Baltimore in deep ish

[tvc184]

So if someone is breaking into my business I can't shoot them? How is that different than tour residence?

 

You are reading something into my statement that I did not say. I never said anything about the use of deadly force to stop burglary, robbery, sexual assault or arson. 

 

I responded to "looting" which is theft. I also responded to criminal mischief which is vandalism or destruction of property. 

 

Laws are very specific on the names of crimes. 

 

TX is one of the few states (or maybe only) that allows the use of deadly force to stop certain property crimes, some of which may be misdemeanors. That is different than laws that allow the use of deadly force to protect life. 

 

If you have a specific question I will try to answer it but I will stick with my previous statement that said "there is no blanket law allowing the shooting of looters in this state". 

 

When you see someone say, "you can shoot looters", that just isn't true. You can throw "what ifs" into some scenarios that can make it lawful to use deadly force. Simply saying "looters" or "stealing" or "damaging" or "trespassing" won't do it. 

[tvc184]

Tvc, what is bending? I read that the cops did that to him

 

"Bending" is just the Webster dictionary definition of the word. If someone said the officers were bending him, that is just a description of what was happening like they were bending him over backwards. They could probably have said "twisting" him. 

 

I am guessing that you read something like, they were bending him while putting him in the wagon. In almost 32 years I have never heard of any police procedure or use of force (lawful or otherwise) that used any term like bending. 

[tvc184]

Really???? That is not what i read. He did run and he was arrested for having a switch blade,but i didnt read anything about him commiting a crime. What was he caught doing?

 

Maryland law makes it a crime to carry a concealed switchblade. 

 

Maryland law is a little more confusing to me or as compared to TX law. Running from the police is in TX, Evading Detention but I think in Maryland it goes under the heading of Resisting Arrest or Detention from what I read. 

 

Assuming he ran from the police, that alone would be a crime. Comparing it to TX law, if an officer tells you to stop and you flee, you have committed a crime. 

 

State laws are one thing but the question then sometimes goes to the US Supreme Court to rule on laws and their constitutionality. As to this situation, the USSC ruled in Wardlow v. Illinois in 2000 that "headlong flight" from the police alone is enough to chase and detain the person regardless of any other evidence or information. 

 

That does not necessarily justify an arrest or detention under Maryland law since I am not familiar with their law or with any evidence that the police had. I can say that in TX, if a person flees at the sight of the police and the officer tells the person to stop and he does not, it is the crime of Evading Detention. 

 

I am not defending the officers' actions whether in the initial detention or the force used after it but when you ask about a law that may have been violated, I wanted to point out that the USSC says that fleeing from officers by itself is a valid reason to stop or detain someone. 

[tvc184]

I look at it the same way as someone entering my house or coming onto my property.....meet the bullet

 

If you shoot someone for coming onto your property (trespassing), you'd better have lots of money and a very good lawyer on speed dial. 

 

It may not help in the final outcome which can be life in prison but at least it will give you a fair trial. 

[dayton]

I'm just getting up to date on this one....

 

I keep reading that the officers made eye contact with Gray and his friend, then they ran. Has anyone given any insight into why that happened? Admittedly, i haven't clicked every link on the thread.

[mat]

for real tho. People are blaming the victim. Smh

People are defending rioters who are destroying a city because of the death of a local low level drug dealing thug with 18 arrest, 6 in the last four months. Don't misunderstand me, i'm not saying he should have died. If the police were at fault then they should be held accountable but don't ruin your own community.  

[PhatMack19]

You are reading something into my statement that I did not say. I never said anything about the use of deadly force to stop burglary, robbery, sexual assault or arson.

I responded to "looting" which is theft. I also responded to criminal mischief which is vandalism or destruction of property.

Laws are very specific on the names of crimes.

TX is one of the few states (or maybe only) that allows the use of deadly force to stop certain property crimes, some of which may be misdemeanors. That is different than laws that allow the use of deadly force to protect life.

If you have a specific question I will try to answer it but I will stick with my previous statement that said "there is no blanket law allowing the shooting of looters in this state".

When you see someone say, "you can shoot looters", that just isn't true. You can throw "what ifs" into some scenarios that can make it lawful to use deadly force. Simply saying "looters" or "stealing" or "damaging" or "trespassing" won't do it.

Let me rephrase. If I own a business that rioters are trying to loot and destroy, can I get all of my guns, pull up a chair and start shooting as they enter my property? I figure I would only have to shoot a couple of them before they figured out they might not want to mess with the business that I spent my life building.

[jv_coach]

@MartinoNYDN: L.A. riots, which resulted in cancellation of Dodgers/Phillies games began on April 29, 1992 -- 23 yrs to the day before tmrw's Orioles game

 

 

 

 

So eerie & strange how history repeats itself. 

So do we see "Reds" and "Brown Shirts" stirring things up today? 

[thetragichippy]

Bottom line is this dude became a victim because of his own actions......

 

He apparently made a living dealing drugs.....That is a pretty risky profession and there is a good chance that you will end up dead......typically by other drug dealers.....This time it was because of something I hope we will soon find out.

 

Does anyone take into consideration the other side? What about the risk he put the officers in having to chase him?

[jv_coach]

People are defending rioters who are destroying a city because of the death of a local low level drug dealing thug with 18 arrest, 6 in the last four months. Don't misunderstand me, i'm not saying he should have died. If the police were at fault then they should be held accountable but don't ruin your own community.  

Don't ruin any community! BTW I agree with your post.

[PhatMack19]

The Orioles game is going on now with zero fans in attendance. It's weird that you can hear the players talking over the announcers.

[Mr. Buddy Garrity]

@msnbc: Fmr. Baltimore police officer: If Martin O'Malley comes back, "you may see a riot' http://on.msnbc.com/1GFU8k2

 

 

 

Video is about 5mins long. 

[tvc184]

Let me rephrase. If I own a business that rioters are trying to loot and destroy, can I get all of my guns, pull up a chair and start shooting as they enter my property? I figure I would only have to shoot a couple of them before they figured out they might not want to mess with the business that I spent my life building.

Under TX law, if someone enters your business without consent with the intent to commit theft, it is burglary.

TX law allows the use of deadly force to defend against burglary IF (as determined by a grand jury and if indicted, a criminal jury) it was reasonable that a person in your position could not protect the property by other means or that to do so would expose you to serious bodily injury.

If a single unarmed person comes in and is not visibly armed, I think you might have a hard time shooting someone and claiming it was reasonably necessary. If the person is obviously larger, more physically fit, armed or there is more than one, I think a TX grand jury or criminal jury would be very sympathetic to your claim of necessary force.

In my opinion.

[BlackShirts5]

Can we just make Texas our own country now.  Please.

[PhatMack19]

Under TX law, if someone enters your business without consent with the intent to commit theft, it is burglary.

TX law allows the use of deadly force to defend against burglary IF (as determined by a grand jury and if indicted, a criminal jury) it was reasonable that a person in your position could not protect the property by other means or that to do so would expose you to serious bodily injury.

If a single unarmed person comes in and is not visibly armed, I think you might have a hard time shooting someone and claiming it was reasonably necessary. If the person is obviously larger, more physically fit, armed or there is more than one, I think a TX grand jury or criminal jury would be very sympathetic to your claim of necessary force.

In my opinion.

I'm just wondering. I get robbed about once a week(twice so far this week and it's only Wednesday) and it's getting old. I may need to start shooting people. I wish people would just get a job and leave my stuff alone.

[tvc184]

I'm just wondering. I get robbed about once a week(twice so far this week and it's only Wednesday) and it's getting old. I may need to start shooting people. I wish people would just get a job and leave my stuff alone.

 

That is what I am talking about in the wording of the law and it being specific.

 

Robbery is a crime of violence. It is someone pulling a gun or knife on you and demanding money or causing you injury. That is not a property crime such a burglary (called breaking and entering in some states) and theft which is just stealing something. 

 

TX law allows the use of deadly force to stop a robbery. 

 

Did someone steal something from you (theft), enter into a home or business (burglary) or pull a weapon on you and demand money?

[77]

Shoot the ones that are armed and baseball bat the ones unarmed and if your not sure do both. That should slow down the robberies.

[77]

Example of another liar in charge that will not be held responsible for her words and actions!

http://www.caintv.com/baltimore-mayor-i-never-said-w

[baddog]

Example of another liar in charge that will not be held responsible for her words and actions!
http://www.caintv.com/baltimore-mayor-i-never-said-w

Took a page straight out of the Clinton's "generic answers" book.

[bullets13]

So Baltimore is 5th in the country in murder rates, and had 235 murders last year. Now three street gangs, likely responsible for a sizable portion of those murders, have united to ask for justice for this guy and trying to convince people to not be violent in their protests. I appreciate the sentiment, I suppose, but really?

[Mr. Buddy Garrity]

So Baltimore is 5th in the country in murder rates, and had 235 murders last year. Now three street gangs, likely responsible for a sizable portion of those murders, have united to ask for justice for this guy and trying to convince people to not be violent in their protests. I appreciate the sentiment, I suppose, but really?

Its intruiging how incidents like this "bring people together" or "tear em apart". 

[Mr. Buddy Garrity]

@VibeMagazine: Watch as this Baltimore resident confronts @GeraldoRivera: http://on.vibe.com/1FyRez5 http://twitter.com/VibeMagazine/status/593573240565403648/photo/1

 

 

Smh, hell might as well have Sharpton and Jesse there too, all 3 the same to me. 

[5GallonBucket]

after all those arrests and never had a spinal injury maybe that says something.....like an ACCIDENT.

[5GallonBucket]

TVC...I meant coming onto my property holding a weapon.

[5GallonBucket]

goes to show you don't know the law Big Girl.....and your still defending a criminal like usual.  says a lot about you.   if you run your breaking the law.  IF he didn't run he'd probably still be alive....funny isn't it.