New Cali Law - "No Grand Juries in Police Shootings"

[TxHoops]

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I was discussing this with a law enforcement friend of mine.  Thinks it's a very bad idea.  I understand the spirit of the law but I tend to agree.  Puts a lot of weight on one person.  Interested particularly in tvc's thoughts on this issue.  

[BS Wildcats]

Guess the mob will get to decide

[bullets13]

It's a lot easier to throw good officers under the bus this way.

[LumRaiderFan]

It's a lot easier to throw good officers under the bus this way.

Bullets...are you still moving towards law enforcement?

[tvc184]

I will quote this from the Fourteenth Amendment/Section 1. It has been used to overturn several laws and is sometimes called the "equal protection" amendment, meaning that everyone has to have the same protections and privileges. 

>>>>Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.<<<<

Now we have a law the has one rule for police officers and one rule "for everyone else".

Does that match the Fourteenth Amendments requirement for "equal protection"?

Not in my opinion. It apparently does not even include all government employees, only police officers. 

I guess it depends on which argument a person is trying to make because I continually hear the bogus, "you can indict a ham sandwich". Well if you can indict a sandwich, why not a police officer? In fact officers are indicted and some are serving prison time. 

The article (assuming that it is correct) claims that this was in response to no indictments in Ferguson and New York. Hmmm.... I guess the author Holly Mitchell has reviewed all of the evidence in both of those cases and has rendered her verdict which differs from the actual jurors.

In truth Ms. Mitchell has probably not seen any of the evidence but is merely responding to her belief that if a white officer kills a black person then the officer is guilty and we can't trust the evidence. Facts are no good and wishful thinking and mob rule are the way to go. 

Hopefully some state or federal judge will step in and put a halt to this very soon and then an appeal can overturn it. I sure doesn't seem constitutional to me where we can set aside one set of people based only on a job and have a completely different set of rules for a criminal charges. 

[BLUEDOVE3]

It's a lot easier to throw good officers under the bus this way.

And its easier to let bad cops off. The video age will hopefully expose the bad side as well. Houston was atrocious back in the 70's with plenty of complaints against police officers, but the grand juries very seldom indicted cops. And community police review boards have never seemed to be popular among law enforcement rank & file

[tvc184]

And its easier to let bad cops off. The video age will hopefully expose the bad side as well. Houston was atrocious back in the 70's with plenty of complaints against police officers, but the grand juries very seldom indicted cops. And community police review boards have never seemed to be popular among law enforcement rank & file

Community review boards are usually pushed by someone with an axe to grind and an anti-cop agenda. Why not have a citizens review board for all jobs? 

Ferguson Missouri is a perfect example. I can almost guarantee that Eric Holder and the US DOJ  wanted to find Officer Wilson at fault.  They spent months and hundreds of thousands of dollars to come to the same conclusion that the local DA did almost immediately. Yet there are people that believe that a 10 person citizens  review board  with almost no knowledge of the law can come to a different conclusion. They are probably correct. That is because their conclusion would be based on desire and not facts. 

[bullets13]

Bullets...are you still moving towards law enforcement?

yes sir.  I'm now in the background portion of the hiring phase at PAPD.  Still need some stuff to happen to get on.  Probably 50/50 right now that I get hired, which are pretty good odds  considering how many have been rejected.

[LumRaiderFan]

yes sir.  I'm now in the background portion of the hiring phase at PAPD.  Still need some stuff to happen to get on.  Probably 50/50 right now that I get hired, which are pretty good odds  considering how many have been rejected.

Alright, well good luck.

[BLUEDOVE3]

Community review boards are usually pushed by someone with an axe to grind and an anti-cop agenda. Why not have a citizens review board for all jobs? 

Ferguson Missouri is a perfect example. I can almost guarantee that Eric Holder and the US DOJ  wanted to find Officer Wilson at fault.  They spent months and hundreds of thousands of dollars to come to the same conclusion that the local DA did almost immediately. Yet there are people that believe that a 10 person citizens  review board  with almost no knowledge of the law can come to a different conclusion. They are probably correct. That is because their conclusion would be based on desire and not facts. 

Typical (historical) attitude towards civilian police boards. One of the  biggest complaint against police is the perception that YOU can't police yourselves. Typically citizens interested in having review boards just want to make sure nothing was "left out or thrown down." You know some of yall have those extra guns to throw down.

[BLUEDOVE3]

It's a lot easier to throw good officers under the bus this way.

Well, I expect "free stuff" if I'm pulled over

[tvc184]

Typical (historical) attitude towards civilian police boards. One of the  biggest complaint against police is the perception that YOU can't police yourselves. Typically citizens interested in having review boards just want to make sure nothing was "left out or thrown down." You know some of yall have those extra guns to throw down.

If we are caught on or off duty with a handgun not registered to at the department, we will be disciplined up to termination. That's one of the actual valid reason's listed when the captain in Orange was terminated for shooting the guy while off duty at the car parts store. Even though the DA found no criminal fault, he violated the policy by not having a registered handgun even while off duty. 

There already is a civilian review board. It is called the grand jury. 

The other civilian review board is a civil jury as anyone can file a lawsuit.

when there is a complaint against a doctor then doctors sit in judgment. When complaints are against judges then judges sit in judgment, as an example when a local justice of the peace was filed on locally, the TX Supreme Court sat in review of the case.... and removed him from office. 

Every place that I have ever read about that has a citizen review board (like Austin, TX), the board is merely to share information as they have no legal authority to indict or terminate officers. It is a feel good information exchange. 

 

[BLUEDOVE3]

Yep, thats what you want in police community relations, " a feel good information exchange." Yep, thats what it is all about.

[tvc184]

Yep, thats what you want in police community relations, " a feel good information exchange." Yep, thats what it is all about.

i never said that is what it is all about. That is all they end up being because citizen review boards cannot indict or fire by law. So you have a board that does what? 

Edited August 18, 2015 by tvc184

[BS Wildcats]

i never said that is what it is all about. That is all they end up being because citizen review boards cannot indict or fire by law. So you have a board that does what? 

His board automatically puts all the blame on cops.  Never the criminals fault or the way these kids are being raised.

[prepballfan]

I try to stay off the political board. I however really feel strong about this issue. I am not real sure about who is aligned with what party and do not really care. I am really tired of the bad rap our law officers are getting. Not saying anyone here supports that theory. I am not saying that there are a few bad apples among our law enforcement, but I will never take the side of a criminal. Period. Thankyou to all of our officers who risk there lives each and every day. They are the true American hero's. Next to our military. Thus ends my forey into the political boards. Back to the sports forum

[LumRaiderFan]

I try to stay off the political board. I however really feel strong about this issue. I am not real sure about who is aligned with what party and do not really care. I am really tired of the bad rap our law officers are getting. Not saying anyone here supports that theory. I am not saying that there are a few bad apples among our law enforcement, but I will never take the side of a criminal. Period. Thankyou to all of our officers who risk there lives each and every day. They are the true American hero's. Next to our military. Thus ends my forey into the political boards. Back to the sports forum

Come back anytime. 

[Mr. Buddy Garrity]

I try to stay off the political board. I however really feel strong about this issue. I am not real sure about who is aligned with what party and do not really care. I am really tired of the bad rap our law officers are getting. Not saying anyone here supports that theory. I am not saying that there are a few bad apples among our law enforcement, but I will never take the side of a criminal. Period. Thankyou to all of our officers who risk there lives each and every day. They are the true American hero's. Next to our military. Thus ends my forey into the political boards. Back to the sports forum

good post. 

[thetragichippy]

Come on Prepball......we could use some help.....lol

[Hagar]

I try to stay off the political board. I however really feel strong about this issue. I am not real sure about who is aligned with what party and do not really care. I am really tired of the bad rap our law officers are getting. Not saying anyone here supports that theory. I am not saying that there are a few bad apples among our law enforcement, but I will never take the side of a criminal. Period. Thankyou to all of our officers who risk there lives each and every day. They are the true American hero's. Next to our military. Thus ends my forey into the political boards. Back to the sports forum

Excellent post Pball.  I'd like to encourage you to spend more time on the Political Boards.  You make good points and speak from the heart.  Besides, you used numerous three and four syllable words, which would only confuse and intimidate them Crosby folks lol