What is going on in Oregon?!!

[Mr. Buddy Garrity]

This is pathetic. @ABC: Peaceful protest followed by Oregon wildlife refuge action:

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@NOLAnews: Militia occupies wildlife refuge building in Oregon in support of accused ranchers

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Peaceful protest my arse, a bunch of dumbarses 

[Mr. Buddy Garrity]

@CBSNews: Oregon ranchers reject Cliven Bundy family occupation of federal building on their behalf

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[Mr. Buddy Garrity]

@CBSNews: Armed militia takeover of Oregon wildlife refuge sparks debate on meaning of "terrorist"

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[77]

Folks are getting tired of the govt. take over by crooked politicians. 

[stevenash]

A new version of Occupy Wall Street but without drugs, tents, and people defecating everywhere

Edited January 3, 2016 by stevenash

[Mr. Buddy Garrity]

A new version of Occupy Wall Street but without drugs, tents, and people defecating everywhere

just guns and threatening law enforcement, no big deal right? 

[PN-G bamatex]

This occupation is totally out of line. The Bundy family has gone a step too far. Technically, they've committed an act of insurrection against the United States, which is wholly out of proportion to the government action they're protesting.

That said, the argument that the government's reaction to this as opposed to the reactions in Ferguson and Baltimore represents a double standard is total crap.

Let's boil this down to the facts. The Bundys and their accomplices have occupied a building on federal property, and uploaded a YouTube video calling for others to join them in their occupation. Most of the others who they've called upon to join them have rejected the request and denounced the action; indeed, the overwhelming majority of them were remarkably peaceful in carrying out the protest that preceded this seizure. The Bundys themselves have damaged no property, and injured no person. They've held not one person against his or her will. They're likely well armed, but as of yet haven't fired a single shot. When you get right down to it, all they've done is take over a small federal building in the middle of nowhere, which is responsible for performing no vital government function and is of little to no importance, while spewing angry rhetoric that targets no specific person and conveys no threat. Granted, in principle, this takeover is a serious violation which should be taken seriously. In practice, however, it's less than a minor inconvenience.

In Baltimore, on the other hand, no buildings were seized, they were just looted and burned instead. On the night of April 27, 2015, alone, the Baltimore riots resulted in 144 vehicle fires and 19 structural fires. One innocent bystander was injured by the widespread arson, and numerous police officers suffered broken bones and other injuries while bricks and other objects were hurled at them as they attempted to control the crowds.  More than 200 people were arrested for various criminal activities. Unlike Baltimore, where the unrest was contained to a matter of days, the unrest in Ferguson cropped up at various points over the course of a full year. During the worst of the rioting in the last 10 days of November, 2014, at least one person was shot and burned, more than a dozen buildings were burned, and over 150 people were arrested for various criminal acts. As both a matter of principle and a matter of practice, the riots in Baltimore and Ferguson were decidedly more severe, more costly, more dangerous, more injurious and in every way more significant incidents of lawlessness.

The punishment must fit the crime. The reaction must be roughly equal and opposite the original action. In Maryland and in Missouri, the state governments reacted with appropriate force to prolonged and severe periods of chaos and destruction. In Oregon, we have yet to reach that stage, and may not; personally, I find it hard to believe that a bunch of ranchers with real world responsibilities will actually occupy that federal building for "years" as they claim or even more than a few days. In any case, Oregon is not analogous to Baltimore and Ferguson at this time. Likewise, the reactions shouldn't be, either. Any comparison which assumes that they should be is factually unfounded.

 

 

Edited January 4, 2016 by PN-G bamatex

[Mr. Buddy Garrity]

This occupation is totally out of line. The Bundy family has gone a step too far. Technically, they've committed an act of insurrection against the United States, which is wholly out of proportion to the government action they're protesting.

That said, the argument that the government's reaction to this as opposed to the reactions in Ferguson and Baltimore represents a double standard is total crap.

Let's boil this down to the facts. The Bundys and their accomplices have occupied a building on federal property, and uploaded a YouTube video calling for others to join them in their occupation. Most of the others who they've called upon to join them have rejected the request and denounced the action; indeed, the overwhelming majority of them were remarkably peaceful in carrying out the protest that preceded this seizure. The Bundys themselves have damaged no property, and injured no person. They've held not one person against his or her will. They're likely well armed, but as of yet haven't fired a single shot. When you get right down to it, all they've done is take over a small federal building in the middle of nowhere, which is responsible for performing no vital government function and is of little to no importance, while spewing angry rhetoric that targets no specific person and conveys no threat. Granted, in principle, this takeover is a serious violation which should be taken seriously. In practice, however, it's less than a minor inconvenience.

In Baltimore, on the other hand, no buildings were seized, they were just looted and burned instead. On the night of April 27, 2015, alone, the Baltimore riots resulted in 144 vehicle fires and 19 structural fires. One innocent bystander was injured by the widespread arson, and numerous police officers suffered broken bones and other injuries while bricks and other objects were hurled at them as they attempted to control the crowds.  More than 200 people were arrested for various criminal activities. Unlike Baltimore, where the unrest was contained to a matter of days, the unrest in Ferguson cropped up at various points over the course of a full year. During the worst of the rioting in the last 10 days of November, 2014, at least one person was shot and burned, more than a dozen buildings were burned, and over 150 people were arrested for various criminal acts. As both a matter of principle and a matter of practice, the riots in Baltimore and Ferguson were decidedly more severe, more costly, more dangerous, more injurious and in every way more significant incidents of lawlessness.

The punishment must fit the crime. The reaction must be roughly equal and opposite the original action. In Maryland and in Missouri, the state governments reacted with appropriate force to prolonged and severe periods of chaos and destruction. In Oregon, we have yet to reach that stage, and may not; personally, I find it hard to believe that a bunch of ranchers with real world responsibilities will actually occupy that federal building for "years" as they claim or even more than a few days. In any case, at this time, Oregon is not analogous to Baltimore and Ferguson at this time. Likewise, the reactions shouldn't be, either. Any comparison which assumes that they should be is factually unfounded.

 

 

a bunch of dumbarses in all instances, period. 

[stevenash]

just guns and threatening law enforcement, no big deal right? 

Does it remind you of this chant (threat)?  " What do we want?- Dead cops- When do we want it?- Now!!

[Mr. Buddy Garrity]

Does it remind you of this chant (threat)?  " What do we want?- Dead cops- When do we want it?- Now!!

reminds me of ppl being dumbarses. 

[stevenash]

Cant argue with that

[PN-G bamatex]

a bunch of dumbarses in all instances, period. 

Dumbarses, yes, but they have not all done equally dumb and violent things.

[Mr. Buddy Garrity]

Dumbarses, yes, but they have not all done equally dumb and violent things.

i wont defend them, dumbarses in my book period. 

[PAMFAM10]

thugs no doubt if it was a different group doing the same for what they view as unjustice the national guard would already been called in. that's just my honest opinion... . imagine if they were Muslim. 

Thugs terrorist peaceful protesters. three different labels for three different groups of people. 

[LumRaiderFan]

Dumbarses, yes, but they have not all done equally dumb and violent things.

Exactly right!

[stevenash]

thugs no doubt if it was a different group doing the same for what they view as unjustice the national guard would already been called in. that's just my honest opinion... . imagine if they were Muslim. 

Thugs terrorist peaceful protesters. three different labels for three different groups of people. 

Pamfam- How many people do you think will be killed by these folks?  How many buildings and businesses will be burned and looted?

[PAMFAM10]

Pamfam- How many people do you think will be killed by these folks?  How many buildings and businesses will be burned and looted?

Thats not the point the point is if they were black or Muslim the national guard would have been already called in and words like thugs and terrorist would be tossed around. And yes I'm talking about under the exact same circumstances. 

 

question for you how many will be arrested tear gassed etc. 

THATS REALITY YOU KNOW IT. 

Turn it to any major news channel and tell me how long you had to wait for just a mention of the situation. 

Armed Thugs /Terrorist over take U.S. government building. Tell me this headline wouldn't be plastered on all airways right now.

[LumRaiderFan]

Pamfam- How many people do you think will be killed by these folks?  How many buildings and businesses will be burned and looted?

I'll take a guess...none.

Maybe the fed gov has no business controlling/owning large blocks of land and people are tired of their nonsensical management practices.

[stevenash]

Thats not the point the point is if they were black or Muslim the national guard would have been already called in and words like thugs and terrorist would be tossed around. And yes I'm talking about under the exact same circumstances. 

 

question for you how many will be arrested tear gassed etc. 

THATS REALITY YOU KNOW IT. 

Turn it to any major news channel and tell me how long you had to wait for just a mention of the situation. 

Armed Thugs /Terrorist over take U.S. government building. Tell me this headline wouldn't be plastered on all airways right now.

Sorry, but if you have a reputation for killing and looting, when you protest in that manner, yes its going to be described differently. 

[77]

How many cops have been assassinated by this group in Oregon? I know several have been killed by the BLM crowd! 

[PAMFAM10]

We can go back and forth all day. The fact remains if different groups were actively protesting in the manner that these people are. It would be a way different ball game. And we all know exactly why. armed with guns in a government building. Why aren't they seen as a treat to the U.S. why the news stations not covering the story.

People will go great length to reject the truth. because we all know the truth and it's ugly. 

[PN-G bamatex]

thugs no doubt if it was a different group doing the same for what they view as unjustice the national guard would already been called in. 

Are you really sure about that?

I've already talked about the inherent differences between this situation and the Baltimore and Ferguson riots. Now let's talk about a situation that's about as closely analogous to Oregon as I can find: Waller County after the death of Sandra Bland.

Members of the Black Lives Matter movement, the New Black Panther Party and various other black activism groups spent weeks in front of the Waller County Jail in the wake of Sandra Bland's death. They didn't riot as was the case in Baltimore and Ferguson; they were decidedly more peaceful. Much like the Bundys in Oregon, though, they carried around rifles and other firearms in an open and intimidating manner, using angry rhetoric and calling for others to join them. There are really only two differences between Oregon and Waller County: where the Bundys seized the building, the Sandra Bland protesters stayed in the parking lot, and where the Bundys have only called for "fellow patriots" to "stand up to the federal government," we know for a fact that the Sandra Bland protesters openly called for the murder of police officers with eerie and unsettling, albeit impersonal, specificity.

Did the Waller County Sheriff's Department, or any other Texas law enforcement agency for that matter, make any move that would inhibit or disperse the Sandra Bland protesters? No. Not at all, in fact. While those protests lasted for days, the Waller County Sheriff's Department remained largely disengaged from it and went about business as usual. About the only difference between the two reactions has been the amount of media attention devoted to the two of them; the Bundys have gotten an incredible amount while the Sandra Bland protesters got little to none.

The bottom line is, excessive force wasn't called for in Waller County, and it isn't called for at the moment in Oregon. It was called for in Baltimore and Ferguson. This isn't a matter of race, it's a matter of the actions the groups have taken. Nothing the protesters did in Waller County warranted a forced dispersal, nor does anything the protesters in Oregon have done yet. The things done by the rioters in Baltimore and Ferguson did.

Edited January 4, 2016 by PN-G bamatex

[Bigdog]

Ok, explain Ruby Ridge or the Branch Davidians (Waco) incident?

[PAMFAM10]

if the black live matters group was armed and took over the building then it would be different. How is it even debatable that armed men who took over a federal building. should not be seen as armed and dangerous. I stand by what I said and dare anyone to answer.  if this were blacks or Muslim. would they still have no visible cops outside would the leader be holding press conferences. would the media pretend that this is no big deal. Why come armed if you plan to be peaceful. You break the law in that fashion your a thug. No way around it. 

[LumRaiderFan]

Ok, explain Ruby Ridge or the Branch Davidians (Waco) incident?

I thought of these same two events when I first read the thread and the claims being made...no Muslims or Blacks involved in that murderous action from our fed gov.