Sam Dubose/Cincinnati

[tvc184]

I was going to ask you....could you make any sense of the video?

Not really but only using my phone. The last officer killed in the line of duty in PA was a game warden. He reached into a car similar to that video and was grabbed and drug away and then run over. I have no problem with using deadly force in such a situation. 

Whether reaching for someone in a car is smart or not is not even part of the mix. It is lawful and from that standpoint, all that matters. 

 I did not see the offense report on what the officer's claims were.  If he said something like he was drug for 40 feet then it appears as though he was falsifying information.  If he said only something like he was being dragged then he might have been telling the truth or at least from his perspective. 

In Graham v. Connor the SCOTUS said that  you need to look through the eyes of the officer that had to make a "split second" decision.  When you go through that much of an adrenaline dump and that much stress, the time factor in your mind is out of whack.  We had an officer involved shooting and I was about three blocks away when it happened. One of the officers said that he thought that he had fired two rounds. I think we found seven of his shell casings at the scene.  Did he lie on what was a justified shooting or was he is mine filled with so much adrenaline and the fight or flight impulse that he only remembers pulling the trigger?

 The officer in this video was completely calm. He was at no time abusive and did not do anything even like the trooper in the Sandra Bland case.  Was he really looking to murder someone that day?  From my experience the driver and the video was being very evasive  and an experienced officer would perceive that almost immediately. At that point they are in a heightened state of alert expecting a possible deadly force encounter because they do not know why the guy is being evasive. 

 It looked like the officer tried to reach in but the guy sped away and you could hear the engine rev up as he sped away.  In a very short time frame the officer fired a single shot.   Did he believe that he was in danger in that one second? Was he actually in danger? Did he reach in and start to get pulled away? 

I have no clue but I can easily see something less than murder all the way to exoneration. Now if the officer made up a bunch of stuff then he is probably done. I think that if you could have read the officer's mind two seconds before the shot being fired, you might find that he had no idea that he was about to shoot. 

In the only round that I have ever fired on duty, I had no clue that I was going to pull the trigger until the moment it happened.  

[thetragichippy]

Not really but only using my phone. The last officer killed in the line of duty in PA was a game warden. He reached into a car similar to that video and was grabbed and drug away and then run over. I have no problem with using deadly force in such a situation. 

Whether reaching for someone in a car is smart or not is not even part of the mix. It is lawful and from that standpoint, all that matters. 

 I did not see the offense report on what the officer's claims were.  If he said something like he was drug for 40 feet then it appears as though he was falsifying information.  If he said only something like he was being dragged then he might have been telling the truth or at least from his perspective. 

In Graham v. Connor the SCOTUS said that  you need to look through the eyes of the officer that had to make a "split second" decision.  When you go through that much of an adrenaline dump and that much stress, the time factor in your mind is out of whack.  We had an officer involved shooting and I was about three blocks away when it happened. One of the officers said that he thought that he had fired two rounds. I think we found seven of his shell casings at the scene.  Did he lie on what was a justified shooting or was he is mine filled with so much adrenaline and the fight or flight impulse that he only remembers pulling the trigger?

 The officer in this video was completely calm. He was at no time abusive and did not do anything even like the trooper in the Sandra Bland case.  Was he really looking to murder someone that day?  From my experience the driver and the video was being very evasive  and an experienced officer would perceive that almost immediately. At that point they are in a heightened state of alert expecting a possible deadly force encounter because they do not know why the guy is being evasive. 

 It looked like the officer tried to reach in but the guy sped away and you could hear the engine rev up as he sped away.  In a very short time frame the officer fired a single shot.   Did he believe that he was in danger in that one second? Was he actually in danger? Did he reach in and start to get pulled away? 

I have no clue but I can easily see something less than murder all the way to exoneration. Now if the officer made up a bunch of stuff then he is probably done. I think that if you could have read the officer's mind two seconds before the shot being fired, you might find that he had no idea that he was about to shoot. 

In the only round that I have ever fired on duty, I had no clue that I was going to pull the trigger until the moment it happened.  

​I have looked at the video several times and for me, it is not as clear as everyone is saying. I'm not saying he was right, I just can't make sense of the video. 

If I had heard nothing about what actually happened based on news reports, I don't think I could write an accurate narrative on what happened just watching this video.

Did he really hand the cop an alcoholic beverage?  

[Mr. Buddy Garrity]

​I have looked at the video several times and for me, it is not as clear as everyone is saying. I'm not saying he was right, I just can't make sense of the video. 

If I had heard nothing about what actually happened based on news reports, I don't think I could write an accurate narrative on what happened just watching this video.

Did he really hand the cop an alcoholic beverage?  

​yes, Gin, it was placed on top of the car unopened. 

[pe2009]

Is it against the law to have unopened alcohol in vehichles in Ohio?

[BLUEDOVE3]

Who are you referring to as y'all?  You have done this on several threads.

​Yall who are naive. 

[stevenash]

​Yall who are naive.

Naive?  Would that be the same as those who "bought" hope and change?

[BS Wildcats]

 

Naive?  Would that be the same as those who "bought" hope and change?

​Yall who are naive. 

This "y'all" as you say, said he should be charged with murder and given the death penalty.  Puts a little wrinkle in you definition.

[thetragichippy]

Is it against the law to have unopened alcohol in vehichles in Ohio?

No, I didn't know it was unopened.

[LumRaiderFan]

Naive?  Would that be the same as those who "bought" hope and change?

​lol...now that would definitely be naive.

[baddog]

No, I didn't know it was unopened.

You can possess an unopened bottle of booze even in dry counties. Also, if he used his vehicle as a deadly weapon, he can be fired upon. However, I did not see this and think he was killed senselessly.

[tvc184]

You can possess an unopened bottle of booze even in dry counties. Also, if he used his vehicle as a deadly weapon, he can be fired upon. However, I did not see this and think he was killed senselessly.

Are you citing Ohio law?

[baddog]

Nope, Texas.

[bullets13]

I'm with hippy on this one.  I could not tell from the video if the cop shot before or after the car started moving.  I can't speak to his frame of mind.  I do know that up until he shot, he was very respectful, showing no signs of racism or attitude, and the driver was being evasive and was clearly about to run.  I have no doubt that when he fired the officer felt like he was in danger.  The question is whether or not his feeling was justified.  I'd like to see the dashcam video from his patrol car.  If it shows the car start to move with him in the window then he's justified.  If not, I'm not sure how the law will handle it.  As for the statement the other officer made, even if this was completely unjustified, from some unknown distance he saw the officer shoot, the car start rolling, and the officer fall away from the moving vehicle in probably less than a second.  I wouldn't doubt at all that he believed what he told authorities.  The question is whether or not what he thought he saw was correct or not.  Again, I would love to see some dashcam video.

[PAMFAM10]

Its almost like we're seeing to different videos. 

[Mr. Buddy Garrity]

Its almost like we're seeing to different videos. 

​…… or seeing what eyes want to see or hope to see happen in the video. Body cam video is pretty clear to me unless there is another video that has magically surfaced. 

[thetragichippy]

Its almost like we're seeing to different videos. 

A cop, a banker and a teacher all agree that the video is hard to see and hard to figure out what happened.......

but you see it clear as day? 

 

[PAMFAM10]

The guys with the most information see it Clear as day also. I no it give credit to a problem some refuse to acknowledge exists. Just like in the other case the cam don't lie. A while ago we seen a cop lie saying someone is going for his taser why do we assume all cops are good guys when it unbelievable amount of evidence and common sense to see that not everyone with a badge should have one. Not saying all cops are bad not even saying race have something to do with it just in my opinion its as clear as day. This was a bad one him and his lying buddies. 

[Mr. Buddy Garrity]

The guys with the most information see it Clear as day also. I no it give credit to a problem some refuse to acknowledge exists. Just like in the other case the cam don't lie. A while ago we seen a cop lie saying someone is going for his taser why do we assume all cops are good guys when it unbelievable amount of evidence and common sense to see that not everyone with a badge should have one. Not saying all cops are bad not even saying race have something to do with it just in my opinion its as clear as day. This was a bad one him and his lying buddies. 

​and that particular video was clear as well, I see no issue here. 

[bullets13]

Its almost like we're seeing to different videos. 

​…… or seeing what eyes want to see or hope to see happen in the video. Body cam video is pretty clear to me unless there is another video that has magically surfaced. 

It has nothing to do with what I hope to see.  In the seconds before and after the shot is fired it looks like the body cam is going through a washing machine.  I'm having a hard time how y'all are getting a clear understanding of exactly what happened.  As TVC stated, if the car was moving and the officer was partially in the car, he was within his right to shoot.  That's why I stated that I would like to see the dashcam from his cruiser, which would likely show a much steadier view of exactly what happened.

[bullets13]

​…… or seeing what eyes want to see or hope to see happen in the video. Body cam video is pretty clear to me unless there is another video that has magically surfaced. 

 This is a pretty good description of what those who are rallying around Sandra Bland are doing, don't you think?

[Mr. Buddy Garrity]

 This is a pretty good description of what those who are rallying around Sandra Bland are doing, don't you think?

​i have seen no video of her hanging or preparing to do it. But what I did see was the footage from the guy body cam, clear as day to me. 

[PAMFAM10]

 This is a pretty good description of what those who are rallying around Sandra Bland are doing, don't you think?

 

The same can be said

[bullets13]

The guys with the most information see it Clear as day also. I no it give credit to a problem some refuse to acknowledge exists. Just like in the other case the cam don't lie. A while ago we seen a cop lie saying someone is going for his taser why do we assume all cops are good guys when it unbelievable amount of evidence and common sense to see that not everyone with a badge should have one. Not saying all cops are bad not even saying race have something to do with it just in my opinion its as clear as day. This was a bad one him and his lying buddies. 

 The problem is real.  It's also overblown by the media to the point that it's leading to a bigger problem.  Out of the millions of arrests and hundreds of millions of citizen contacts a year, you get maybe a couple of cases where the police flat out murder someone.  But it gets so blown up by the media, it would appear that this is something that happens daily, or at least weekly.  That's not the case.  But now you get crap like Mike Brown, who was deservedly shot, Eric Garder, who died of a heart attack while resisting arrest, and Sandra Bland, who hung herself after being rightfully arrested being made martyrs and victims, when in fact they all brought legal police action onto themselves.  The guy that got shot in the back?  He was murdered, and his killer was charged.  This cop has been charged, although the case is not as clear cut.  Charges were brought in the Baltimore case. When police act outside of their legal rights as police officers, they are generally charged.

but here's the bigger problem I was talking about: because of the misguided belief that cops are routinely going around killing black folks for no reason, we're seeing more people running from the cops, disobeying lawful orders from cops, and disrespecting cops.  And if you increase those three things, where you have more cops put in situations where they have to deal with belligerent and disrespectful people, you'll see more videos of officers losing their cool and overreacting.  You'll also have more situations like this case where officers are fearful for their lives (in some instances incorrectly) due to a suspect's behavior, and more people, some undeserving, will be killed.

Edited July 31, 2015 by bullets13

[tvc184]

The guys with the most information see it Clear as day also. I no it give credit to a problem some refuse to acknowledge exists. Just like in the other case the cam don't lie. A while ago we seen a cop lie saying someone is going for his taser why do we assume all cops are good guys when it unbelievable amount of evidence and common sense to see that not everyone with a badge should have one. Not saying all cops are bad not even saying race have something to do with it just in my opinion its as clear as day. This was a bad one him and his lying buddies. 

So it is clear as day because some officers in prior incidents may be guilty?

Got it. Let me use that the next time I arrest or testify against someone. "Well your Honor, I arrested a guy last year in similar circumstances and the guy last year lied ". 

GUILTY!!

...... by association and prejudice without regard for facts. 

[PAMFAM10]

So it is clear as day because some officers in prior incidents may be guilty?

Got it. Let me use that the next time I arrest or testify against someone. "Well your Honor, I arrested a guy last year in similar circumstances and the guy last year lied ". 

GUILTY!!

...... by association and prejudice without regard for facts. 

If that's what I said I said to me to me the video is clear as day. my point was who cares what the officer says in a situation like this. Why wouldn't he say he feared for his life. Just because he says it doesn't make it true. I'm sure the victim feared for his life.