilarious

[bullets13]

The only reason I made reference in my response to race at all was because you brought it up. I can't speak for anyone else. Based on your comments, i honestly think you have me confused with someone else, because I don't recall ever being on the opposite side of an argument with you here before, in this forum or elsewhere.

[Bigcam2903]

You may have known my race, I never said the race if the officers. Again we agree to disagree, but there's dialogue which is needed. Many don't see it, I've been as fair as possible with my statements, but the only person getting Flack is me. When will someone question things of what some of you said? I clearly denounced some things & even commended TVC for service, but yet some feel I'm bashing cops & playing a Victim. Lol
Yet have the nerve to get upset when I ask them to just be competent. Bwahaaaaa! If you guys only knew how much my side hurts from laughter.
It's cool Fellas, I ain't mad, just know if you're gonna play music; be prepared to dance with
BigCam

[tvc184]

.............. So, I ask again, what Law were we breaking merely a few blocks from our Homes in a neighborhood everyone knew us?? TVC you care to enlighten either Hippy or me??

 

I cannot answer for what someone did almost 40 years ago. I was going through some old Port Arthur records and saw where my uncle was arrested for "suspicion". It was just that, suspicion.  At one time that was legal. In the 1979 case of Brown v. Texas the Supreme Court threw out such "mere suspicion" detentions. This is the direct testimony from that particular case as given by one officer..... because the guy "looked suspicious and we had never seen that subject in that area before."

 

Prior to that case in 1979 an officer could stop you because you merely looked suspicious to him and it was lawful. That is no longer the case. Today you need reasonable suspicion and if an arrest is made, the officer has to complete a probable cause affidavit which is a sworn document. Of course the officer can lie just like anyone else but he has to swear to it at the time of the arrest and on a notarized document. If you can show that he lied, he will be fired and have charges filed on him and yes it does happen but it is very rare in my opinion, especially where more than one officer is involved. I don't want to go to prison for something another guy did and neither does any other officer that I know. 

 

With today's standard of reasonable suspicion, you do not have to have committed any crime to be lawfully detained. You are not convicted of a crime until you have been charged and pleaded guilty or have been found guilty in a trial.

 

An example which actually happens in the area of reasonable suspicion, let's say an officer on patrol sees a guy coming out from a dark alley behind a closed business at 3:00AM. It is reasonable to believe that at that the officer might be witnessing a burglary that is in progress or that may have just happened? I would say yes and the courts will probably back me up. In fact I think a majority of the public will say that it is definitely suspicious but we really can't prove that a crime has even been committed at that point, much less if that guy in the alley is the one that did it. An officer has the lawful authority at that time for a detention based on his observations. What has happened many times is that it is the business owner checking on his own business or working late. Just because he has a perfectly legal right to be there, he can still be lawfully detain. I can't tell you how many times we have responded to crime scenes with someone breaking into a home only to find out it was the homeowner that was drunk and accidentally locked himself out and was breaking into his own home. Of course the neighbor that called and the police do not know that until they detain the guy and look into it. 

 

If someone flees from a lawful detention, it is a crime even if the person had not actually committed any crime when the officer tried to detain him. In fact another Supreme Court case, Illinois v. Wardlow they said that fleeing from an officer, with no other suspicion, is in itself reasonable suspicion. 

 

I hear people often say, "the police can't do that". Well, in most cases yes they can as upheld many times by the Supreme Court. You can contest it later in a trial if you are charged and you can get you a lawyer and sue if you think your rights were violated. Fleeing, resisting, hindering and interfering are crimes that people sometimes commit even when no other crime had been committed until after the police detention. 

 

Complying with the lawful authority of the police ends about 99.9% of violent encounters. I can't speak of what another officer did 40 years ago or even today for that matter. Simply making the claim of, "we did nothing illegal" does not stop a lawful detention. I had done nothing illegal either when I was actually brought to the police station. Had I run or resisted even though I committed no crime prior, I likely would not have liked the results. 

[tvc184]

You may have known my race, I never said the race if the officers. Again we agree to disagree, but there's dialogue which is needed. Many don't see it, I've been as fair as possible with my statements, but the only person getting Flack is me. When will someone question things of what some of you said? I clearly denounced some things & even commended TVC for service, but yet some feel I'm bashing cops & playing a Victim. Lol
Yet have the nerve to get upset when I ask them to just be competent. Bwahaaaaa! If you guys only knew how much my side hurts from laughter.
It's cool Fellas, I ain't mad, just know if you're gonna play music; be prepared to dance with
BigCam

 

 

I don't. I think you are merely relating truthful life experiences and I can guarantee that back then it was different on the west side of PA than on the east side of PA. That is history. 

[Bigcam2903]

Very true. TVC, looking back at what happened to us however long ago, I harbor no hatred for Cops. We put ourselves in a compromising situation. We didn't see that then,but I certainly wouldn't allow my kids to be out just loitering. I could have reason to be bitter, but that's not how I was raised. Our lives are short, so my Light will Shine Bright as long as God sees fit.

[Big girl]

I am talking about the man carrying a toy gun that he picked up at Wal-Mart while shopping. Are you guys telling me if I go to Wal-Mart to buy a toy gun for my cousin, I am in danger of being executed and it is ok.

[Big girl]

Big girl does not possess the ability to put herself in the cop's position. All she sees is color which makes her a racist. She is not worth arguing against.

Funny how she is the only one on that side of the law. Must be that she is right?........WRONG!

Holmes is a weirdo and was not armed when approached, as evidenced by TVC. What don't you understand about that?

GEORGE ZIMMERMAN IS HISPANIC! Look at his pics and tell me different. You want him to be white. That is all you are about. Tired of hearing your crap. Grow up!

I dont care what color he is. He resisted arrest and should be dead according to some of you(by the way, Hispanic is an ethnicity not a race)

[SKINS]

I am talking about the man carrying a toy gun that he picked up at Wal-Mart while shopping. Are you guys telling me if I go to Wal-Mart to buy a toy gun for my cousin, I am in danger of being executed and it is ok.

No.

But if you are carrying it in a way that someone calls the police you have the possibility of being shot.

[PAMFAM10]

I could easily hate alot of cops from my experiences I can easily hate alot of white people from my experiences I could easily hate blacks from my experiences etc.so on. Any large group of people will have dummies or whatever you wanna call them. Never let a few destroy the your perception of a group. If I say I believe this cop was in the wrong or that guy in the wrong I only say it because I truly believe it. Growing up on the Westside of Port Arthur. I've had many encounters with police. Not all were bad and not all bad were white. I think incidents like these would be less if kids were being raised and following the rules. I also think incidents like these would be less if cops are trained right and followed the rules.

[Mr. Buddy Garrity]

I could easily hate alot of cops from my experiences I can easily hate alot of white people from my experiences I could easily hate blacks from my experiences etc.so on. Any large group of people will have dummies or whatever you wanna call them. Never let a few destroy the your perception of a group. If I say I believe this cop was in the wrong or that guy in the wrong I only say it because I truly believe it. Growing up on the Westside of Port Arthur. I've had many encounters with police. Not all were bad and not all bad were white. I think incidents like these would be less if kids were being raised and following the rules. I also think incidents like these would be less if cops are trained right and followed the rules.

Its alot of folks I know in law enforcement that have specifically told me they're in it because of the power it gives them. I dont wish those type of folks any luck in life. Its pathetic. 

[Big girl]

No.

But if you are carrying it in a way that someone calls the police you have the possibility of being shot.

how was he carrying it.

[CraigS]

how was he carrying it.

in a way that got the police called. ... and a way that got him killed. ...

[tvc184]

how was he carrying it.

He was pointing it around corners like he was using grocery aisles for cover and waving it around. He was doing so while standing in one location. It wasn't like he was shopping and going about his business like a normal shopper. All of that can be seen on the store video.

Waving a gun around in the public is not conducive to a good outcome whether the gun is real or not.

Let's say that in that situation the guy was never shot by the police. Let's say that they pointed their guns at him just in case but recognized at the last second that it was a toy. Or maybe he saw them coming and put it down. The fact that the police have to come in with guns drawn because citizens are calling the police is an indication that you were doing something that probably is not wise.

[bullets13]

how was he carrying it.

You can find the video online. He was acting crazy carrying what appeared to be a real gun, moving around in a manner that made it appear that he was prepared to use said gun. When police approached, and yelled at him, instead of dropping the gun he turned towards them, bringing the gun around towards them as well. This most likely was simply a result of him turning towards them, but any police officer faced with a situation where someone appearing to be carrying a semi-auto rifle turns the gun towards them is going to shoot them. It doesn't matter if they're black, white, or green. The bullets that might be flying at officers would kill them just the same, regardless of the color of the finger pulling the trigger.

[bullets13]

He was pointing it around corners like he was using grocery aisles for cover and waving it around. He was doing so while standing in one location. It wasn't like he was shopping and going about his business like a normal shopper. All of that can be seen on the store video.

Waving a gun around in the public is not conducive to a good outcome whether the gun is real or not.

Let's say that in that situation the guy was never shot by the police. Let's say that they pointed their guns at him just in case but recognized at the last second that it was a toy. Or maybe he saw them coming and put it down. The fact that the police have to come in with guns drawn because citizens are calling the police is an indication that you were doing something that probably is not wise.

that's another thing that activists forget as well.  you would think based on the accusations of some that police are just running wild looking for someone to shoot.  the truth is that in most of these cases a citizen saw some alarming behavior that led them to call for help, and when help arrived, and the alarming behavior did not cease, police simply did what they felt they needed to do to survive.  if a reasonable citizen calls in with a reasonable fear about someone who appears to be carrying a gun in a threatening manner, it is UNreasonable to expect police to approach that person with the thought of putting the safety of the person who is carrying a gun before their own.

[thetragichippy]

There may be a time when it is unsafe to buy a toy gun. I have read at least 3 articles about gang members painting the tips of their REAL guns orange so it looks like a toy. This way cops may hesitate and give the thug an advantage to get off the first shot.........

 

But I'm sure people will blame the cops instead of the thugs

[tvc184]

Unfortunately (or fortunately in many issues) this is not 1965 where we could bring cap guns to school and play cowboys and Indians or cops and robbers on the playground at recess and it was thought of as healthy play time. 

 

Back then we did not have to worry about nor could we likely have conceived an issue with gang violence, carjacking, home invasion robberies, drive by shootings or mass school shooting perpetrated by children. 

 

What we could not in our wildest dreams think of in 1965 is a reality today. That is the world we live in. We need to teach children and everyone else that if you are in a location that it is likely dangerous to wave a real gun around, it is probably not a good idea to wave a real looking toy or BB/paint ball/airsoft gun around. 

[Mr. Buddy Garrity]

@NOLAnews: Colorado theater shooting case draws largest jury pool in U.S. history http://bit.ly/1J7xJLx