Sandra Bland/Waller County

[Hagar]

As I went thru this again, the post I made above, while pretty complete, didn't mention the biggest shame of all.  It's a crying shame she didn't just take her ticket, like 99% of people do, and all the rest never happened. IMO the media has glorified being belligerent towards the Police.  SMH

[Mr. Buddy Garrity]

@ABC: New footage shows the moment a jailer first discovered #SandraBland's dead body:

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[HurricaneCal]

This is another instance where everyone should wait for the results of the investigation.  It's easy to jump to conclusions especially when you don't know all of the details.  I would also say a third independent source should always do the investigating as well.  

[BLUEDOVE3]

Wonder where the POTUS has been,  no word on this yet from him?

​Why would you expect him to say anything?

[BLUEDOVE3]

Her being excited about her near future might be seen as a reason to believe that it was not suicide but it is also a reason for suicide. That is particularly true if it was a person with no criminal record and being in jail for a felony.

A person that worked to get to a point in life and then have it crashing down, potentially with no future (due to felony record and possible prison time), is a prime candidate to end it all.

It really doesn't mean anything one way or the other but people will be quick to point out that it could not be suicide due to a bright future but that can be just the opposite. I know in some jail interviews/screenings they ask questions about standing in the community, prior record, future plants, etc., to determine suicide risk. The same reason that some people will draw the conclusion that it could not be suicide can be the reason for suicide. 

This will likely be an autopsy case. The cause of death as proven by the autopsy will go a long way into proving the case and not suspicion or innuendo. Hopefully the area around the cell had video. 

​Some good points made.

[Mr. Buddy Garrity]

I have a question: can you get fingerprints off of a trash bag? 

[BLUEDOVE3]

This is usually how these things go.  Don't follow police orders, become belligerent and combative, get arrested and blame it on the cops. As I've said before, do what the hell you're told by the cops and the majority of these incidences would not end like this.  But once again, it will be the cops fault that this woman is dead.

​Still doesn't give a cop the right to go beyond the call of duty just because an individual asks why or whats going on.

[BLUEDOVE3]

Wonder why the "community activists" and protesters can't seem to see it you're way?  Has to get made a big deal because it happened after she was arrested.

​Its because of the history of police in our communities and the things they get away with against poor people. I asked a cop once why was speaking to me so rude after a minor offense. Luckily a nice Hispanic copp was there to settle her down. She acted as if she had a chip on her shoulder. Both sides have a tendency to put each other in a box.

[BLUEDOVE3]

I have a question: can you get fingerprints off of a trash bag? 

​Can men fly to the moon?

[BLUEDOVE3]

This is another instance where everyone should wait for the results of the investigation.  It's easy to jump to conclusions especially when you don't know all of the details.  I would also say a third independent source should always do the investigating as well.  

​Completely agree.

[tvc184]

I have a question: can you get fingerprints off of a trash bag? 

​Technically? Yes.

Likely? Not so much. Crumpled up bags or any textured surface (whether natural or from crumpling) will really mess up the chance for prints. 

Here is the issue with prints in this case. I am sure that the trash bag did not magically appear in her cell. That means an officer or someone else had to put it there... which is probably routine. So what if an officer's (or maybe a janitor's, etc.) prints are on the bag? It proves that someone touched the bag other than the inmate which is probably about 99.99% likely. You could even have a case where a janitor or two touched the bag as they were handing them out, an officer picked up that bag and gave it to the inmate so we might have several sets of prints or DNA on the bag. 

Does that prove anything other than at some point in time, a person touched the bag? 

Fingerprints or DNA many times has no bearing. Let's say your car got broken into while in a mall parking lot. The officer gets fingerprints on the outside of the vehicle. That means that a person touched the vehicle but maybe 100 people could have walked by your car and any one of them could have touched it. It proves nothing except that the person touched the vehicle. In fact for all we know, that fingerprint could have been there from yesterday at an entirely different location. Now if a person's fingerprint is found inside of your vehicle and that person has never legally been in your car, then it means something. 

Fingerprints and DNA can be great but merely finding them might not prove anything. Ponder this, in the last week, what have you touched or might have touched while in the public including store counters, doors, cars, objects in a store, etc. Your fingerprints and DNA are likely all over the county. What does it prove?

Edited July 21, 2015 by tvc184

[Mr. Buddy Garrity]

​Technically? Yes.

Likely? Not so much. Crumpled up bags or any textured surface (whether natural or from crumpling) will really mess up the chance for prints. 

Here is the issue with prints in this case. I am sure that the trash bag did not magically appear in her cell. That means an officer or someone else had to put it there... which is probably routine. So what if an officer's (or maybe a janitor's, etc.) prints are on the bag? It proves that someone touched the bag other than the inmate which is probably about 99.99% likely. You could even have a case where a janitor or two touched the bag as they were handing them out, an officer picked up that bag and gave it to the inmate so we might have several sets of prints or DNA on the bag. 

Does that prove anything other than at some point in time, a person touched the bag? 

Fingerprints or DNA many times has no bearing. Let's say your car got broken into while in a mall parking lot. The officer gets fingerprints on the outside of the vehicle. That means that a person touched the vehicle but maybe 100 people could have walked by your car and any one of them could have touched it. It proves nothing except that the person touched the vehicle. In fact for all we know, that fingerprint could have been there from yesterday at an entirely different location. Now if a person's fingerprint is found inside of your vehicle and that person has never legally been in your car, then it means something. 

Fingerprints and DNA can be great but merely finding them might not prove anything. Ponder this, in the last week, what have you touched or might have touched while in the public including store counters, doors, cars, objects in a store, etc. Your fingerprints and DNA are likely all over the county. What does it prove?

​thx, didnt know why the DA brought up trying to get prints lifted off the bag yesterday. 

[tvc184]

​thx, didnt know why the DA brought up trying to get prints lifted off the bag yesterday. 

​So that the people will know that he is "doing everything possible".  

It was said also that he was handling it like a homicide investigation. All deaths are or should be taken as a possible homicide. Even locally we do hundreds of autopsies each year that turn out to be natural causes, accidents or suicides. 

Again, fingerprints might be of value if the person they lead to has no legitimate reason for the prints to be there. What if there was not supposed to be a trash bag in that cell? What if they come back to a secretary who has no valid reason for the prints to be anywhere near that bag?

Just finding prints though will show nothing if it was a worker that could have legitimately handled the trash bag. I am sure that if you pulled bags out of every cell you might find a multitude of fingerprints. I have the feeling that no usable fingerprints will be found on that bag and if so, will prove nothing. How about the officer that found her and maybe removed that bag? How many EMS people might have handled the bag? 

Fingerprints are a very long shot at either being obtained or being of useful value but they have to do it just in case and to show that nothing was being left undone. To do less would lead to more accusations. 

[Hagar]

Thx tvc, that was interesting, and educational.  Most of us "learn" what we know from CSI, which is entertaining, but probably not always accurate.   

[BS Wildcats]

 

 I honestly think that some people hope  that she was murdered.  A suicide is just a tragedy. A murder is a call to arms and a cause. 

Beside the death of a woman, the other tragedy is the family having to believe that she was wrongfully killed and likely not ever accepting the fact that she may have taken her own life.  Even if after a thorough investigation by the FBI and the Texas Rangers shows evidence conclusively that she was a victim of suicide, the family will still probably not accept it because they have been filled with distrust. 

It's funny that the person that gets arrested has no culpability in their getting arrested.  It seems that ppl are instantly placing blame on the police. Same old song and dance.  

[tvc184]

Thx tvc, that was interesting, and educational.  Most of us "learn" what we know from CSI, which is entertaining, but probably not always accurate.   

​It is not so much inaccurate scientifically as it is not telling the entire story sometimes. 

We can get DNA off of almost anything. First you have to have a suspect to compare it to or hope that the suspect has had a reason to have his DNA put into a database. Out of the 300 million plus people in the USA, how many have DNA in a law enforcement database?

Now if a person witnesses a crime and identifies a suspect by name (I saw Bob  who I went to high school with), that can be used to get a warrant for DNA and that can be compared to evidence found at a crime scene. Merely gathering fingerprints, DNA, etc., even if it could prove a crime does not always lead to a suspect or maybe to one many years later (like happened at my agency a few months ago). 

[tvc184]

In a lot of television shows, I am sure that it is convenient that most times the prints, DNA, shell cases, etc., from a scene just happen to be in one of the FBI databases. 

CODIS for DNA

AFIS for fingerprints

NIBIN for ballistics 

NCIS for all kinds of stuff like criminal history, stolen items, wanted items for major crimes, etc. 

[HurricaneCal]

After watching the dash cam video my thoughts are this:

1. She was rude as heck during the entire traffic stop.

2. That policeman just seemed to be out looking for the smallest of infractions to pull people over in my opinion for it to lead to something larger.  (Boy did it ever) looked like he was at or near Prarie View A&M so was he profiling? Liked to see who all he pulled over during his shift.

3. He seemed to escalate the situation himself.

4. It's really sad that a violation that was going to be a warning ended up with a woman dead in a jail cell.  Who knows, whether or not this would've happened if she weren't there, but she didn't need to be there.

5. Still a lot of stones to turn over in this case.

 

[thetragichippy]

After watching the dash cam video my thoughts are this:

1. She was rude as heck during the entire traffic stop.

2. That policeman just seemed to be out looking for the smallest of infractions to pull people over in my opinion for it to lead to something larger.  (Boy did it ever) looked like he was at or near Prarie View A&M so was he profiling? Liked to see who all he pulled over during his shift.

3. He seemed to escalate the situation himself.

4. It's really sad that a violation that was going to be a warning ended up with a woman dead in a jail cell.  Who knows, whether or not this would've happened if she weren't there, but she didn't need to be there.

5. Still a lot of stones to turn over in this case.

 

​I disagree.....

He was nice at first and she had an attitude and was rude which set him off. He asked her to put out her cigarette and step out of the car and she at first refused. In my opinion, she deserved to go to jail.......

Just so you don't think I'm one sided......If that was my Son in that video and he acted like that to a cop, I would let him sit a couple days in jail before I bailed him out. I probably would not have minded a little taser action to teach him a lesson. This country is going down fast, and this lack of respect for officers needs to end. Officers are people and are not perfect, nor can they read minds. This could of ended up much worse than it did, and I mean the traffic stop. Her committing suicide to me is a separate issue.

  

[HurricaneCal]

​I disagree.....

He was nice at first and she had an attitude and was rude which set him off. He asked her to put out her cigarette and step out of the car and she at first refused. In my opinion, she deserved to go to jail.......

Just so you don't think I'm one sided......If that was my Son in that video and he acted like that to a cop, I would let him sit a couple days in jail before I bailed him out. I probably would not have minded a little taser action to teach him a lesson. This country is going down fast, and this lack of respect for officers needs to end. Officers are people and are not perfect, nor can they read minds. This could of ended up much worse than it did, and I mean the traffic stop. Her committing suicide to me is a separate issue.

  

She was definitely looking for somewhat of a confrontation in my opinion, but the stop was over.  He didn't have to continue in my opinion.  When I've gotten pulled over, I say yes sir and no sir, but I haven't been having a bad day or frustrated at something else.  God I hope I'm not if getting pulled out of the car like that is part of it.  

[HurricaneCal]

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[HurricaneCal]

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Why is there a 60 gallon trash bag in the holding cell?

[stevenash]

​Still doesn't give a cop the right to go beyond the call of duty just because an individual asks why or whats going on.

​Dove, I have watched the recording and listened to the exchange between the two of them.  I believe the Medical examiner has declared it a suicide.

[HurricaneCal]

Watching the video I thought it was interesting that when she was pulled from the car they ended up just out of camera view.  I'm interested to see if the autopsy reveals any head trauma she may have suffered from getting taken down.

[thetragichippy]

She was definitely looking for somewhat of a confrontation in my opinion, but the stop was over.  He didn't have to continue in my opinion.  When I've gotten pulled over, I say yes sir and no sir, but I haven't been having a bad day or frustrated at something else.  God I hope I'm not if getting pulled out of the car like that is part of it.  

​ I agree the officer lost his temper and that was wrong.....but I still say "yes sir" and "no sir" when I'm pulled over. I admit it is getting harder to do being 49 and getting pulled over by a 25 year old kid........